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Whose leaving? Folks with black money trying to park abroad because they know CCP can crack down vs safety of parking wealth in western housing where dysfunctio

Whose leaving? Folks with black money trying to park abroad because they know CCP can crack down vs safety of parking wealth in western housing where dysfunctional politics and entrenched interests won't go after real estate. Meanwhile actual top tier talent being retained and even returning because more opportunities in PRC than ever. They're the ones pushing PRC up these indexes. Even PRC students who go abroad aren't cream of crop anymore, many just have wealthy enough parents who know their kids won't make it in PRC, aka the bench team. Who still do good enough work to fill up space in US / western institutions.

throwaway2990 3y ago
So the families who are coming up through South America. Who don’t have money. They are the black money folks? The families buying cheap condos in Thailand for 300k to send their parents to live because of freedoms and better quality of life? How’s 300k black money? This is ignoring the high unemployment rate at the moment. I guess with so many people losing their jobs that means there’s lots of opportunities. The foreclosures on homes is an indication there are more jobs right?
- coliveira 3y ago
  If you take any small pocket of the Chinese market, you'll find millions of people. So, even if what you're saying is 100% correct, this doesn't paint a complete picture of the Chinese economy. In aggregate, China is growing faster than other economies and in engineering and scientific terms it is growing much faster.
  - throwaway2990 3y ago
    The CCP often says a lot of things. They spent years telling their citizens that their way is the right way and that India is a failure yet India is growing steadily while Chinas population is crippling, manufacturing is leaving, unemployment is on the raise, people are losing their homes and money. I don’t understand the mental gymnastics people go through trying to justify and defend China when the people are suffering. It’s like believing the covid deaths reported by the CCP and ignoring the 100s of videos of days long queues to cremations that are running 24/7 and saying “oh the 1000 fold increase in deaths is not related to covid”.
    - DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
      Your basic picture of what life is like in China is way off. > They spent years telling their citizens that their way is the right way The government doesn't have to work very hard to convince people in China of this. Living standards have increased dramatically in a relatively short period of time. People see how much their own lives have improved, and they don't need further convincing. > yet India is growing steadily while Chinas population is crippling, ... Living standards in China are far above those in India. This is like comparing the US to Mexico. That's how large the gulf is. > I don’t understand the mental gymnastics people go through trying to justify and defend China when the people are suffering. If you go to China, you'll have a hard time convincing people that they're suffering so much. By and large, people do not feel that way, simply because their standard of living has increased so rapidly. > It’s like believing the covid deaths reported by the CCP and ignoring the 100s of videos of days long queues to cremations Zero-CoVID was a real policy, and it really did keep the virus almost completely out of China for more than two years. Anyone who lived in China during that time can confirm this for you. It helps to have some actual on-the-ground experience or connections, rather than trying to interpret random videos of crematoria. Nobody I know in China got CoVID at all until December 2022, when the zero-CoVID policy was lifted. Then, they all got it in the space of one month.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Indian population growth is hardly indicative of winning. That china’s population is growing and will shrink below 1 billion before stabilizing is a net win for them in the long run if they can weather the fall out of dealing with an aging population. India, on the other hand, while having a lot of kids to do work, will have to find them productive jobs and such, it could act against quality of life getting better.
      - throwaway2990 3y ago
        [flagged]
- dirtyid 3y ago
  LATAM border like <10k, insignificant % when talking about PRC emigration, especially capital flight real estate parkers you were referencing to. Ditto with low double digit PRC buying condos in ASEAN for wintering and having access to international schools because their mediocre kids can't hack it. And again, they’re not the cohorts that matter for articles like this. >ignoring the high unemployment High youth unemployment, and no, it's fundementally a symptom of why PRC is improving in scitech and industry. State over capacity is generating like 4-5M STEM a year, 20% means they're finding jobs for 4M STEM and like 6M (out of 8M) undergrads, that's a stupendous amount of skilled talent entering the workforce relative to anyone else. West and folks who wank over PRC unemployment should be shaking that PRC ONLY has 20% youth unemployement. Is there enough job supply to match talent oversupply? No, but there's still a fucking crazy amount of jobs to compete globally, relative to when PRC was producing 2M stem per year with 10% youth unemployment. The net increase in high end opportunities is doubling per year relative to 00-10s. Hence PRC moving up these innovation indexes and supply chain value. Not to mention youth unemployment is only high because high household savings lets a lot of urban youth lounge around for options, which aren't always good, eventually they'll give up and settle, which is why broader unemployment is like 5%. Or quoting unrelated stats like home foreclosures that doesn't shit like science output, you realize US S&E output increased during GFC and other economic downturns when people were losing their houses right.

