7 ms·

“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s asset

by rcpt 3y ago

“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.” -David Foster Wallace

joewferrara 3y ago
This is pretty good considering the fact that David Foster Wallace took his own life in the end. I read the whole quote before I saw at the end it’s from him.
- chris_st 3y ago
  Takes one to know one, as we used to say...
  - fuzzfactor 3y ago
    It also might be revealing to read the account of the guy that jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and survived.
Liquix 3y ago
Authors who end up taking their own lives often pen some of the most haunting and poignant passages on death: "It was useless to try to do anything. One could only watch the extraordinary efforts made by those tiny legs against an oncoming doom which could, had it chosen, have submerged an entire city, not merely a city, but masses of human beings; nothing, I knew had any chance against death." - Virginia Woolf, Death of a Moth
spacedcowboy 3y ago
This is where my wife was, a week or so ago. She was initially admitted to hospital for low Sodium (hyponatremia) with no obvious symptoms - we actually went for something else which was benign. They corrected the low Sodium, but they corrected it quickly - possibly too quickly [1]. The next day she started to become non-responsive, and the day after was completely non-responsive - didn't react to pain stimuli, dropping her hand over her face just made her hand hit her face, couldn't open her eyes etc. They gave her anti-depressant drugs and she seemed to snap out of it. They kept her in for another couple of days (which the insurance are now arguing over, but that's another tragedy) and then discharged her. A few days later she stopped being able to walk, she's in constant pain, her legs are tremoring all the time now, her chest is constricted and she's frequently hyperventilating for hours at a time in order to breathe. She gets told she's "anxious", and it's in her head by her PCP. We visit ER several times because she can't breathe properly, and every time she's put on an IV, they maybe give her some sedation (Ativan) and then discharge her a few hours later once she's calmed down due to the drugs. After 6 weeks of constant pain, next to no sleep, and being told she's fine (when she clearly isn't "fine") she starts talking about how she needs to find peace, and she can't take this any more. She's been building up to it, but I didn't take it seriously enough. Mea culpa. We don't have a gun in the house, she phones friends, asking them if they have a gun, and she'd "take care of everything". One friend of hers calls it in. Police, Fire-brigade (EMT) and eventually an ambulance appear outside the house as she's sectioned on a 3-day hold. They actually released her the next day, and now she's terrified of "going back". I'm not saying the officials did anything wrong - they didn't - they were courteous but implacable, but they were just doing an unpleasant job. On the plus side, she's not mentioned anything about taking her life since. A doctor mentions that there is such a thing as Osmotic Demylination Syndrome [2], which can happen when hyponatremia is "fixed" too rapidly. It would explain all the symptoms we're seeing, including the non-responsiveness. Apparently there's an MRI test to see if this has happened. Our next (7th ? I lose track) visit to ER, I get them to do this MRI. She doesn't have it, from what we can see on the data. I ask for the data to send to the neurologist. Finally, 8 weeks since this all started, the various specialist referrals start to kick in: Endocrinologist, Cardiologist, Neurologist, Gastroenterologist, Psychiatrist... Her PCP hasn't been much help other than to give referrals, and in fact seems to be out of her depth - the last visit to the PCP we were told that the PCP refused to prescribe any more Ativan. That would be reasonable (these aren't drugs to take lightly) if she were to be weaned off them, but no - cold turkey it has to be. I ask the PCP to talk to the neurologist, who seems a bit more human, and the prescription is passed to the neurologist to fulfil. I won't go into me finding a lump on my balls, and the subsequent worry over cancer (it was just a cyst), or the maybe-heart-attack last weekend that has me seeing the same cardiologist as my wife 'STAT'. This isn't about me. But if I'm out of the picture, well, there's just me, her and our son, the rest of family is 6000 miles away.... So here I am, still trying to sound positive to an intelligent woman who knows just how far she's fallen. Still trying to sound upbeat when she's literally crying in pain (oh yeah, the pain-specialist appointment is still to happen) throughout the night, and OTC pain-killers don't have any effect. Still trying to make it sound like we're making progress even though I can't see it myself. Still trying to answer "why won't someone help me ?" without sounding trite and jaded. Hopelessness is an insidious poison for the mind. I don't feel the same way, but I can understand how she'd ask about the gun... 1: https://imgur.com/jtGTdn3 https://imgur.com/jtGTdn3 2: https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000775.htm https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000775.htm
roncesvalles 3y ago
While some people really do have to make a choice between fire and falling, many who think they're in that situation may actually be hallucinating of the fire. They don't have to fall; they can be helped.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by rcpt 3y ago

joewferrara 3y ago

This is pretty good considering the fact that David Foster Wallace took his own life in the end. I read the whole quote before I saw at the end it’s from him.

chris_st 3y ago
Takes one to know one, as we used to say...
- fuzzfactor 3y ago
  It also might be revealing to read the account of the guy that jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and survived.

