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Growing up in Canada, I remember asking my parents why it was okay to make fun of Americans, but not people from any other country. The answer didn’t make much

Growing up in Canada, I remember asking my parents why it was okay to make fun of Americans, but not people from any other country. The answer didn’t make much sense at the time, but I chalked it up as something that I’d understand as an adult. Now as an adult I still don’t really get it. Reminding themselves of their own perceived inferiority seems like a uniquely rich-American past time. Do you think Scientific Brazil (if it existed) would release a study broadly painting its citizens in such a bad light? What if the study had found the opposite, that Americans broadly displayed some positive trait more than their Asian counterparts, would such a study even be allowed to be published? I certainly can’t imagine it being received well, if it were. The country which has more people (by a long shot) spending their lives trying to become citizens also has the most present citizens vocally declaring it a broken failure. It’s just never really made much sense to me.

cumshitpiss 3y ago
[dead]
sfpotter 3y ago
A lot of the people declaring it broken don’t want it to fail.
gumballindie 3y ago
> I remember asking my parents why it was okay to make fun of Americans, but not people from any other country. A bit like in europe where you can criticise germany all you want. Since they know their worth and are secure enough they wont mind. Some may even jump in. Similarly east europeans dont hesitate to criticise their own countries. Criticise south europe and you’ll never hear the end of it. The US is secure enough for critical self reflection. Canada and brazil not so much.
- iinnPP 3y ago
  Canadians make light of themselves all the time. Americans are not really "known" for critical self reflection, the opposite maybe. Just look at the slew of jokes about traveling abroad and claiming to be Canadian. Now if you want to see Canadian "politeness" in action, read the comment section on CBC.
  - laratied 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - kcplate 3y ago
    > Now if you want to see Canadian "politeness" in action… In my experience Canadians are quite polite to other Canadians, but not necessarily to non-Canadians
    - iinnPP 3y ago
      People who are polite don't discriminate based on silly lines on a map or anything based on appearance or even invisible traits. The CBC comment section is more toxic than the birth child of a terrible subreddit and the worst 1000 games of League of Legends.
      - gumballindie 3y ago
        To be fair comment sections everywhere are toxic regardless of country or culture.
        iinnPP 3y ago
        I find it to be the most toxic comment section I have come across. I also see the moderated comments, which just make it worse. From supposedly polite Canadians.
        gumballindie 3y ago
        Whatever you do dont read the dailymail (uk) comment section and dont attempt to translate the comment section of any non english speaking european tabloid.
        ojhughes 3y ago
        50% of the daily mail commenters seem to be Americans
- moltar 3y ago
  Haha, you are so on point! I was born in Eastern Europe and raised in Canada. Recently I moved to Southern Europe and had the audacity to criticize some practices. I was almost nuked from the orbit and all of the perceived faults were vehemently defended. That was quite a culture shock to me.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    Just the other day i had a lecture here on hn by a south european about how east european countries should leave the eu if they dont like the current state of affairs. Something something gratefulness bread and butter, etc. In some cultures constructive criticism is seen as a negative thing while in some it is done precisely because you want to improve that which you love. The issue is that cultures that dont appreciate it will use self criticism against you. Thats in my experience.
    - jemmyw 3y ago
      I don't know that it's a cultural thing than resentment. Southern EU countries were doing tremendously well out of the EU until the 2008 gfc and then their strategy was shown to be um less than wise. Eastern EU countries have not (yet) fallen into that debt trap and seem to be generally on the up. It'd be nice if Europeans didn't get quite so attached to their own country's performance in games they have little influence over.
