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I'm going to miss pushshift, their service was valuable for catching reddit moderators performing underhanded censorship of posts they didn't agree with. Reddit

I'm going to miss pushshift, their service was valuable for catching reddit moderators performing underhanded censorship of posts they didn't agree with. Reddit is walking a thin line between becoming a dumpster fire and being the one stop shop for a good portion of the worlds interaction. I would personally prefer to see reddit kick all of their moderators to the curb and stop catering to the snowflakes of the world.

MisterBastahrd 3y ago
This sentiment will forever fall on deaf ears because starting new subs cost you nothing but time and energy. I used to be a moderator on a fair number of subs with 30K+ members that I started from scratch based on that exact mentality. Nobody owes you an audience.
- lmm 3y ago
  Doubt. Whenever a sub gets big enough the same cabal of powermods appears in the moderator list, as if by magic. They don't always replace the existing moderators but they do get added.
  - nullc 3y ago
    has to be pretty big before that happens.
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    What? You know that moderator lists are public. This does not happen. As a mod of a >700K user sub, I call bullshit.
    - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      I've seen sub-reddits with moderator lists hidden for the safety of the moderators, or because there are too many moderators to list. How are these public?
      - Eisenstein 3y ago
        Name some of those 'moderator list unknown' subs. I have never seen such a thing. Regardless, they are all accessible via API.
        anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        It's been too long since I've frequented Reddit, but I do recall them. Reddit even has an official policy of hiding moderator lists of some sub-reddits: https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360049499032-Why-is-the-moderator-list-hidden- https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/36004949903... An API may be technically public, but not for the hoi polloi. I would expect Reddit would bar API access for moderator lists that it has officially hidden.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        > An API may be technically public, but not for the hoi polloi. I would expect Reddit would bar API access for moderator lists that it has officially hidden. So what? If you are going to claim something as true you can't just say 'but the data was too hard to access so I claimed it anyway'. I call bullshit on the parent's claim and no one has said anything to prove otherwise.
  - MisterBastahrd 3y ago
    They get added because the head mod adds them. That's all it takes. The head mod is god in his sub as long as he doesn't break any official reddit rules.
    - lmm 3y ago
      A user who no-one likes and not even the mods will defend suddenly appears in the mod list, and the head mod who would previously explain all decisions in detail is suddenly silent. I don't know if the admins add the new mods directly or lean on the subreddit mods to add them, but something's going on.
ericmcer 3y ago
Is it going away?
- CameronNemo 3y ago
  AIUI changes to reddit's API have made Pushshift unsustainable. Edit: see here for the full details, from the reddit admins' POV: https://old.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/134tjpe/reddit_data_api_update_changes_to_pushshift_access/ https://old.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/134tjpe/reddit_dat...
  - sodality2 3y ago
    Those changes haven't been put into effect yet, though. It's "coming".
  - ericmcer 3y ago
    nuts, I have a little app that relies on it. It is still working atm and returning results from a few seconds ago but that sucks. I was also always baffled how pushshift API is so superior to the Reddit API. AFAIK it is running for ~$1k/mo. Locking down APIs like this could lead to way more scrapers which is expensive for everyone involved. I guess the number of people who know how to hit an API endpoint is way higher than the number who can setup a Selenium type scraper that runs JS and circumvents protections.
- nanidin 3y ago
  Yes, it is no longer available from pushshift (presumably due to pressure from Reddit.) The historical data is now only available via torrent.
  - ranting-moth 3y ago
    Link?
    - nanidin 3y ago
      The torrent is the submitted link for this post.
Dalewyn 3y ago
It became a dumpster fire well over a decade ago and has never recovered since. Even the site administration is in on the act, lest we forget spez editing the database to modify users' comments with no indication.
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13029136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13029136
- Lammy 3y ago
  > It became a dumpster fire well over a decade ago Relevant: “Containment Control for a Social Network with State-Dependent Connectivity” (2014), Air Force Research Laboratory, Eglin AFB: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644.pdf …a.k.a Reddit's "Most-Addicted City" of 2013: https://web.archive.org/web/20160604042751/http://www.redditblog.com/2013/05/get-ready-for-global-reddit-meetup-day.html https://web.archive.org/web/20160604042751/http://www.reddit...
- Zamicol 3y ago
  This is why user comments need to be cryptographically signed. Cryptography prevents this sort of nefarious and hidden corruption.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    Cryptography means precisely nothing if you can't trust the cryptographer.
  - ed25519FUUU 3y ago
    Reddit is simply not that important.
menus 3y ago
Reddit has always walked "a thin line between becoming a dumpster fire and being the one stop shop for a good portion of the worlds interaction" (1) (2). It is up to you to figure out how you want your experience to be. (1) https://slate.com/technology/2014/04/reddit-and-the-boston-marathon-bombings-how-the-site-reckoned-with-its-own-power.html https://slate.com/technology/2014/04/reddit-and-the-boston-m... (2) https://www.vox.com/2015/6/11/8767035/fatpeoplehate-reddit-ban https://www.vox.com/2015/6/11/8767035/fatpeoplehate-reddit-b... > I would personally prefer to see reddit kick all of their moderators to the curb and stop catering to the snowflakes of the world. I'm sorry about your experiences with whatever moderators you have a beef with. My guess is you are talking about large subreddit(s). Large subreddits have their issues with transparency I agree but what are you trying to suggest? Reddit-appointed moderators? If so, you are in for a rude awakening. I would instead spend effort in stopping them from charging third party apps for API access that are objectively better than the official apps and ensuring that they dont kill old.reddit.com (3) like they killed i.reddit.com (3) https://old.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/12qwagm/an_update_regarding_reddits_api/ https://old.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/12qwagm/an_update_r...
