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KLOR – A 36-42 keys column-staggered split keyboard
- 7839284023 3y agoImage: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/GEIGEIGEIST/KLOR/main/docs/images/KLOR_polydactyl_DES01.jpg https://raw.githubusercontent.com/GEIGEIGEIST/KLOR/main/docs... > KLOR is a (open-source) 36-42 key column-staggered split keyboard. It supports a per key RGB matrix, encoders, OLED displays, haptic feedback, speakers, a Pixart Paw3204 trackball, the SplitKB tenting puck and four different layouts, through break off parts.
- keyle 3y agoI love fancy keyboards. I've had mechanical keyboards when they were rare and expensive. I'm typing this from a fancy keyboard. I now have a cupboard full of them ;) ... But this, this kind of keyboards, that's masochistic! :-) I honestly doubt that these make your life easier. Please explain if you have one of these what drew you to this?
- OJFord 3y agoSplit is theorised to be ergonomically better, match shoulder spacing / inward tilt from reach, etc. Column stagger is theorised to better match finger 'layout' and therefore be better/easier/more even to type. Both are debated.
- zokier 3y agoSplitting also allows "tenting" the keyboard easily, i.e. having the halves sit at an angle instead of just flat on the desk, which further improves ergonomics. The history of spltting and tenting go way back. If you look at Microsofts somewhat popular "Natural" and "Sculpt" keyboards, they are semi-split and slightly tented already since late 90s.
- bee_rider 3y agoI really thought a split keyboard would be amazing, but it ended up just being a vehicle for tenting. Tenting is great, though!
- Ballas 3y ago> Please explain if you have one of these what drew you to this? Debilitating neck spasms, I was willing to try anything. I can reach any key with minimal movement of my hands. Though my keyboard is 50 keys, which I find the closest compromise, by keeping the layout somewhat more compatible to normal keyboards.
- 1MachineElf 3y agoI use a variant that requires only 34 keys. It's amazing how many extra keys you can eliminate when when you dedicate a couple to each thumb. Without extraneous keys that require you to reach away from the home row, is very efficient to use. A mnemonic keyboard layout keeps it intuitive. The Miryoku layout is a popular choice: https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku As a Dvorak user, here's mine: https://github.com/1MachineElf/qmk_firmware/tree/_sb4dv/keyboards/planck/keymaps/sb4dv https://github.com/1MachineElf/qmk_firmware/tree/_sb4dv/keyb...
- 3np 3y ago> Please explain if you have one of these what drew you to this? Apart from also having tried a lot of different varieties and figuring out what works for me (it's not always what you think): Full typing range with no hand-movement. Call me old-fashioned but I'd like to have access to the upsides of soon-ubiquitous immersive VR but keep typing with my fingers and maintain tactile feedback. At the desk or on the train. Not interested in neurolinks, voice or AI-camera-hand-gesture stuff for the foreseeable future. FLOSS purist. This seems like the best direction if one has a similar inclination and wants to make it a progression.
- rcarr 3y agoI think VR keyboards are probably going to be more along the lines of tapxr, I could definitely see Apple baking something like this into the watch https://www.tapwithus.com/product/tap-xr/ https://www.tapwithus.com/product/tap-xr/
- 3np 3y agoMight be and I'm not discounting reconsidering if/when something viable and promising comes up.
- bjoli 3y agoI was a mech fan until I tried light contactless switches. I bought a razer huntsman v2. I stopped using any other keyboards after some simple mods and sold my collection of vintage and custom stuff. Maybe it was because I started getting old, but I started feeling it was a waste of time. Still miss it a bit though, but when I could spend an hour on a huntsman v2 and have it feel better than any of my other linear keyboards I just felt it wasn't worth it.
- TylerE 3y agoIn a sane world Topre would release a Cherry compatible sealed single key and we could have our cake and eat it too.
- bjoli 3y agoI mean, most people who like tactile have forgotten how a snappy rubber dome feels. The only one making keyboard for typists these days seems to be Matias, and they DO feel like a snappy rubber dome.
- TylerE 3y agoTactile is so weird. My current keeb has… I forget what but it’s whatever limited edition Kailh Box linear has the lowest activation for I could find. They’re like 35g switches.
- alpaca128 3y ago100% of the functionality without hand movement. You can have the arrow keys directly under your fingertips at all times, same with numbers and special symbols. And while I don't like this particular layout in the link I do have a very similar 42-key keyboard and after a couple days of practice it was the most natural and smoothest typing experience I've ever had. Terrible for any one-handed use (e.g. gaming), though, and it's definitely not everyone's cup of tea.
- tigeroil 3y agoAbsolutely this - I use a Corne and it's my favourite keyboard for productivity by miles. I do have another keyboard - a 61 key that I use for gaming, but for day-to-day productivity the corne is absolutely glorious.