  - adev_ 3y ago
    > I was almost nuked from the orbit and all of the perceived faults were vehemently defended You might also just describe perception biased here too. If I take Italy as an example, you might get "nuked from orbit" (from an eastern European perspective) just because you said your pizza looks better than the one of your friend next table. And that has nothing with a "lack of self criticism". It is just how basic social interaction are there. Arguments/spicy conversation are the norm in some culture. Not the exception. The conclusion is: Behavior study is hard because your perception of "the norm" is always relative to your culture.
    - 3y ago
Jeff_Brown 3y ago
Because punching down isn't as funny. Take that, Canada ;)
hotpotamus 3y ago
One of the rules of comedy is that if you don't want to be an ass, you punch up; not down. It's why you make fun of wealthy people but not children with Down's Syndrome. As far as to the existence of American Exceptionalism, and what it means, I think that's beyond me.
- brigadier132 3y ago
  > One of the rules of comedy is that if you don't want to be an ass, you punch up; not down Seems like a self serving made up rule. Especially now that everyone has found some way to be a victim.
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    The funny thing is that the people who feel aggrieved that "everyone has found some way to be a victim" are finding their own way to become a victim. The snake is really eating its tail.
    - brigadier132 3y ago
      > The funny thing is that the people who feel aggrieved that "everyone has found some way to be a victim" Explain how I'm claiming to be a victim. Does calling out spineless and characterless people imply I've been victimized?
      - hotpotamus 3y ago
        Are you one of the people who feel aggrieved at victim culture?
        brigadier132 3y ago
        No, I've benefited from it because I'm "hispanic".
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
> Growing up in Canada, I remember asking my parents why it was okay to make fun of Americans, but not people from any other country. It's surprising to me how much the word "American" has been appropriated to just mean people from the U.S., when surely as a Canadian, you're also American (i.e. living in North America). As a UK resident, it would be considered entirely incorrect to use the term "British" to refer to just the English and almost unthinkable for a Welsh person to also abide by that usage.
- aleph_minus_one 3y ago
  > It's surprising to me how much the word "American" has been appropriated to just mean people from the U.S., when surely as a Canadian, you're also American (i.e. living in North America). Also people from Middle American (Mexico, Guatemala, Cuba, ...) and South American countries (Brazil, Colombia, Argentina, Peru, ...) are Americans. :-)
  - ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
    > Also people from Middle American (Mexico, Guatemala, Cuba, ...) and South American countries (Brazil, Colombia, Argentina, Peru, ...) are Americans. :-) I'd be inclined to refer to Mexico as North America, but then I wouldn't know which countries would be called Middle American
    - qbrass 3y ago
      North America is everything north of South America. Central America is the land between Mexico and South America. It's also part of North America, and also part of Middle America. Middle America is Mexico, Central America, the Caribbean islands, Columbia, and Venezuela. The latter two countries are in South America, the rest is in North America. Middle America is also a term for flyover country in the US. Which is how it's almost always used in the US.
- D13Fd 3y ago
  In the USA, “America” is a name of our country and “Americans” is the name for residents of the country. Canadians, Mexicans, and residents of South America etc are certainly not “Americans”. This isn’t anything new, and it’s not “appropriated”
bjourne 3y ago
> What if the study had found the opposite, that Americans broadly displayed some positive trait more than their Asian counterparts, would such a study even be allowed to be published? I certainly can’t imagine it being received well, if it were. Yes, there are many studies that have found Americans "better" in some metric. It's quite sad to hear that even Hacker News readers have bought into the right-wing notion about academia having to "censor" itself to not offend supposedly politically correct sensibilities.