- thr-nrg 3y ago
  [dead]
- senttoschool 3y ago
  >Large subreddits have their issues with transparency I agree but what are you trying to suggest? Reddit-appointed moderators? If so, you are in for a rude awakening. I would create a system where moderators have far less power, and that Subreddit members can vote on rules, posts being deleted, etc. The system would be much more democratic. Members would also be able to challenge moderator actions or even reverse moderator actions. As of right now, Reddit has a problem where moderators have too much power. On top of that, moderators aren't being paid so they can't be controlled.
  - Chico75 3y ago
    Maybe it's a good thing that they can't be controlled?
threeseed 3y ago
> stop catering to the snowflakes of the world Those snowflakes include Apple, Google and non-US governments who aren't interested in the "anything goes" version of free speech. So if Reddit cares about having a mobile app or operating at all then they need moderation. Or lest we forget Reddit's good old days of doxxing, child porn, snuff porn, drug dealing etc.
- the_doctah 3y ago
  Unfortunately Reddit moved past "slippery slope" censorship and went to full on avalanche. "Hate speech" censorship apologists are the worst, by the way.
  - seattle_spring 3y ago
    Sounds like someone is mad that their hate speech got censored.
    - the_doctah 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - fugalfervor 3y ago
        Those two insults aren't even consistent with each other.
        the_doctah 3y ago
        You aren't wrong
  - threeseed 3y ago
    Reddit is a business not a charity. If you want advertisers and be able to operate legally around the world then you need moderation.
the_doctah 3y ago
Reddit has censored themselves into absurdity. I literally can't read the front page without being logged in anymore because it's actually just all propaganda from top to bottom. At least the site was usable during this cached period, but that version of reddit is totally gone now. The fact that they used to tout free speech is hard to believe these days.
- teaearlgraycold 3y ago
  Yeah. Absolutely loaded with Ukrainian propaganda. Granted, I want Russia to lose the war they started.
  - senttoschool 3y ago
    Reddit hive mind latches onto feel good stories but ignores logic and history. Everything is black and white, good and evil to the average Redditor. It's best to avoid Reddit front page and large subs. PS. Reddit's transparent upvote system highly encourages popular and feel good opinions at the expense of accuracy. You can write a quality post backed by peer reviewed science but still get downvoted if it doesn't fit within a sub's consensus opinion.
    - conradfr 3y ago
      The vote system became a lot more useless the day they removed the upvote/downvote counter.
  - ed25519FUUU 3y ago
    Pro-war propaganda is the right way to look at it. The USA profits from a protracted war in Ukraine. All of that money we send just goes right back into the military industrial complex.
    - jazzyjackson 3y ago
      I mean, on the whole we profit more by having a cheap source of competent labor adjacent to europe, but that doesn't stop the military-industrial-congressional complex from making sales.
renewiltord 3y ago
This is a total misunderstanding of the way Reddit works. If you don't like the moderation and enough people agree with you, you can just go start your own subreddit. All it is is an SSO and identity solution across multiple communities. If you don't like the moderators, you can start your own subreddit. It's actually perfect because lots of people complain about "the power-hungry mods" but in the end, very few of those could do any better, which is why there are a few schism subreddits do well. Ultimately, Reddit is the master of "show me the money". You think you could do better? Then do better. There's nothing stopping you. Just outcompete them in the marketplace of ideas. You can start a subreddit and pay moderators. No one will get upset.
- Zamicol 3y ago
  The systemic suppression and censorship on Reddit is overwhelming. It's not limited to a few "communities", it's the entire system. Data scientist/activist Robert Hawkins has been working at quantifying the degree for which Reddit attempts to manipulate opinions globally. https://twitter.com/rhaksw https://twitter.com/rhaksw (See his Youtube explainer about work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCadmiIfbcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCadmiIfbcI) For another wider perspective, see the article: "Leaked documents outline DHS’s plans to police disinformation" https://theintercept.com/2022/10/31/social-media-disinformation-dhs https://theintercept.com/2022/10/31/social-media-disinformat... I'd hope after Snowden we'd know better. It's painful to see the same old tricks working so well.
- wincy 3y ago
  Totally true! Which is why there’s a healthy conservative portion that’s on Reddit, and r/theDonald one of the largest thriving communities there is. Oh wait, that’s not true at all. These are just empty lies and niceties that don’t stand up to scrutiny. Reddit has weaponized information and is just another tool of propaganda.
  - renewiltord 3y ago
    Sure sure, that's true. The highly controversial subjects Reddit is not good for. I assumed he was talking about something like lawn care or something. It's definitely not the place to go for neutral political organization.
fugalfervor 3y ago
> the snowflakes of the world Please enjoy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law?wprov=sfla1
devd00d 3y ago
You are 100% correct. I know of hordes of people being banned for the most ridiculous reasons. And it's always a power-hungry mod. And it would be fine if they were just banned from a sub, but I've seen guys get banned completely for the most stupidest reasons.
lispm 3y ago
I would hope that they censor lots of stuff, especially when they are legally required to do so. There are a lot of more cases that just "snowflakes".
imtemplain 3y ago
[dead]

