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>Tesco Bank initially refused a refund but reconsidered and apologised after BBC Radio 4's You and Yours took up the case. I wish customer service didn't depen

by enlyth 3y ago

>Tesco Bank initially refused a refund but reconsidered and apologised after BBC Radio 4's You and Yours took up the case. I wish customer service didn't depend upon whether you complain to HN/Twitter/BBC. This disadvantages those who don't want to tell the whole world about their personal issues

mysterydip 3y ago
The companies have a financial incentive to keep things as they are. Maybe we need one of those "get you out of your timeshare" style companies, pay a small fee and they argue on your behalf.
- dixie_land 3y ago
  John Oliver had an interesting segment on timeshares and argues timeshare exit companies are even bigger scams: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM
andrewmcwatters 3y ago
I think about this a lot when I think about immoral employers. How do you warn people or signal dangerous behavior to others without airing your dirty laundry? It's sad that people and organizations can do things that are widely considered immoral until they're caught by others, and then they're only apologizing that they were caught.
- georgeecollins 3y ago
  If you think of the case of Wells Fargo, where a bank fired employees because they didn't do something almost illegal -- opening an account without the account holder's permission -- then often gave them a record such that they couldn't work in banking. They did it for years and eventually did get caught, fined and are very regulated now. But that they got away with it so long should give everyone pause. What can you do? Look at people's credit ratings, job histories, etc. like a human being and know that sometimes people are taken advantage of. Don't hate all regulation because the bigger organization really does have a lot of advantages dealing with customers and employees.
freetanga 3y ago
To be fair the Bank did nothing wrong. A refund means a net loss on their books, and they did not have any obligation. Marketing-wise it makes sense, but only if this does not become a trend of opportunistic scammers. I really feel sorry for the mother, but ultimately is her responsability to raise her daughter. I haven’t used Roblox so maybe there is a case for going after them, but not the bank. Might as well sue the ISP that made the internet connection possible or the utility that allows charging her iPad…
- flutas 3y ago
  > A refund means a net loss on their books, and they did not have any obligation. What is the difference in this case between an unauthorized charge on your card? Example (here): - Mom enters CC info to allow the child to buy ONE pack. - Child then, after the fact, buys 100x packs (an unauthorized charge each time). Example 2: - Person gives a friend their CC to pay for food on DoorDash. - Person then, after the fact, continues using their CC to buy DoorDash (an unauthorized charge each time). These are both unauthorized charges, and an easy case for a chargeback. Additionally the entity out money shouldn't be the bank but Roblox, since the bank will take their money back.
  - Amezarak 3y ago
    To me this falls in a grey area. Your friend in this scenario is committing fraud and/or theft. They're obviously not going to be your friend anymore, unless it was a mistake they immediately correct when notified and pay you back the money - or you forgive it. The bank can go after them and sue for the money/file charges otherwise. Can/should the bank go after your child? Or does it make more sense to say that yes, you are liable for the charges your child makes? Or do you suggest that we simply accept that kids charging money to their parent's account without permission is something society should pay for?
    - michaelt 3y ago
      When it’s Monopoly money for predatory games, and the retailer hasn’t lost anything by giving a refund? Yes.
Waterluvian 3y ago
But only if there are laws requiring refunds like this, and that it's concrete that Tesco actually did something wrong.
theRealMe 3y ago
I don’t get why it was the bank’s fault/responsibility here? I would understand if we were talking about Apple or Roblox or something, but why the bank? It’s not like the bank got the money back from Roblox/apple. I don’t think the bank refunding the money is, or should be, an admission of guilt. It was a “pay this amount of money to make this (wrongly directed) bad press go away”. So in the end the public complaint was used as a cudgel to take money that wasn’t owed (from the bank).
- flutas 3y ago
  > It’s not like the bank got the money back from Roblox/apple. You know in a chargeback (what the mother most likely did)...the bank claws the money back from the company right? Additionally, why would their fraud algo not detect "hundreds of transactions" back to back. That is instantly a red flag to almost every bank I've known.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Ha, I managed to block my credit card after three premium purchases from war gaming. Took me three days to reach someone at the bank to get it activated again. So yes, I think the bank could have caught those transactions. Hard to tell so without details. Still, those transactions should fall under the easy to cancel category.
- nindalf 3y ago
  The bank could be liable because they’re supposed to authenticate the customer making the transaction. Either they did the authentication and the kid passed it (banks fault for bad auth) or they didn’t do authentication for a better UX and it’s still their fault.
  - theRealMe 3y ago
    Since when is authentication UX inside of a game the responsibility of the individual bank? That would be super crappy if every bank had their own auth ux in every digital platform.

