3 ms·

> Pain (and related feelings) cannot be definitively reduced to computation. This is an assumption. Sensation cannot currently be observed, definitively.

GMoromisato 3y ago
I was sloppy, and I think we agree. I meant that pain cannot currently be reduced to computation. I’m open to believing it’s just computation, but it’s not obvious that it is, unless you assume that everything the brain does is. But then you’re the one assuming.
simonh 3y ago
Whatever else is going on inside our brains, there's definitely information processing happening and we also know that we have a first person experience of it. Our perceptions are informational, they are experiences of data. Colour, feelings, pain, desires. These are all informational and we use them to make decisions. So whatever consciousness is, what it does is process information. If consciousness itself is not a process on information, then what is it? Another possibility is that it is a substance. Chess is a set of relationships between symbols, but the wetness of a rainstorm is physical water. So is consciousness an actual substance? Where does it go when we don't have it? Is it a chemical that forms at certain times, and is re-combined into another chemical when we lose consciousness? In which case we could synthesis a beaker full of consciousness fluid, or whatever it is. Dualists say it's a non-material 'substance', but I don't think that's a coherent concept. It must interact with matter, or it couldn't receive sensations and cause effects when we make decisions. But how can it interact with matter and be non-material? If it does interact with matter, then it can be detected and manipulated physically. So why can't we find it? We've been looking at brain chemistry, signals and processes for a while and not found a hint of such a thing. Any other ideas?

GMoromisato 3y ago

I was sloppy, and I think we agree. I meant that pain cannot currently be reduced to computation. I’m open to believing it’s just computation, but it’s not obvious that it is, unless you assume that everything the brain does is. But then you’re the one assuming.

simonh 3y ago

Whatever else is going on inside our brains, there's definitely information processing happening and we also know that we have a first person experience of it. Our perceptions are informational, they are experiences of data. Colour, feelings, pain, desires. These are all informational and we use them to make decisions. So whatever consciousness is, what it does is process information. If consciousness itself is not a process on information, then what is it? Another possibility is that it is a substance. Chess is a set of relationships between symbols, but the wetness of a rainstorm is physical water. So is consciousness an actual substance? Where does it go when we don't have it? Is it a chemical that forms at certain times, and is re-combined into another chemical when we lose consciousness? In which case we could synthesis a beaker full of consciousness fluid, or whatever it is. Dualists say it's a non-material 'substance', but I don't think that's a coherent concept. It must interact with matter, or it couldn't receive sensations and cause effects when we make decisions. But how can it interact with matter and be non-material? If it does interact with matter, then it can be detected and manipulated physically. So why can't we find it? We've been looking at brain chemistry, signals and processes for a while and not found a hint of such a thing. Any other ideas?