- rcarr 3y agoAre you using 36 or 42 key? I’m looking to get one soon and was initially leaning to 36 but I’ve heard reports that 42 is the better way to go because the shift buttons can be frustrating as a home row mod on 36 key?
- lawn 3y agoIn my humble opinion, having a one-shot shift on your secondary thumb is something everyone should try. I personally use auto-shift (long press for shift) on my 34 key layout, but I think most would prefer the one-shot shift.
- rgoulter 3y agoOne-shot shift = after tapping, the next key you press is shifted? That does seem useful. I also liked QMK's "caps word" feature. It's like CapsLock, but only for UNDERSCORED_WORDS. (i.e. the keyboard returns to non-CapsLock after typing a non-word letter, like space/esc/tab/etc.).
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- microtonal 3y agoPlease explain if you have one of these what drew you to this? Wrist pain posed me to research other keyboards than the Apple Magic Keyboard and Microsoft sculpt. Within a brief amount of time I tried a Kinesis Freestyle Edge RGB, Kyria, and Ferris Sweep. I found the Kyria and Sweep pretty awkward (for different reasons) and caused other pains. Then I got a Kinesis Advantage2 and that really changed things for me, my hand/wrist health improved a lot. I did replace the controller with a KinT to get QMK though. I am also using a Model 100, since it also allows me to experiment with different switches. But the Advantage2 is my main work keyboard. I also have an Advantage360, but I don't use it much, because I don't like the switches. Review: https://danieldk.eu/review-kinesis-advantage-360-pro/ https://danieldk.eu/review-kinesis-advantage-360-pro/
- xupybd 3y agoI'm glad I didn't switch to the 360. I love my Advantage. I'm not even on an Advantage 2 yet. They cost too much for me to get another one. I added o-rings to the keys and think that made it a little nicer to use.
- pixelbreaker 3y agoIt's more comfortable, but you have to be willing to learn the layout or develop your own. I have a bastardKB Charybdis Nano as my daily, and I'm developing my own low profile board too. My next iteration of both will be 34 key only, that's plenty for me. You can see my layout/firmware here https://github.com/pixelbreaker/qmk_userspace https://github.com/pixelbreaker/qmk_userspace (layout is in layout.h)
- lawn 3y ago> I honestly doubt that these make your life easier. Please explain if you have one of these what drew you to this? Moving to a custom 34 key layout fixed my RSI, which has been an amazing benefit for me. Of course, the tradeoff is that my layout is far more complex than a standard layout, and it has required a lot of time to tweak it to where it is now. For me, it's been one of the best decisions of my programming career (together with learning Vim).
- snthpy 3y agoI love 40% split keyboards and this one looks pretty cool but you can't beat the aesthetics of my Cornish Zen!
- Hamcha 3y agoI built a TOTEM[1] (same creator) and it looks stunning. Was a breeze to get manufactured (both PCB and resin printer case from jlcpcb, in my case) and assemble too! The build guide is very informative and quirky, it has everything from tips in how to solder smd diodes to "use a sharpie to paint the PCB sides black so it looks nicer", way better than some expensive kits I've bought in the last few years! 1. https://github.com/GEIGEIGEIST/TOTEM https://github.com/GEIGEIGEIST/TOTEM
- defka36 3y agoGeist's boards are amazing. I own both KLOR and TOTEM but still want to build a KLOTZ and use it as travel keyboard. Custom keyboard rabbit hole is so deep
- d4rkp4ttern 3y agoMech KBs are nice but I am always puzzled why nobody discusses what I think is the biggest unsolved problem with any keyboard: the Mouse ! Let me elaborate — on a laptop computer (esp MacBook ) the nicest thing is that we don’t have to reach for a mouse, and we use the trackpad with either thumb. With an external keyboard, the ergonomics are great EXCEPT that you have to move your hand off the KB to get to a mouse. For me that kills the ergonomics! If someone designs a combo mech kb with an easily reachable trackpad below the thumbs, that would be amazing.
- motiejus 3y agoThat's why I use Lenovo keyboards. They have this amazing red thing in the middle of the keyboard. You can't ask more than that.
- TylerE 3y agoIt could never get on with those, as it’s exactly the kind of micro-movement I have trouble with.
- bjoli 3y agohttps://www.posturite.co.uk/contour-rollermouse-free3 https://www.posturite.co.uk/contour-rollermouse-free3 maybe? If you like it you like it. I used a trackball with a 75% (the best %) and an external numpad that I put the left of my kB. I use my mouse very little, so it wasn't much of a context switch.