MisterBastahrd 3y ago

This sentiment will forever fall on deaf ears because starting new subs cost you nothing but time and energy. I used to be a moderator on a fair number of subs with 30K+ members that I started from scratch based on that exact mentality. Nobody owes you an audience.

lmm 3y ago
Doubt. Whenever a sub gets big enough the same cabal of powermods appears in the moderator list, as if by magic. They don't always replace the existing moderators but they do get added.
- nullc 3y ago
  has to be pretty big before that happens.
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  What? You know that moderator lists are public. This does not happen. As a mod of a >700K user sub, I call bullshit.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    I've seen sub-reddits with moderator lists hidden for the safety of the moderators, or because there are too many moderators to list. How are these public?
    - Eisenstein 3y ago
      Name some of those 'moderator list unknown' subs. I have never seen such a thing. Regardless, they are all accessible via API.
      - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        It's been too long since I've frequented Reddit, but I do recall them. Reddit even has an official policy of hiding moderator lists of some sub-reddits: https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360049499032-Why-is-the-moderator-list-hidden- https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/36004949903... An API may be technically public, but not for the hoi polloi. I would expect Reddit would bar API access for moderator lists that it has officially hidden.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        > An API may be technically public, but not for the hoi polloi. I would expect Reddit would bar API access for moderator lists that it has officially hidden. So what? If you are going to claim something as true you can't just say 'but the data was too hard to access so I claimed it anyway'. I call bullshit on the parent's claim and no one has said anything to prove otherwise.
- MisterBastahrd 3y ago
  They get added because the head mod adds them. That's all it takes. The head mod is god in his sub as long as he doesn't break any official reddit rules.
  - lmm 3y ago
    A user who no-one likes and not even the mods will defend suddenly appears in the mod list, and the head mod who would previously explain all decisions in detail is suddenly silent. I don't know if the admins add the new mods directly or lean on the subreddit mods to add them, but something's going on.

ericmcer 3y ago

Is it going away?