Liquix 3y ago

Authors who end up taking their own lives often pen some of the most haunting and poignant passages on death: "It was useless to try to do anything. One could only watch the extraordinary efforts made by those tiny legs against an oncoming doom which could, had it chosen, have submerged an entire city, not merely a city, but masses of human beings; nothing, I knew had any chance against death." - Virginia Woolf, Death of a Moth

spacedcowboy 3y ago

This is where my wife was, a week or so ago. She was initially admitted to hospital for low Sodium (hyponatremia) with no obvious symptoms - we actually went for something else which was benign. They corrected the low Sodium, but they corrected it quickly - possibly too quickly [1]. The next day she started to become non-responsive, and the day after was completely non-responsive - didn't react to pain stimuli, dropping her hand over her face just made her hand hit her face, couldn't open her eyes etc. They gave her anti-depressant drugs and she seemed to snap out of it. They kept her in for another couple of days (which the insurance are now arguing over, but that's another tragedy) and then discharged her. A few days later she stopped being able to walk, she's in constant pain, her legs are tremoring all the time now, her chest is constricted and she's frequently hyperventilating for hours at a time in order to breathe. She gets told she's "anxious", and it's in her head by her PCP. We visit ER several times because she can't breathe properly, and every time she's put on an IV, they maybe give her some sedation (Ativan) and then discharge her a few hours later once she's calmed down due to the drugs. After 6 weeks of constant pain, next to no sleep, and being told she's fine (when she clearly isn't "fine") she starts talking about how she needs to find peace, and she can't take this any more. She's been building up to it, but I didn't take it seriously enough. Mea culpa. We don't have a gun in the house, she phones friends, asking them if they have a gun, and she'd "take care of everything". One friend of hers calls it in. Police, Fire-brigade (EMT) and eventually an ambulance appear outside the house as she's sectioned on a 3-day hold. They actually released her the next day, and now she's terrified of "going back". I'm not saying the officials did anything wrong - they didn't - they were courteous but implacable, but they were just doing an unpleasant job. On the plus side, she's not mentioned anything about taking her life since. A doctor mentions that there is such a thing as Osmotic Demylination Syndrome [2], which can happen when hyponatremia is "fixed" too rapidly. It would explain all the symptoms we're seeing, including the non-responsiveness. Apparently there's an MRI test to see if this has happened. Our next (7th ? I lose track) visit to ER, I get them to do this MRI. She doesn't have it, from what we can see on the data. I ask for the data to send to the neurologist. Finally, 8 weeks since this all started, the various specialist referrals start to kick in: Endocrinologist, Cardiologist, Neurologist, Gastroenterologist, Psychiatrist... Her PCP hasn't been much help other than to give referrals, and in fact seems to be out of her depth - the last visit to the PCP we were told that the PCP refused to prescribe any more Ativan. That would be reasonable (these aren't drugs to take lightly) if she were to be weaned off them, but no - cold turkey it has to be. I ask the PCP to talk to the neurologist, who seems a bit more human, and the prescription is passed to the neurologist to fulfil. I won't go into me finding a lump on my balls, and the subsequent worry over cancer (it was just a cyst), or the maybe-heart-attack last weekend that has me seeing the same cardiologist as my wife 'STAT'. This isn't about me. But if I'm out of the picture, well, there's just me, her and our son, the rest of family is 6000 miles away.... So here I am, still trying to sound positive to an intelligent woman who knows just how far she's fallen. Still trying to sound upbeat when she's literally crying in pain (oh yeah, the pain-specialist appointment is still to happen) throughout the night, and OTC pain-killers don't have any effect. Still trying to make it sound like we're making progress even though I can't see it myself. Still trying to answer "why won't someone help me ?" without sounding trite and jaded. Hopelessness is an insidious poison for the mind. I don't feel the same way, but I can understand how she'd ask about the gun... 1: https://imgur.com/jtGTdn3 https://imgur.com/jtGTdn3 2: https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000775.htm https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000775.htm

roncesvalles 3y ago

While some people really do have to make a choice between fire and falling, many who think they're in that situation may actually be hallucinating of the fire. They don't have to fall; they can be helped.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]