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The vast majority of the consumption isn't personal, it's silly agricultural use like growing alfalfa and almonds in the desert. 80% of the Colorado River wate

The vast majority of the consumption isn't personal, it's silly agricultural use like growing alfalfa and almonds in the desert. 80% of the Colorado River water usage is agricultural. [1] Forget not drinking water or taking a shower - eat one less steak or skip a handful of almonds. That's where all the water is actually going. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/12/colorado-drought-water-alfalfa-farmers-conservation https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/12/colorado...

rektide 3y ago
As horrible usages of water ad those are, it seems like significantly more water is used on also very inefficient meat production. I would love a better breakdown of what exactly California & the west's agricultural water usage is.
- thc-27182 3y ago
  [flagged]
- njovin 3y ago
  This article has a good breakdown of where the Colorado's water goes. TL;DR: - 55% goes to livestock feed (hay, alfafa, etc.) - 11% cotton - 14% other food crops - 4% thermoelectric power - 4% commercial & industrial - 12% residential I'd be further interested to know how much of each of those are exported (the article mentions that a 2020 study estimated 10-12% of all US livestock feed crops are exported). It seems ridiculous that we're putting the economic benefits of exporting these crops against the long-term sustainability of citizens living in the region.
DennisP 3y ago
In Arizona, it's not even the US consumption. They're selling the alfafa to Saudi Arabia, which won't grow it itself because it uses too much water. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudi-company-fondomonte-arizona-ground-water-crop-alfalfa/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudi-company-fondomonte-arizon...
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  Well of course they won’t grow it. They’re in a desert and that would be ridiculous! /joke
  - manquer 3y ago
    Interestingly Saudi Arabia has been super wasteful of their water too. They have all but drained their aquifers that takes thousands of years to replenish in a bid to become self sufficient in their food supplies. Now they are taking some corrective action with investing more in desalination, reducing certain type of agricultural produce etc.
    - prottog 3y ago
      One of the theoretical advantages of an absolute monarchy or any other totalitarian form of government is that it should be able to make unpopular decisions (i.e. prevent the people from accessing groundwater resources) that are good in the long run (i.e. the aquifers don't all run out within a few decades). Strange how that plays out in reality.
      - reducesuffering 3y ago
        They would've if they took the Chinese approach to gradually improve the standard of living organically through productivity improvements and education. Saudi Arabia instead immediately skyrocketed their standard of living far past what the population can do productively without oil. Populations don't take well to huge standard of living decreases that are inevitable when oil $ runs out to subsidize everything in the state enormously.
        kibwen 3y ago
        > They would've if they took the Chinese approach to gradually improve the standard of living organically through productivity improvements and education. Well, since the topic is authoritarianism, note that the Chinese approach resulted in a few tens of millions dead, which is worse than what the Saudis have managed so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward
Infernal 3y ago
>eat one less steak or skip a handful of almonds At least in the case of Arizonan desert alfalfa, this is a result of sweetheart lease deals offered to Saudis with no limits on groundwater access, who are effectively exporting Arizona’s aquifers in the form of livestock feed. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudi-company-fondomonte-arizona-ground-water-crop-alfalfa/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudi-company-fondomonte-arizon...
- markfeathers 3y ago
  As I understand their water rights were recently revoked: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/arizona/articles/2023-04-22/water-permits-for-saudi-arabia-owned-farm-in-arizona-revoked https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/arizona/articles/202...
  - Dig1t 3y ago
    >has rescinded drilling permits This is just saying that they had the right to drill MORE wells revoked, presumably they already have wells that will continue to pump water out of the ground. >reported that the new wells would have pumped up to 3,000 gallons (11,000 liters) of water per minute. That is an insane amount of water.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      The entire flow of the Mississippi: > At Lake Itasca, the average flow rate is 6 cubic feet per second. At Upper St. Anthony Falls in Minneapolis, the northern most Lock and Dam, the average flow rate is 12,000 cubic feet per second or 89,869 gallons per second. At New Orleans, the average flow rate is 600,000 cubic feet per second.
grumple 3y ago
Farmers seem to disagree with the "almonds bad" narrative: https://farmtogether.com/learn/blog/dispelling-miconceptions-about-almonds-water-use https://farmtogether.com/learn/blog/dispelling-miconceptions... In addition to the reasons they list, I'd like to point out that Almonds are actually native to the desert in Iran and the Levant. I've found them in the wild while hiking in the desert in the middle east.
- bombcar 3y ago
  This is one of those “but where does the water go” questions that have to be answered to determine the true effect. Eg - if ten gallons per almond is true, and one goes to evaporation and nine into the aquifer it’s much different than if five evaporate, four run off into the ocean, and one sinks into the ground.
Tangurena2 3y ago
Utah has a similar problem. The governor has an alfalfa farm yet has gotten on TV to demand that Utahns pray for rain. 80% of Utah's water consumption is agricultural. If the governor wanted to reduce Utah's water problem, he should start by putting his money where his mouth is, and stop growing such an abusive crop. Unlike Arizona, it appears that much of Utah's alfalfa crop gets exported to China.