cumshitpiss 3y ago

[dead]

sfpotter 3y ago

A lot of the people declaring it broken don’t want it to fail.

gumballindie 3y ago

> I remember asking my parents why it was okay to make fun of Americans, but not people from any other country. A bit like in europe where you can criticise germany all you want. Since they know their worth and are secure enough they wont mind. Some may even jump in. Similarly east europeans dont hesitate to criticise their own countries. Criticise south europe and you’ll never hear the end of it. The US is secure enough for critical self reflection. Canada and brazil not so much.

iinnPP 3y ago
Canadians make light of themselves all the time. Americans are not really "known" for critical self reflection, the opposite maybe. Just look at the slew of jokes about traveling abroad and claiming to be Canadian. Now if you want to see Canadian "politeness" in action, read the comment section on CBC.
- laratied 3y ago
  [flagged]
- kcplate 3y ago
  > Now if you want to see Canadian "politeness" in action… In my experience Canadians are quite polite to other Canadians, but not necessarily to non-Canadians
  - iinnPP 3y ago
    People who are polite don't discriminate based on silly lines on a map or anything based on appearance or even invisible traits. The CBC comment section is more toxic than the birth child of a terrible subreddit and the worst 1000 games of League of Legends.
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      To be fair comment sections everywhere are toxic regardless of country or culture.
      - iinnPP 3y ago
        I find it to be the most toxic comment section I have come across. I also see the moderated comments, which just make it worse. From supposedly polite Canadians.
        gumballindie 3y ago
        Whatever you do dont read the dailymail (uk) comment section and dont attempt to translate the comment section of any non english speaking european tabloid.
        ojhughes 3y ago
        50% of the daily mail commenters seem to be Americans
moltar 3y ago
Haha, you are so on point! I was born in Eastern Europe and raised in Canada. Recently I moved to Southern Europe and had the audacity to criticize some practices. I was almost nuked from the orbit and all of the perceived faults were vehemently defended. That was quite a culture shock to me.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  Just the other day i had a lecture here on hn by a south european about how east european countries should leave the eu if they dont like the current state of affairs. Something something gratefulness bread and butter, etc. In some cultures constructive criticism is seen as a negative thing while in some it is done precisely because you want to improve that which you love. The issue is that cultures that dont appreciate it will use self criticism against you. Thats in my experience.
  - jemmyw 3y ago
    I don't know that it's a cultural thing than resentment. Southern EU countries were doing tremendously well out of the EU until the 2008 gfc and then their strategy was shown to be um less than wise. Eastern EU countries have not (yet) fallen into that debt trap and seem to be generally on the up. It'd be nice if Europeans didn't get quite so attached to their own country's performance in games they have little influence over.
- adev_ 3y ago
  > I was almost nuked from the orbit and all of the perceived faults were vehemently defended You might also just describe perception biased here too. If I take Italy as an example, you might get "nuked from orbit" (from an eastern European perspective) just because you said your pizza looks better than the one of your friend next table. And that has nothing with a "lack of self criticism". It is just how basic social interaction are there. Arguments/spicy conversation are the norm in some culture. Not the exception. The conclusion is: Behavior study is hard because your perception of "the norm" is always relative to your culture.
  - 3y ago

Jeff_Brown 3y ago

Because punching down isn't as funny. Take that, Canada ;)

hotpotamus 3y ago

One of the rules of comedy is that if you don't want to be an ass, you punch up; not down. It's why you make fun of wealthy people but not children with Down's Syndrome. As far as to the existence of American Exceptionalism, and what it means, I think that's beyond me.

brigadier132 3y ago
> One of the rules of comedy is that if you don't want to be an ass, you punch up; not down Seems like a self serving made up rule. Especially now that everyone has found some way to be a victim.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  The funny thing is that the people who feel aggrieved that "everyone has found some way to be a victim" are finding their own way to become a victim. The snake is really eating its tail.
  - brigadier132 3y ago
    > The funny thing is that the people who feel aggrieved that "everyone has found some way to be a victim" Explain how I'm claiming to be a victim. Does calling out spineless and characterless people imply I've been victimized?
    - hotpotamus 3y ago
      Are you one of the people who feel aggrieved at victim culture?
      - brigadier132 3y ago
        No, I've benefited from it because I'm "hispanic".
unsupp0rted 3y ago

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago

> Growing up in Canada, I remember asking my parents why it was okay to make fun of Americans, but not people from any other country. It's surprising to me how much the word "American" has been appropriated to just mean people from the U.S., when surely as a Canadian, you're also American (i.e. living in North America). As a UK resident, it would be considered entirely incorrect to use the term "British" to refer to just the English and almost unthinkable for a Welsh person to also abide by that usage.

aleph_minus_one 3y ago
> It's surprising to me how much the word "American" has been appropriated to just mean people from the U.S., when surely as a Canadian, you're also American (i.e. living in North America). Also people from Middle American (Mexico, Guatemala, Cuba, ...) and South American countries (Brazil, Colombia, Argentina, Peru, ...) are Americans. :-)
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  > Also people from Middle American (Mexico, Guatemala, Cuba, ...) and South American countries (Brazil, Colombia, Argentina, Peru, ...) are Americans. :-) I'd be inclined to refer to Mexico as North America, but then I wouldn't know which countries would be called Middle American
  - qbrass 3y ago
    North America is everything north of South America. Central America is the land between Mexico and South America. It's also part of North America, and also part of Middle America. Middle America is Mexico, Central America, the Caribbean islands, Columbia, and Venezuela. The latter two countries are in South America, the rest is in North America. Middle America is also a term for flyover country in the US. Which is how it's almost always used in the US.
D13Fd 3y ago
In the USA, “America” is a name of our country and “Americans” is the name for residents of the country. Canadians, Mexicans, and residents of South America etc are certainly not “Americans”. This isn’t anything new, and it’s not “appropriated”

bjourne 3y ago

> What if the study had found the opposite, that Americans broadly displayed some positive trait more than their Asian counterparts, would such a study even be allowed to be published? I certainly can’t imagine it being received well, if it were. Yes, there are many studies that have found Americans "better" in some metric. It's quite sad to hear that even Hacker News readers have bought into the right-wing notion about academia having to "censor" itself to not offend supposedly politically correct sensibilities.