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"One resident was recorded spitting in the hallway" Im sure this wasn't the only thing used for the eviction but if it was that is clearly over the line. With

• dghlsakjg 3y ago
  You can still figure out who spit on something without a dragnet of ai and facial recognition being applied to every resident. That way you don’t have to hassle a blind lady to formally explain why someone bringing her groceries is using her key fob. To find the guy who spits, you can just rewind the tape.
  • cookieperson 3y ago
    It is overzealous. Imagine if every minor crime or social faux pas you've ever committed was logged, stored to disk, and accessible to various for profit 3rd parties. Little bit dystopian. Middle and upper class people can pay the fines and fees. It's the lower class who end up in prison or homeless.
    • sokoloff 3y ago
      How many people are spitting in the hallway of the place they live or visit? I certainly could pay any fine that would be assessed, because that fine would be assessed zero times. If you’re in a living situation where neighbors are regularly spitting in the common areas, I can understand the appeal of a system that would bring that to an end.
      • cookieperson 3y ago
        How many kids played ding ding ditch as a kid? How many teenagers stole a pack of gum as a dare? How many drunk college kids peed on a tree in a public place? Should that kid get a citation? Should that kid end up in small claims court? Should that student be a sex offender and serve time as such? We all agree these things are crimes and people shouldn't do them. But people do stupid crap all the time and US already incarcerates more of it's people than any other country in the world. It's a slippery slope in my mind.
        • pdntspa 3y ago
          [flagged]
          • waboremo 3y ago
            Threatening unnecessary violence is another strike against your social credit score.
          • dghlsakjg 3y ago
            Being intentionally annoyed by kids isn’t a license to “kick their shit in” and is far more antisocial than any of the completely nonviolent nuisance cited that I’ve ever seen or had happen. Don’t steal gum, but more than that, don’t commit felony assault.
            • pdntspa 3y ago
              How far has society fallen if people who make a point of pissing off other people don't deserve a beatdown? We're getting soft!
              • dghlsakjg 3y ago
                I guess we’re just gonna have to disagree on the controversial topic of… checks notes… vigilante adults beating children for perceived annoyances and petty theft.
        • cookieperson 3y ago
      • Spooky23 3y ago
        This example is chosen because it’s gross. Nobody is pro-spitting. It’s less “ok” to people if you say “A public venue is banning an individual because she works for a company our company dislikes.” If you’re in this space at all, you should be concerned about this. If you live in a major area, hundreds of locations are running LPR on your car or have cameras capable of facial recognition. As more entities start exchanging that data, your movements are available to anyone willing to pay. Once you open the door to this, it’s easy to go awful things in the name of quality of life. Perhaps your landlord doesn’t like your ethnicity or religion, won’t rent to folks who’ve spent time in certain places, for example.
        • rahimnathwani 3y ago
          "Perhaps your landlord doesn’t like your ethnicity or religion" At least in the US, this type of discrimination is illegal.
          • bsder 3y ago
            Good luck proving it. And the poor don't even have the money to access the system to get redress. How many groups in tech are a single ethnicity or religion managed by that same ethnicity or religion? I bet the number isn't small.
          • Spooky23 3y ago
            Sure. How do you prove that a landlord determined that your last name didn’t match some list and you’ve spent time in Dearborn, MI?
          • cookieperson 3y ago
            It's really hard for poor people or even moderately wealthy people to enter legal battles like these against corporations. A corp can delay trial for five yrs. Having a lawyer on retainer for even 4 months would bankrupt most Americans... The law isn't really about what's right, but who can pay to decide what is.
      • mathisfun123 3y ago
        > I certainly could pay any fine that would be assessed, because that fine would be assessed zero times. ah the "if you have nothing to hide" approach. people that occupy this perspective never withstand the level of scrutiny they espouse - i am 100% certain that if i observed you for a ~1 week i would find punishable offenses. and then you would wilt and say "well i didn't mean those things". yes that's the point - systems like this are aimed at a particular category of offenses and blind to another.
        • iinnPP 3y ago
          The poster only mentioned spitting, not every little offense.
          • dghlsakjg 3y ago
            The article mentioned a case of loaning someone their key fob to get groceries for them. The offender in question was a blind person being helped by an assistant. So, yes, EVERY little thing.
            • iinnPP 3y ago
              The poster specifically mentioned spitting and said nothing about the other scenario.
              • dghlsakjg 3y ago
                They were commenting on an article that mentioned the blind person that got swept up by the same technology. Spitting in public areas is bad, algorithmically threatening blind people with eviction for getting help is, in my view, an order of magnitude worse.
          • mathisfun123 3y ago
            this is just more of the same thing that i'm pointing out - people who claim these kinds of retorts refrains have no imagination and/or have never been the victims of similar systems. yes, trust me (and absolutely everyone that rages against this), they do and will and must inevitably target every little offense.