rektide 3y ago

As horrible usages of water ad those are, it seems like significantly more water is used on also very inefficient meat production. I would love a better breakdown of what exactly California & the west's agricultural water usage is.

thc-27182 3y ago
[flagged]
njovin 3y ago
This article has a good breakdown of where the Colorado's water goes. TL;DR: - 55% goes to livestock feed (hay, alfafa, etc.) - 11% cotton - 14% other food crops - 4% thermoelectric power - 4% commercial & industrial - 12% residential I'd be further interested to know how much of each of those are exported (the article mentions that a 2020 study estimated 10-12% of all US livestock feed crops are exported). It seems ridiculous that we're putting the economic benefits of exporting these crops against the long-term sustainability of citizens living in the region.

DennisP 3y ago

In Arizona, it's not even the US consumption. They're selling the alfafa to Saudi Arabia, which won't grow it itself because it uses too much water. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudi-company-fondomonte-arizona-ground-water-crop-alfalfa/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudi-company-fondomonte-arizon...

TaylorAlexander 3y ago
Well of course they won’t grow it. They’re in a desert and that would be ridiculous! /joke
- manquer 3y ago
  Interestingly Saudi Arabia has been super wasteful of their water too. They have all but drained their aquifers that takes thousands of years to replenish in a bid to become self sufficient in their food supplies. Now they are taking some corrective action with investing more in desalination, reducing certain type of agricultural produce etc.
  - prottog 3y ago
    One of the theoretical advantages of an absolute monarchy or any other totalitarian form of government is that it should be able to make unpopular decisions (i.e. prevent the people from accessing groundwater resources) that are good in the long run (i.e. the aquifers don't all run out within a few decades). Strange how that plays out in reality.
    - reducesuffering 3y ago
      They would've if they took the Chinese approach to gradually improve the standard of living organically through productivity improvements and education. Saudi Arabia instead immediately skyrocketed their standard of living far past what the population can do productively without oil. Populations don't take well to huge standard of living decreases that are inevitable when oil $ runs out to subsidize everything in the state enormously.
      - kibwen 3y ago
        > They would've if they took the Chinese approach to gradually improve the standard of living organically through productivity improvements and education. Well, since the topic is authoritarianism, note that the Chinese approach resulted in a few tens of millions dead, which is worse than what the Saudis have managed so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

Infernal 3y ago

>eat one less steak or skip a handful of almonds At least in the case of Arizonan desert alfalfa, this is a result of sweetheart lease deals offered to Saudis with no limits on groundwater access, who are effectively exporting Arizona’s aquifers in the form of livestock feed. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudi-company-fondomonte-arizona-ground-water-crop-alfalfa/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudi-company-fondomonte-arizon...

markfeathers 3y ago
As I understand their water rights were recently revoked: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/arizona/articles/2023-04-22/water-permits-for-saudi-arabia-owned-farm-in-arizona-revoked https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/arizona/articles/202...
- Dig1t 3y ago
  >has rescinded drilling permits This is just saying that they had the right to drill MORE wells revoked, presumably they already have wells that will continue to pump water out of the ground. >reported that the new wells would have pumped up to 3,000 gallons (11,000 liters) of water per minute. That is an insane amount of water.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    The entire flow of the Mississippi: > At Lake Itasca, the average flow rate is 6 cubic feet per second. At Upper St. Anthony Falls in Minneapolis, the northern most Lock and Dam, the average flow rate is 12,000 cubic feet per second or 89,869 gallons per second. At New Orleans, the average flow rate is 600,000 cubic feet per second.

grumple 3y ago

Farmers seem to disagree with the "almonds bad" narrative: https://farmtogether.com/learn/blog/dispelling-miconceptions-about-almonds-water-use https://farmtogether.com/learn/blog/dispelling-miconceptions... In addition to the reasons they list, I'd like to point out that Almonds are actually native to the desert in Iran and the Levant. I've found them in the wild while hiking in the desert in the middle east.

bombcar 3y ago
This is one of those “but where does the water go” questions that have to be answered to determine the true effect. Eg - if ten gallons per almond is true, and one goes to evaporation and nine into the aquifer it’s much different than if five evaporate, four run off into the ocean, and one sinks into the ground.

Tangurena2 3y ago

Utah has a similar problem. The governor has an alfalfa farm yet has gotten on TV to demand that Utahns pray for rain. 80% of Utah's water consumption is agricultural. If the governor wanted to reduce Utah's water problem, he should start by putting his money where his mouth is, and stop growing such an abusive crop. Unlike Arizona, it appears that much of Utah's alfalfa crop gets exported to China.