5 ms·

Lots of EU countries have ID cards, this is not something enabled by Brexit. I don't really get the dystopian angle to it either. Do countries with ID cards see

Lots of EU countries have ID cards, this is not something enabled by Brexit. I don't really get the dystopian angle to it either. Do countries with ID cards see them as authoritarian?

Nextgrid 3y ago
The UK's aversion to ID cards is weird as they are perfectly happy with HMRC having a database entry for them for example, so the government already has a record of everyone.
- lstodd 3y ago
  Those are two different things. HMRC may have numbers, but you're not required to get them tattooed on your arm. Which is the ID card scheme in fact is.
  - Nextgrid 3y ago
    How is having an ID card a requirement to tattoo a number on your arm? Nobody is advocating for mandatory "ID please" checkpoints everywhere, merely providing a standardized way to pass through existing checkpoints (AML/KYC in the bank, etc).
    - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
      We had a trial run of "papers please" just a couple of years ago. You were forbidden from traveling more than 1km from your house lest you get fined 1500 euros.
    - brigandish 3y ago
      > Nobody is advocating for mandatory "ID please" checkpoints everywhere Why would anyone who wanted mandatory "ID please" checkpoints advocate for them before introducing ID cards when: a) it makes no sense to advocate for them prior, there’s a natural sequence of dependencies. b) it would hinder the introduction of ID cards and hence, mandatory "ID please" checkpoints.
      - pjc50 3y ago
        > a) it makes no sense to advocate for them prior, there’s a natural sequence of dependencies. We had that back when the government made it mandatory to have ID to be employed or have a bank account or rent a house. Not having an ID scheme didn't prevent it being made a requirement.
        brigandish 3y ago
        Then what is the need for an ID card?
  - pjc50 3y ago
    It's not an arm tattoo, it's an ID card. The sad thing is that the UK has inflicted all the negative aspects of ID requirements on people without the consolation prize of a universal free ID. If you have a job, rent a house, or have a bank account in the UK, you must have a government ID at the moment. Because people wanted that requirement barrier built so it could be used against immigrants.
    - brigandish 3y ago
      If you’re required to have it on you at all times outside of your own property then it is effectively no different to an arm tattoo.
      - pbhjpbhj 3y ago
        You would not though, so it's not. You might as well say we should not have police because if they're required to beat you up if they saw you commit a crime then that would be bad. It would, but they're not, and it's the people who would intend that who you should oppose.
        leadingthenet 3y ago
        > You would not though In several European countries, you absolutely do.
        brigandish 3y ago
        It's sad that you have to post that comment. Should it surprise me that advocates of this do not know how ID cards are actually implemented, even in countries nearby?

Lots of EU countries have ID cards, this is not something enabled by Brexit. I don't really get the dystopian angle to it either. Do countries with ID cards see them as authoritarian?

Nextgrid 3y ago

The UK's aversion to ID cards is weird as they are perfectly happy with HMRC having a database entry for them for example, so the government already has a record of everyone.

lstodd 3y ago
Those are two different things. HMRC may have numbers, but you're not required to get them tattooed on your arm. Which is the ID card scheme in fact is.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  How is having an ID card a requirement to tattoo a number on your arm? Nobody is advocating for mandatory "ID please" checkpoints everywhere, merely providing a standardized way to pass through existing checkpoints (AML/KYC in the bank, etc).
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
    We had a trial run of "papers please" just a couple of years ago. You were forbidden from traveling more than 1km from your house lest you get fined 1500 euros.
  - brigandish 3y ago
    > Nobody is advocating for mandatory "ID please" checkpoints everywhere Why would anyone who wanted mandatory "ID please" checkpoints advocate for them before introducing ID cards when: a) it makes no sense to advocate for them prior, there’s a natural sequence of dependencies. b) it would hinder the introduction of ID cards and hence, mandatory "ID please" checkpoints.
    - pjc50 3y ago
      > a) it makes no sense to advocate for them prior, there’s a natural sequence of dependencies. We had that back when the government made it mandatory to have ID to be employed or have a bank account or rent a house. Not having an ID scheme didn't prevent it being made a requirement.
      - brigandish 3y ago
        Then what is the need for an ID card?
- pjc50 3y ago
  It's not an arm tattoo, it's an ID card. The sad thing is that the UK has inflicted all the negative aspects of ID requirements on people without the consolation prize of a universal free ID. If you have a job, rent a house, or have a bank account in the UK, you must have a government ID at the moment. Because people wanted that requirement barrier built so it could be used against immigrants.
  - brigandish 3y ago
    If you’re required to have it on you at all times outside of your own property then it is effectively no different to an arm tattoo.
    - pbhjpbhj 3y ago
      You would not though, so it's not. You might as well say we should not have police because if they're required to beat you up if they saw you commit a crime then that would be bad. It would, but they're not, and it's the people who would intend that who you should oppose.
      - leadingthenet 3y ago
        > You would not though In several European countries, you absolutely do.
        brigandish 3y ago
        It's sad that you have to post that comment. Should it surprise me that advocates of this do not know how ID cards are actually implemented, even in countries nearby?