4 ms·

Turning arms and munitions that we’ve already manufactured and stockpiled back into money is surprisingly difficult.

by clipsy 3y ago

sieabahlpark 3y ago
[dead]
gumballindie 3y ago
What gp fails to understand is that those 117b do exactly that - turn stock piles back into money. A lot of the money for ukraine actually goes back to us manufacturers and are not wired into ukranian banks. Furthermore by honouring treaties and standing up to bullies the us is gaining a lot of soft power. As a european i want to see more american products in europe and i most certainly will be a strong supporter of your country.
- phendrenad2 3y ago
  If you have a bow & arrow, and you spent $1 for the arrow, and you fire it into the forest, how did you get your $1 back? This isn't a trick question.
  - voakbasda 3y ago
    If the us government owns the bow and arrow, it calls up the contractor that made the arrow and orders another one. The taxpayers foot the bill.
    - klyrs 3y ago
      Do the taxpayers actually foot the bill? Or does the government print money, and recover taxes to prevent runaway inflation? And what happens if we stockpile munitions and don't use them? They age, get destroyed and replenished. The military is continually burning money to keep its stockpiles up to date anyway, and if we're sending stuff to Ukraine before it expires, that accelerates the replenishment, but I'd argue that it's better than the alternative.
      - hanniabu 3y ago
        > Do the taxpayers actually foot the bill? Or does the government print money, and recover taxes to prevent runaway inflation? Taxpayers, aka citizens, foot the bill in both cases
      - wernercd 3y ago
        The rampant inflation from "government print money" seems to show that yes, even if we aren't paying for it directly (and our 30t+ in debt says we are paying for it.)... we are paying for the "print free money" at the gas pump, the grocery store, etc.
        klyrs 3y ago
        Alternate perspective: grocerers and oil producers form cartels and raise prices to line their pockets. The only people whose wages are beating inflation are at the executive level, and they really love it when you point pitchforks at the government and not them.
        wernercd 3y ago
        realistic perspective: it's not a single problem. Oil producers and cartels raise prices because... money's being printed. Because Biden shuts down new pipelines, slows oil leases, is hostile to energy production. Demand craters because of lockdowns that don't work... then ramps up because the world tries to return to normal after a "pandemic". Almost like an increasing demand with a dipshit anti-energy President is going to have disastrously bad results. Seriously though... the problem isn't "evil companies" doing shit like making money (how dare they!). The problem is multifaceted. Did you have an issue when companies closed at record levels because of bad decisions that caused the slowdowns? Or were you cheering because those companies got what was coming? do you think that the surviving companies don't deserve profits after years of losses?
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    It is a valid question. The way i see it is that the equipment sent to ukraine is either old and rusty or not in use. So while in theory you spent money by shooting an arrow, in practice you havent since it wasnt in use anyway. But since it does have accounting value you can claim you spent 1$ by shooting it in the forest. Once the war is over the us can get the 1$ back from ukraine in various ways, and therefore it made a profit out of nothing. Edit: if the equipment is new then the 1$ spent is basically a subsidy for the local weapons industry and the workers building it.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    That's not how Ukraine Lend-Lease works. If you give someone else a bow and arrow, in exchange for an IOU for $1 for the arrow and $100 for the bow, you get your money back by collecting on the note. (Now, its true that Lend-Lease allows hiring US contractors for reconstruction as an alternative to direct repayment, but, how the money gets back to the US isn’t a mystery.)
- andrewmcwatters 3y ago
  I agree that stronger international ties help us all. If the able do not help when they are able, the unable will see and know. And there may be a day when the able become unable and the tides turn.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Turning arms and munitions that we’ve already manufactured and stockpiled back into money is surprisingly difficult.

by clipsy 3y ago

Turning arms and munitions that we’ve already manufactured and stockpiled back into money is surprisingly difficult.

sieabahlpark 3y ago

[dead]

gumballindie 3y ago

What gp fails to understand is that those 117b do exactly that - turn stock piles back into money. A lot of the money for ukraine actually goes back to us manufacturers and are not wired into ukranian banks. Furthermore by honouring treaties and standing up to bullies the us is gaining a lot of soft power. As a european i want to see more american products in europe and i most certainly will be a strong supporter of your country.

phendrenad2 3y ago
If you have a bow & arrow, and you spent $1 for the arrow, and you fire it into the forest, how did you get your $1 back? This isn't a trick question.
- voakbasda 3y ago
  If the us government owns the bow and arrow, it calls up the contractor that made the arrow and orders another one. The taxpayers foot the bill.
  - klyrs 3y ago
    Do the taxpayers actually foot the bill? Or does the government print money, and recover taxes to prevent runaway inflation? And what happens if we stockpile munitions and don't use them? They age, get destroyed and replenished. The military is continually burning money to keep its stockpiles up to date anyway, and if we're sending stuff to Ukraine before it expires, that accelerates the replenishment, but I'd argue that it's better than the alternative.
    - hanniabu 3y ago
      > Do the taxpayers actually foot the bill? Or does the government print money, and recover taxes to prevent runaway inflation? Taxpayers, aka citizens, foot the bill in both cases
    - wernercd 3y ago
      The rampant inflation from "government print money" seems to show that yes, even if we aren't paying for it directly (and our 30t+ in debt says we are paying for it.)... we are paying for the "print free money" at the gas pump, the grocery store, etc.
      - klyrs 3y ago
        Alternate perspective: grocerers and oil producers form cartels and raise prices to line their pockets. The only people whose wages are beating inflation are at the executive level, and they really love it when you point pitchforks at the government and not them.
        wernercd 3y ago
        realistic perspective: it's not a single problem. Oil producers and cartels raise prices because... money's being printed. Because Biden shuts down new pipelines, slows oil leases, is hostile to energy production. Demand craters because of lockdowns that don't work... then ramps up because the world tries to return to normal after a "pandemic". Almost like an increasing demand with a dipshit anti-energy President is going to have disastrously bad results. Seriously though... the problem isn't "evil companies" doing shit like making money (how dare they!). The problem is multifaceted. Did you have an issue when companies closed at record levels because of bad decisions that caused the slowdowns? Or were you cheering because those companies got what was coming? do you think that the surviving companies don't deserve profits after years of losses?
- gumballindie 3y ago
  It is a valid question. The way i see it is that the equipment sent to ukraine is either old and rusty or not in use. So while in theory you spent money by shooting an arrow, in practice you havent since it wasnt in use anyway. But since it does have accounting value you can claim you spent 1$ by shooting it in the forest. Once the war is over the us can get the 1$ back from ukraine in various ways, and therefore it made a profit out of nothing. Edit: if the equipment is new then the 1$ spent is basically a subsidy for the local weapons industry and the workers building it.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  That's not how Ukraine Lend-Lease works. If you give someone else a bow and arrow, in exchange for an IOU for $1 for the arrow and $100 for the bow, you get your money back by collecting on the note. (Now, its true that Lend-Lease allows hiring US contractors for reconstruction as an alternative to direct repayment, but, how the money gets back to the US isn’t a mystery.)
andrewmcwatters 3y ago
I agree that stronger international ties help us all. If the able do not help when they are able, the unable will see and know. And there may be a day when the able become unable and the tides turn.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]