by enlyth 3y ago

mysterydip 3y ago

The companies have a financial incentive to keep things as they are. Maybe we need one of those "get you out of your timeshare" style companies, pay a small fee and they argue on your behalf.

dixie_land 3y ago
John Oliver had an interesting segment on timeshares and argues timeshare exit companies are even bigger scams: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd2bbHoVQSM

andrewmcwatters 3y ago

I think about this a lot when I think about immoral employers. How do you warn people or signal dangerous behavior to others without airing your dirty laundry? It's sad that people and organizations can do things that are widely considered immoral until they're caught by others, and then they're only apologizing that they were caught.

georgeecollins 3y ago
If you think of the case of Wells Fargo, where a bank fired employees because they didn't do something almost illegal -- opening an account without the account holder's permission -- then often gave them a record such that they couldn't work in banking. They did it for years and eventually did get caught, fined and are very regulated now. But that they got away with it so long should give everyone pause. What can you do? Look at people's credit ratings, job histories, etc. like a human being and know that sometimes people are taken advantage of. Don't hate all regulation because the bigger organization really does have a lot of advantages dealing with customers and employees.

freetanga 3y ago

To be fair the Bank did nothing wrong. A refund means a net loss on their books, and they did not have any obligation. Marketing-wise it makes sense, but only if this does not become a trend of opportunistic scammers. I really feel sorry for the mother, but ultimately is her responsability to raise her daughter. I haven’t used Roblox so maybe there is a case for going after them, but not the bank. Might as well sue the ISP that made the internet connection possible or the utility that allows charging her iPad…

flutas 3y ago
> A refund means a net loss on their books, and they did not have any obligation. What is the difference in this case between an unauthorized charge on your card? Example (here): - Mom enters CC info to allow the child to buy ONE pack. - Child then, after the fact, buys 100x packs (an unauthorized charge each time). Example 2: - Person gives a friend their CC to pay for food on DoorDash. - Person then, after the fact, continues using their CC to buy DoorDash (an unauthorized charge each time). These are both unauthorized charges, and an easy case for a chargeback. Additionally the entity out money shouldn't be the bank but Roblox, since the bank will take their money back.
- Amezarak 3y ago
  To me this falls in a grey area. Your friend in this scenario is committing fraud and/or theft. They're obviously not going to be your friend anymore, unless it was a mistake they immediately correct when notified and pay you back the money - or you forgive it. The bank can go after them and sue for the money/file charges otherwise. Can/should the bank go after your child? Or does it make more sense to say that yes, you are liable for the charges your child makes? Or do you suggest that we simply accept that kids charging money to their parent's account without permission is something society should pay for?
  - michaelt 3y ago
    When it’s Monopoly money for predatory games, and the retailer hasn’t lost anything by giving a refund? Yes.

Waterluvian 3y ago

But only if there are laws requiring refunds like this, and that it's concrete that Tesco actually did something wrong.

theRealMe 3y ago

I don’t get why it was the bank’s fault/responsibility here? I would understand if we were talking about Apple or Roblox or something, but why the bank? It’s not like the bank got the money back from Roblox/apple. I don’t think the bank refunding the money is, or should be, an admission of guilt. It was a “pay this amount of money to make this (wrongly directed) bad press go away”. So in the end the public complaint was used as a cudgel to take money that wasn’t owed (from the bank).

flutas 3y ago
> It’s not like the bank got the money back from Roblox/apple. You know in a chargeback (what the mother most likely did)...the bank claws the money back from the company right? Additionally, why would their fraud algo not detect "hundreds of transactions" back to back. That is instantly a red flag to almost every bank I've known.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Ha, I managed to block my credit card after three premium purchases from war gaming. Took me three days to reach someone at the bank to get it activated again. So yes, I think the bank could have caught those transactions. Hard to tell so without details. Still, those transactions should fall under the easy to cancel category.
nindalf 3y ago
The bank could be liable because they’re supposed to authenticate the customer making the transaction. Either they did the authentication and the kid passed it (banks fault for bad auth) or they didn’t do authentication for a better UX and it’s still their fault.
- theRealMe 3y ago
  Since when is authentication UX inside of a game the responsibility of the individual bank? That would be super crappy if every bank had their own auth ux in every digital platform.