- zokier 3y agoIntegrating pointer devices into keyboards is definitely a thing for ergo community. Even this design has trackball support! > It supports a per key RGB matrix, encoders, OLED displays, haptic feedback, speakers, a Pixart Paw3204 trackball, the SplitKB tenting puck and four different layouts, through break off parts.
- 7839284023 3y agoHave a look at the [1] Dilemma with build in thumb touchpad or the [2] Charybdis with build in thumb trackball. [1] https://bastardkb.com/product/dilemma/ https://bastardkb.com/product/dilemma/ [2] https://bastardkb.com/charybdis/ https://bastardkb.com/charybdis/
- SanderNL 3y agoDoes it support my country’s unique AZERCQW layout with the parentheses on CtrShiftQ+8? Without that, it is a broken mess filled to the brim with showstopping UX failures.
- lemper 3y agogood thing is, you can program the layout yourself. you can even put the parentheses in homerow and access it by holding one of the thumb keys and tap a key in homerow.
- bradrn 3y agoWhich country is this? I’ve never heard of this particular layout.
- Narishma 3y agoIt's the Woosh country.
- lawn 3y agoAll custom keyboards should support something like QMK or ZMK, making them completely programmable, so you can have any messed-up layout you want :)
- iterati 3y agoMost enthusiast split keebs run on QMK or ZMK which allow you to customize the layout as you'd like including features such as layers, one-shot mods (press shift, next key you press is shift+key), macros, and key combos (press jk to emulate shift like some people do in vim).
- muti 3y agoParody of this comment from the other day? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36009068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36009068
- SanderNL 3y ago
- bombcar 3y agoIf you want to explore Dvorak or Colemack or some other alternative keyboard style, also switching to something like this at the same time can help train you without losing your QWERTZ skills.
- wahnfrieden 3y agoThe Glove80 is probably the most interesting ergo keyboard at the moment, well in my opinion: https://www.moergo.com https://www.moergo.com I'm paying someone local to desolder and resolder with 15g Kailh Choc Pink switches (aka gChoc). Requires resoldering because of the curved IC boards not accommodating hot switching unfortunately but that's the same w the Kinesis Adantage360
- c54 3y agoI have a kinesis advantage 360 and hadn’t heard of the Glove before. What do you like about it versus the Kinesis?
- wahnfrieden 3y agoI'm a 15 year kinesis advantage user, I will also get the advantage360 but it's >180 days wait from their partner to solder customer switches and the defaults are way too heavy for me. I'll put ~20-25g switches in from upgradekeyboards. glove80 downside is bottoming out. upside is mountability (my chair arms, or flanking my LC4 chaise longue, etc.), better tenting ability, maybe portability, and more immediate availability. the choc switches are also interesting because they're more compactly placed. not as much pinky stretch. I don't have a glove80 yet but will probably get one before figuring out which advantage80 model to get / if the wireless is still crap. I currently use an advantage and a sofle choc with gchocs and mkb poms and magsafe mounting.
- microtonal 3y agoI paid to register for Glove80 batch 2, but decided not to follow up. I had several Choc keyboards, but I don't like Choc v1 switches and I don't like Choc spacing. Plus they currently don't have an option to return it if you don't like it, which is not great for a keyboard that costs about 470 Euro after import taxes. I'm a 15 year kinesis advantage user, I will also get the advantage360 but it's >180 days wait from their partner to solder customer switches and the defaults are way too heavy for me. That's a smart choice. I have the regular 360 Pro and even after several months I dislike the Gateron Brown switches and the 360 is mostly on the shelf. The Cherry Browns/Reds in the Advantage2 were much better, because they actuate around 2mm, while the Gateron Browns have much deeper actuation (2.5 to 3mm) [1]. As a result, I find the 360 tiring to type on, which is... not good for an ergo keyboard. The Bluetooth situation got better with a recent ZMK rebase. At least the halves now usually connect immediately when I turn both halves on. No more 1-2 minutes of on/off cycles. [1] Gateron's specs say 2mm, but that's not accurate. Also see measurements that others have made: https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/tools/table/96386 https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/tools/table/96386
- amelius 3y agoAnybody making their own keycaps?
- defka36 3y agoLike desigining keycap profiles or 3d printing them?
- amelius 3y agoWell, both. And it could be a different type of manufacturing tech if that gives better results.
- defka36 3y agoI have plenty of 3d printed keycaps.Also tried to design some but after discovering some really nice keycap profiles like DES,Chicago Sterno,PBS just stopped trying to design. When it comes to printing , I use JLCPCB 3d printing services which just gives me really nice resin keycaps also 3d printed mfj(nylon) keycaps are nice.