CameronNemo 3y ago
AIUI changes to reddit's API have made Pushshift unsustainable. Edit: see here for the full details, from the reddit admins' POV: https://old.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/134tjpe/reddit_data_api_update_changes_to_pushshift_access/ https://old.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/134tjpe/reddit_dat...
- sodality2 3y ago
  Those changes haven't been put into effect yet, though. It's "coming".
- ericmcer 3y ago
  nuts, I have a little app that relies on it. It is still working atm and returning results from a few seconds ago but that sucks. I was also always baffled how pushshift API is so superior to the Reddit API. AFAIK it is running for ~$1k/mo. Locking down APIs like this could lead to way more scrapers which is expensive for everyone involved. I guess the number of people who know how to hit an API endpoint is way higher than the number who can setup a Selenium type scraper that runs JS and circumvents protections.
nanidin 3y ago
Yes, it is no longer available from pushshift (presumably due to pressure from Reddit.) The historical data is now only available via torrent.
- ranting-moth 3y ago
  Link?
  - nanidin 3y ago
    The torrent is the submitted link for this post.

Dalewyn 3y ago

It became a dumpster fire well over a decade ago and has never recovered since. Even the site administration is in on the act, lest we forget spez editing the database to modify users' comments with no indication.

zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
[flagged]
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13029136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13029136
Lammy 3y ago
> It became a dumpster fire well over a decade ago Relevant: “Containment Control for a Social Network with State-Dependent Connectivity” (2014), Air Force Research Laboratory, Eglin AFB: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644.pdf …a.k.a Reddit's "Most-Addicted City" of 2013: https://web.archive.org/web/20160604042751/http://www.redditblog.com/2013/05/get-ready-for-global-reddit-meetup-day.html https://web.archive.org/web/20160604042751/http://www.reddit...
Zamicol 3y ago
This is why user comments need to be cryptographically signed. Cryptography prevents this sort of nefarious and hidden corruption.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Cryptography means precisely nothing if you can't trust the cryptographer.
- ed25519FUUU 3y ago
  Reddit is simply not that important.

menus 3y ago

Reddit has always walked "a thin line between becoming a dumpster fire and being the one stop shop for a good portion of the worlds interaction" (1) (2). It is up to you to figure out how you want your experience to be. (1) https://slate.com/technology/2014/04/reddit-and-the-boston-marathon-bombings-how-the-site-reckoned-with-its-own-power.html https://slate.com/technology/2014/04/reddit-and-the-boston-m... (2) https://www.vox.com/2015/6/11/8767035/fatpeoplehate-reddit-ban https://www.vox.com/2015/6/11/8767035/fatpeoplehate-reddit-b... > I would personally prefer to see reddit kick all of their moderators to the curb and stop catering to the snowflakes of the world. I'm sorry about your experiences with whatever moderators you have a beef with. My guess is you are talking about large subreddit(s). Large subreddits have their issues with transparency I agree but what are you trying to suggest? Reddit-appointed moderators? If so, you are in for a rude awakening. I would instead spend effort in stopping them from charging third party apps for API access that are objectively better than the official apps and ensuring that they dont kill old.reddit.com (3) like they killed i.reddit.com (3) https://old.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/12qwagm/an_update_regarding_reddits_api/ https://old.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/12qwagm/an_update_r...

thr-nrg 3y ago
[dead]
senttoschool 3y ago
>Large subreddits have their issues with transparency I agree but what are you trying to suggest? Reddit-appointed moderators? If so, you are in for a rude awakening. I would create a system where moderators have far less power, and that Subreddit members can vote on rules, posts being deleted, etc. The system would be much more democratic. Members would also be able to challenge moderator actions or even reverse moderator actions. As of right now, Reddit has a problem where moderators have too much power. On top of that, moderators aren't being paid so they can't be controlled.
- Chico75 3y ago
  Maybe it's a good thing that they can't be controlled?

threeseed 3y ago

> stop catering to the snowflakes of the world Those snowflakes include Apple, Google and non-US governments who aren't interested in the "anything goes" version of free speech. So if Reddit cares about having a mobile app or operating at all then they need moderation. Or lest we forget Reddit's good old days of doxxing, child porn, snuff porn, drug dealing etc.