throwaway2990 3y ago

So the families who are coming up through South America. Who don’t have money. They are the black money folks? The families buying cheap condos in Thailand for 300k to send their parents to live because of freedoms and better quality of life? How’s 300k black money? This is ignoring the high unemployment rate at the moment. I guess with so many people losing their jobs that means there’s lots of opportunities. The foreclosures on homes is an indication there are more jobs right?

coliveira 3y ago
If you take any small pocket of the Chinese market, you'll find millions of people. So, even if what you're saying is 100% correct, this doesn't paint a complete picture of the Chinese economy. In aggregate, China is growing faster than other economies and in engineering and scientific terms it is growing much faster.
- throwaway2990 3y ago
  The CCP often says a lot of things. They spent years telling their citizens that their way is the right way and that India is a failure yet India is growing steadily while Chinas population is crippling, manufacturing is leaving, unemployment is on the raise, people are losing their homes and money. I don’t understand the mental gymnastics people go through trying to justify and defend China when the people are suffering. It’s like believing the covid deaths reported by the CCP and ignoring the 100s of videos of days long queues to cremations that are running 24/7 and saying “oh the 1000 fold increase in deaths is not related to covid”.
  - DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
    Your basic picture of what life is like in China is way off. > They spent years telling their citizens that their way is the right way The government doesn't have to work very hard to convince people in China of this. Living standards have increased dramatically in a relatively short period of time. People see how much their own lives have improved, and they don't need further convincing. > yet India is growing steadily while Chinas population is crippling, ... Living standards in China are far above those in India. This is like comparing the US to Mexico. That's how large the gulf is. > I don’t understand the mental gymnastics people go through trying to justify and defend China when the people are suffering. If you go to China, you'll have a hard time convincing people that they're suffering so much. By and large, people do not feel that way, simply because their standard of living has increased so rapidly. > It’s like believing the covid deaths reported by the CCP and ignoring the 100s of videos of days long queues to cremations Zero-CoVID was a real policy, and it really did keep the virus almost completely out of China for more than two years. Anyone who lived in China during that time can confirm this for you. It helps to have some actual on-the-ground experience or connections, rather than trying to interpret random videos of crematoria. Nobody I know in China got CoVID at all until December 2022, when the zero-CoVID policy was lifted. Then, they all got it in the space of one month.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Indian population growth is hardly indicative of winning. That china’s population is growing and will shrink below 1 billion before stabilizing is a net win for them in the long run if they can weather the fall out of dealing with an aging population. India, on the other hand, while having a lot of kids to do work, will have to find them productive jobs and such, it could act against quality of life getting better.
    - throwaway2990 3y ago
      [flagged]
dirtyid 3y ago
LATAM border like <10k, insignificant % when talking about PRC emigration, especially capital flight real estate parkers you were referencing to. Ditto with low double digit PRC buying condos in ASEAN for wintering and having access to international schools because their mediocre kids can't hack it. And again, they’re not the cohorts that matter for articles like this. >ignoring the high unemployment High youth unemployment, and no, it's fundementally a symptom of why PRC is improving in scitech and industry. State over capacity is generating like 4-5M STEM a year, 20% means they're finding jobs for 4M STEM and like 6M (out of 8M) undergrads, that's a stupendous amount of skilled talent entering the workforce relative to anyone else. West and folks who wank over PRC unemployment should be shaking that PRC ONLY has 20% youth unemployement. Is there enough job supply to match talent oversupply? No, but there's still a fucking crazy amount of jobs to compete globally, relative to when PRC was producing 2M stem per year with 10% youth unemployment. The net increase in high end opportunities is doubling per year relative to 00-10s. Hence PRC moving up these innovation indexes and supply chain value. Not to mention youth unemployment is only high because high household savings lets a lot of urban youth lounge around for options, which aren't always good, eventually they'll give up and settle, which is why broader unemployment is like 5%. Or quoting unrelated stats like home foreclosures that doesn't shit like science output, you realize US S&E output increased during GFC and other economic downturns when people were losing their houses right.