4 ms·

It’s horrifying that homeschooling is considered child abuse multiple countries.

by tourmalinetaco 3y ago

nibbleshifter 3y ago
Not really. In many cases it cripples the child's social development. Which is child abuse.
- johngladtj 3y ago
  And somehow the prison-scholar complex doesn't count?
  - nibbleshifter 3y ago
    That doesn't exist in my country, we have a tiny prison population.
    - johngladtj 3y ago
      Are you counting the children mandated to go to school as part of that population of prisoners?
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  If that was truly the reason why, and not a convenient excuse, then governments would state mandate social activities and not take children from their parents, which would be just as abusive. Instead, it’s all about mandating government control over children.
- xupybd 3y ago
  I know many home schooled children. I see no evidence of poor social development. In fact I see more emotional scars left by bad interactions at public schools than I do from homeschooling.
  - richardwhiuk 3y ago
    Careful about your experience representing a biased sample. For children who had poor social development likely resulted in less likelihood of knowing you at all.
    - xupybd 3y ago
      I agree. My sample is biased and not a scientific study. I'm involved in a religious group that has a higher rate of homeschooling. But the adults, who were homeschooled, that I've met are some of the most well adjusted, charming and confident people around. Yet I've met some who were bullied in school and have to seek help because of it. That is not to say that you can't do home school wrong and screw up your kids. You totally can.
    - nonethewiser 3y ago
      1 anecdotal experience is all it takes to disprove a sweeping generalization
- dbspin 3y ago
  I'd suggest that this perspective is tainted by the association in the United States between home schooling and religious separatism. Home schooling in Europe (and in some places in the US) is much more often about parents coming together to provide a safer, less structured, less authoritarian, more project based space for their kids to learn. Check out the unschooling movement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling#:~:text=Unschooling%20is%20a%20form%20of,according%20to%20a%20set%20curriculum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling#:~:text=Unschoolin....
  - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
    It’s also tainted by authoritarian regimes indoctrinating people to believe the only ones capable of teaching the children are the aforementioned regimes.
- PostOnce 3y ago
  In your opinion, which should apply to your own children. It might also be argued that "in many cases" sending your children to public school where they'll receive a vastly inferior education is child abuse. In some people's opinion, not teaching your children about Jesus is child abuse, and vice versa. So then who should draw the lines? When should the government and society have a greater say over a child than their own parents? If literacy is falling year after year in a country and the schools are not making changes, should a parent not consider homeschool? My kids attend public school, by the way, but I think this is a worthwhile discussion.
- voisin 3y ago
  In many cases public school cripples a child’s social development and leaves them with anxiety, shame, and other social hang ups for the rest of their life.
- bitlax 3y ago
  Can you quantify the "many cases?" https://www.wbaltv.com/article/students-proficient-math-baltimore-city/43733243 https://www.wbaltv.com/article/students-proficient-math-balt...
mschuster91 3y ago
The problem with homeschooling is that it makes it very easy to hide all kinds of child abuse. In government-run or at least government-audited schools, teachers (who are often mandatory reporters) have a chance to spot signs of sexual, emotional or physical abuse - children who are homeschooled have no one to turn to. Additionally, government-run/-audited schools have a mandate to actually teach children science and facts, whereas homeschooling parents or religious cults often have absolutely zero requirements on what they have to teach their children - no requirements about even basic sexual education, biology, history, maths or ethics. These children often enough are so under-educated the only employment they can find is at some sort of religious cult. Homeschooling without audits is child abuse.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  Public schooling without audits is just as likely, if not more so, to result in child abuse as well.
  - hnlmorg 3y ago
    In which country are public schools allowed to operate without any audit nor oversight?
    - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
      I didn’t say any countries like that existed? Though it wouldn’t shock me. OP said that “homeschooling without audits is child abuse”, and I was pointing out that that is disingenuous since a theoretical public school without audits would be even worse for children. I agree that unaudited homeschooling can result in abuse, but the solution is not to ban homeschooling. It is to create a structure that supports an individual’s right to care for their children. That makes sure the child reaches certain age-dependent markers while giving the parent (and thus, the child) the freedom to explore the world how best suits them.
      - hnlmorg 3y ago
danman114 3y ago
I think the main problem might be that, ok, while there are possibly a lot of people who would try their best to give their kids an education, there’d probably also be a big percentage of people who wouldn’t bother at all. So basically the kids would have no chances to learn, socialize and compete at all. So a) of course schools should be good and safe, but b) people who homeschool should imho show that they put in the effort required to provide for a good education at least in some sense. Otherwise some kids would live in squalor and would have no way out. I always thought that was the original motivation for general school duty, all cynicism about the actual implementation and its weaknesses aside.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  So give homeschool children state-sponsored tests, and if they are falling behind then you have an argument for forcing other schooling. The default should not be “you have no rights as a parent”, as it is in multiple countries.
Angostura 3y ago
It's horrifying that parents decide to isolate their own children and ensure they are only exposed to that subset of knowledge that the parents themselves are comfortable with, in an attempt to mold them into their own likenesses.
- concordDance 3y ago
  This isn't the main motive of the ones I know... where did you get your impression from?