the_doctah 3y ago
Unfortunately Reddit moved past "slippery slope" censorship and went to full on avalanche. "Hate speech" censorship apologists are the worst, by the way.
- seattle_spring 3y ago
  Sounds like someone is mad that their hate speech got censored.
  - the_doctah 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - fugalfervor 3y ago
      Those two insults aren't even consistent with each other.
      - the_doctah 3y ago
        You aren't wrong
- threeseed 3y ago
  Reddit is a business not a charity. If you want advertisers and be able to operate legally around the world then you need moderation.

the_doctah 3y ago

Reddit has censored themselves into absurdity. I literally can't read the front page without being logged in anymore because it's actually just all propaganda from top to bottom. At least the site was usable during this cached period, but that version of reddit is totally gone now. The fact that they used to tout free speech is hard to believe these days.

teaearlgraycold 3y ago
Yeah. Absolutely loaded with Ukrainian propaganda. Granted, I want Russia to lose the war they started.
- senttoschool 3y ago
  Reddit hive mind latches onto feel good stories but ignores logic and history. Everything is black and white, good and evil to the average Redditor. It's best to avoid Reddit front page and large subs. PS. Reddit's transparent upvote system highly encourages popular and feel good opinions at the expense of accuracy. You can write a quality post backed by peer reviewed science but still get downvoted if it doesn't fit within a sub's consensus opinion.
  - conradfr 3y ago
    The vote system became a lot more useless the day they removed the upvote/downvote counter.
- ed25519FUUU 3y ago
  Pro-war propaganda is the right way to look at it. The USA profits from a protracted war in Ukraine. All of that money we send just goes right back into the military industrial complex.
  - jazzyjackson 3y ago
    I mean, on the whole we profit more by having a cheap source of competent labor adjacent to europe, but that doesn't stop the military-industrial-congressional complex from making sales.

renewiltord 3y ago

This is a total misunderstanding of the way Reddit works. If you don't like the moderation and enough people agree with you, you can just go start your own subreddit. All it is is an SSO and identity solution across multiple communities. If you don't like the moderators, you can start your own subreddit. It's actually perfect because lots of people complain about "the power-hungry mods" but in the end, very few of those could do any better, which is why there are a few schism subreddits do well. Ultimately, Reddit is the master of "show me the money". You think you could do better? Then do better. There's nothing stopping you. Just outcompete them in the marketplace of ideas. You can start a subreddit and pay moderators. No one will get upset.

Zamicol 3y ago
The systemic suppression and censorship on Reddit is overwhelming. It's not limited to a few "communities", it's the entire system. Data scientist/activist Robert Hawkins has been working at quantifying the degree for which Reddit attempts to manipulate opinions globally. https://twitter.com/rhaksw https://twitter.com/rhaksw (See his Youtube explainer about work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCadmiIfbcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCadmiIfbcI) For another wider perspective, see the article: "Leaked documents outline DHS’s plans to police disinformation" https://theintercept.com/2022/10/31/social-media-disinformation-dhs https://theintercept.com/2022/10/31/social-media-disinformat... I'd hope after Snowden we'd know better. It's painful to see the same old tricks working so well.
wincy 3y ago
Totally true! Which is why there’s a healthy conservative portion that’s on Reddit, and r/theDonald one of the largest thriving communities there is. Oh wait, that’s not true at all. These are just empty lies and niceties that don’t stand up to scrutiny. Reddit has weaponized information and is just another tool of propaganda.
- renewiltord 3y ago
  Sure sure, that's true. The highly controversial subjects Reddit is not good for. I assumed he was talking about something like lawn care or something. It's definitely not the place to go for neutral political organization.

fugalfervor 3y ago

> the snowflakes of the world Please enjoy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law?wprov=sfla1

devd00d 3y ago

You are 100% correct. I know of hordes of people being banned for the most ridiculous reasons. And it's always a power-hungry mod. And it would be fine if they were just banned from a sub, but I've seen guys get banned completely for the most stupidest reasons.

lispm 3y ago

I would hope that they censor lots of stuff, especially when they are legally required to do so. There are a lot of more cases that just "snowflakes".

imtemplain 3y ago

[dead]