      • dennis_jeeves1 3y ago
        >I certainly could pay any fine that would be assessed, because that fine would be assessed zero times. You are so well damn so sure of that. Idiot.
    • milsorgen 3y ago
      I can't recall the last minor crime I committed. Granted I know I must of committed crimes recently due to the state of our labyrinthine system. I don't even jaywalk when I'm out on my 1AM nights walks. I have trouble relating with that sentiment, its not hard to be a good member of your community. As for every faux pas? Well I came to terms with being recorded the moment I step out the door. I would of gladly fought with anyone to stop the encroachment of video surveillance but sadly few cared and now its too late. 3rd parties have probably been using most of that data for years by now. I am taking this article a big heap of salt, we need more accountability in this world not less. Now maybe this isn't the right way to go about it but what's the alternative? We dismantled much of our communities and families, stigmatized shaming people and all the natural human things that keep people following best practices in life have been dismantled or have fallen apart.
      • Spooky23 3y ago
        You’ve never rolled though a stop? Drove 28 in a 25? You say you walk at 1AM. Why? Maybe your pattern of walks aligns with when some Nextdoor.com Karen thinks there’s a pervert lurking around scaring her cats.
      • Avshalom 3y ago
        >I know I must of committed crimes recently due to the state of our labyrinthine system Well hey good news, the cameras are automated now and they know all the crimes.
  • tiku 3y ago
    You know how much work that is? Especially over a timespan of 3 days for example. If people would behave this all wouldn't be necessary.
    • SoftTalker 3y ago
      They criticize me for harping on the obvious; if all the folks in the United States would do the few simple things they know they ought to do, most of our big problems would take care of themselves. --Calvin Coolidge
    • dghlsakjg 3y ago
      Not that hard at all. Check on noon of each day to see if the offending loogie is present or not. Now your search is down to 24 hours where the loogie was not present on noon of one day and was present on noon of the next. Check at midnight, go forward or back six hours as necessary… 3 hours… 1.5 hours. Pretty simple as ping as we’re not using a linear access system like vhs, which we aren’t since it’s 2023 and scrubbing through 72 hours of video is trivial.
• Avshalom 3y ago
  and now he's evicted -from public housing- so what do you think the next move here is? My guess is he'll bounce back and forth from jail to the street until he dies. feels like an extra janitor would be a better solution here rather than a surveillance state.
  • iinnPP 3y ago
    The easiest solution is not to spit. It's a no brainer, anti-action. It requires no effort, instead it is less effort. Your guess is probably not correct either. The cameras may literally save lives. I form this opinion from experience, do you? The cameras being there sucks. Dying is worse. Using the footage for petty offenses sucks and shouldn't happen. I just don't think the example invokes any kind of feeling of injustice as seemingly intended. And wanted to point it out that I didn't believe it was the only reason. Having said all that, a janitor only fixes the one problem. It also introduces new potential problems. A nosy janitor can do a lot more harm to disadvantaged people than a camera. And 24 hour janitorial is more like 4 janitors, not 1. Who is paying for them? Just don't spit, especially indoors. Simple.
    • waboremo 3y ago
      If the easiest action is not to spit, why did he continue spitting? Let's move on from spitting, as it's a dull example, but into behaviors in general. How do you get someone to stop doing something? Punishment does not work. Telling someone not to do something only encourages them to do it even more. So, like most other solutions, we can instead work off incentivizing positive action. We saw this with smokers, you give them a designated area, a place to put out their smokes, alongside restrictions like not smoking indoors, and you've got a winning combination. Likewise, we need thorough solutions to behavioral problems, not "easy" ones. Easy ones don't last long. Habits remain. If cameras save lives, why do you not have a camera in every room in your home?
      • iinnPP 3y ago
        I can't tell you why this specific person spits, nor can anyone. I can only state that as a person who has lived in social housing, cameras were what made it possible. Even with these cameras, the building I was in was responsible for a whopping 50% of homicides in my city for the ~year I was there. Having AI do the work and catching this garbage behavior would have been welcomed by many residents, and unwelcomed by the people spitting on the elevator buttons, doorknobs, entry system, and mailboxes. Which was a daily occurrence. Punishment does work. It works to get those people out and get people who can be decent human beings in. It is punishment to the other residents to let it continue unabated. Your camera comment is odd. I know the cameras saved lives. Witnessed it with my own two eyes. You also don't know what cameras exist in my home, maybe I do have one in every room? It is a deterrent that reminds a person who may think twice about their actions because of the increased probability of being punished. Go walk through some social housing without cameras while wearing expensive shoes and jewelry. Do it daily for a year. That will change your perspective, assuming you are still around to provide it.