It’s horrifying that homeschooling is considered child abuse multiple countries.

nibbleshifter 3y ago

Not really. In many cases it cripples the child's social development. Which is child abuse.

johngladtj 3y ago
And somehow the prison-scholar complex doesn't count?
- nibbleshifter 3y ago
  That doesn't exist in my country, we have a tiny prison population.
  - johngladtj 3y ago
    Are you counting the children mandated to go to school as part of that population of prisoners?
tourmalinetaco 3y ago
If that was truly the reason why, and not a convenient excuse, then governments would state mandate social activities and not take children from their parents, which would be just as abusive. Instead, it’s all about mandating government control over children.
xupybd 3y ago
I know many home schooled children. I see no evidence of poor social development. In fact I see more emotional scars left by bad interactions at public schools than I do from homeschooling.
- richardwhiuk 3y ago
  Careful about your experience representing a biased sample. For children who had poor social development likely resulted in less likelihood of knowing you at all.
  - xupybd 3y ago
    I agree. My sample is biased and not a scientific study. I'm involved in a religious group that has a higher rate of homeschooling. But the adults, who were homeschooled, that I've met are some of the most well adjusted, charming and confident people around. Yet I've met some who were bullied in school and have to seek help because of it. That is not to say that you can't do home school wrong and screw up your kids. You totally can.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    1 anecdotal experience is all it takes to disprove a sweeping generalization
dbspin 3y ago
I'd suggest that this perspective is tainted by the association in the United States between home schooling and religious separatism. Home schooling in Europe (and in some places in the US) is much more often about parents coming together to provide a safer, less structured, less authoritarian, more project based space for their kids to learn. Check out the unschooling movement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling#:~:text=Unschooling%20is%20a%20form%20of,according%20to%20a%20set%20curriculum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling#:~:text=Unschoolin....
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  It’s also tainted by authoritarian regimes indoctrinating people to believe the only ones capable of teaching the children are the aforementioned regimes.
PostOnce 3y ago
In your opinion, which should apply to your own children. It might also be argued that "in many cases" sending your children to public school where they'll receive a vastly inferior education is child abuse. In some people's opinion, not teaching your children about Jesus is child abuse, and vice versa. So then who should draw the lines? When should the government and society have a greater say over a child than their own parents? If literacy is falling year after year in a country and the schools are not making changes, should a parent not consider homeschool? My kids attend public school, by the way, but I think this is a worthwhile discussion.
voisin 3y ago
In many cases public school cripples a child’s social development and leaves them with anxiety, shame, and other social hang ups for the rest of their life.
bitlax 3y ago
Can you quantify the "many cases?" https://www.wbaltv.com/article/students-proficient-math-baltimore-city/43733243 https://www.wbaltv.com/article/students-proficient-math-balt...

mschuster91 3y ago

The problem with homeschooling is that it makes it very easy to hide all kinds of child abuse. In government-run or at least government-audited schools, teachers (who are often mandatory reporters) have a chance to spot signs of sexual, emotional or physical abuse - children who are homeschooled have no one to turn to. Additionally, government-run/-audited schools have a mandate to actually teach children science and facts, whereas homeschooling parents or religious cults often have absolutely zero requirements on what they have to teach their children - no requirements about even basic sexual education, biology, history, maths or ethics. These children often enough are so under-educated the only employment they can find is at some sort of religious cult. Homeschooling without audits is child abuse.

tourmalinetaco 3y ago
Public schooling without audits is just as likely, if not more so, to result in child abuse as well.
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  In which country are public schools allowed to operate without any audit nor oversight?
  - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
    I didn’t say any countries like that existed? Though it wouldn’t shock me. OP said that “homeschooling without audits is child abuse”, and I was pointing out that that is disingenuous since a theoretical public school without audits would be even worse for children. I agree that unaudited homeschooling can result in abuse, but the solution is not to ban homeschooling. It is to create a structure that supports an individual’s right to care for their children. That makes sure the child reaches certain age-dependent markers while giving the parent (and thus, the child) the freedom to explore the world how best suits them.
    - hnlmorg 3y ago

danman114 3y ago

I think the main problem might be that, ok, while there are possibly a lot of people who would try their best to give their kids an education, there’d probably also be a big percentage of people who wouldn’t bother at all. So basically the kids would have no chances to learn, socialize and compete at all. So a) of course schools should be good and safe, but b) people who homeschool should imho show that they put in the effort required to provide for a good education at least in some sense. Otherwise some kids would live in squalor and would have no way out. I always thought that was the original motivation for general school duty, all cynicism about the actual implementation and its weaknesses aside.

tourmalinetaco 3y ago
So give homeschool children state-sponsored tests, and if they are falling behind then you have an argument for forcing other schooling. The default should not be “you have no rights as a parent”, as it is in multiple countries.

Angostura 3y ago

It's horrifying that parents decide to isolate their own children and ensure they are only exposed to that subset of knowledge that the parents themselves are comfortable with, in an attempt to mold them into their own likenesses.

concordDance 3y ago
This isn't the main motive of the ones I know... where did you get your impression from?