- wahnfrieden 3y agoMKB POM
- xwdv 3y agoThese keyboards are “interesting” to look at, but I find that the more ergonomic they are, the more they reinforce the idea that you’re a human, who needs human shaped things, and a human is all you’ll ever be. As such, I do not like using them. In fact, my favorite keyboards are Ortholinear, where keys are arranged in a straight grid of rows and columns with no deviation, and I especially enjoy combining this aesthetic with blank keys. There is no better looking keyboard than this, it appeals to an intellectual’s sensibilities, and when you master the use of one, you feel you have ascended beyond the status of mere human, and into something more. A union between man and machine. Now that is how a keyboard should make you feel: ergonomics for the soul.
- iterati 3y agoHard disagree. Keyboards are a tool and should be comfortable to use.
- electronicelyas 3y agoMy room is going to end up looking like Lain's at this rate
- lolive 3y agoJust to give my humble experience, having bought a VIA-compatible keyboard was the opportunity to reorganize keys and test which options make sense for me. I am still in my early phase, but (for example) I discovered that a 60% keyboard would suit my needs just fine (with CapsLock as my favorite choice as a mapping switcher). I wonder how to check if an even more compact layout could work for me. Does that mean additional mapping switching keys? [i wonder how to handle a Ctrl-Alt-Shift-F9, then ;) ]
- iterati 3y agoCheck out the Miryoku layout (https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku). I use a modified version. For me, that keypress is inner-right-thumb, right index, middle, and pink pressing homerow keys, and the key above my left index.
- vogt 3y agoI'm a big fan of leveraging the FN key on 60% and lower layouts. I handle all of the switching between layers with FN+W,A,S,D. So four different layouts basically. Plus a wild amount of macros. But all in all I basically just am agreeing here, VIA/QMK enabled keyboards are the way to go.
- unwind 3y agoNo idea if it's relevant but the name means "claws" in Swedish. Seems to fit with the hand posture during use, maybe.
- dark-star 3y agorelated: https://scrapbox.io/MECHKEYS/ https://scrapbox.io/MECHKEYS/
- userbinator 3y agoIt's interesting to see all these highly unusual input devices, but as someone who can already type all day at 150wpm on a regular QWERTY board, I don't quite understand how much better something like this can make you type.
- muti 3y agoSpeed is only one aspect, comfort is the main benefit for me. The biggest change in comfort I found going from row stagger to ortholinear, then a small bump again going column stagger and low profile
- zokier 3y agoThere was a poll yesterday on Reddit about ergonomic keyboards, about half of the respondents had RSI as answer, and only ~5% responded typing speed: https://www.reddit.com/poll/13mnq7q https://www.reddit.com/poll/13mnq7q
- xupybd 3y agoI've tried a few keyboards like this. I can't seem to find anything better than the Kinesis Advantage. There is something about the placement of the keys that makes typing low effort. I'd like to try some other options with key wells. Like the glove 80.
- uguuo_o 3y agoI have been using ergodox keyboards for a long while, I did not like the kinesis advantage much (not split). The glove 80 looks interesting and I would try it were it not for the fact that switches are soldered.
- xupybd 3y agoI have an ergodox as well. I got one of the first infinity versions. There were a few issues with the USB connector but epoxy seems to have fixed that up. I find that I like it but not as much as the advantage. It's harder to use. One of the problems is that I picked too stiff of a key type (MX clear). The other is that the keys are just a little further out of reach. I like that I can customize it but I find that I don't use many of the features such as layers. I really don't like that I have to use layers to access the F keys. I use F2 all the time to rename things, and F5 to refresh webpages. One extra modifier key is not much but it seems to make the experience much worse for me. I like that it's split so I can set it to my wider than normal shoulders but I don't like that it keeps moving. That seems to throw off my muscle memory of where the keys are. I'm in the process of making a fixed mount to correct for that.
- sudb 3y agoI built a Dactyl Manuform recently (https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard) which seems to have keywells like the Kinesis Advantage, and it's been fantastic. I 3D printed the default case in the repo - I'm yet to start poking around with customising the parameters and OpenSCAD but eventually I'd like to be able to make the case to fit my hands perfectly (as it stands the default thumb cluster on the 5x6 keyboard is a bit large for me).
- phibz 3y agoI dont think i could give up the palm rests of my keyboard.io, but something like this looks interesting in that i might be able to customize it.
- lolive 3y agoConfiguring your keyboard for productivity all seems to go down to tuning your keys behaviour. A nice fellow mentionned kmonad as a kind of ultimate tool for that. As I had never heard about this utility, I found this very simple introduction to kmonad: https://dev.to/ram535/kmonad-and-the-power-of-infinite-leader-keys-888 https://dev.to/ram535/kmonad-and-the-power-of-infinite-leade... I hope you will like it too.