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I was exited about UFOs until I discovered special relatvity.

• nradov 3y ago
  If UFOs are real then that necessarily implies the existence of some new physics beyond general relativity. We thought that Newtonian mechanics could explain everything about motion until we learned that it is only an approximation of relativity. Is it possible that relativity is only an approximation of some more comprehensive theory? Perhaps not, and I am highly skeptical of the whole concept of UFOs in general, but I can't prove a negative.
  • rozal 3y ago
    Enter quantum physics
    • krapp 3y ago
      Quantum physics doesn't violate relativity any more than relativity violates Newton - this is a common myth, but really each model builds on and depends upon the validity of the others, rather than each cancelling the others out. Things like quantum teleportation and entanglement, for instance, are still restricted by the speed of light. Even gravity is restricted by the speed of light - this has been proven experimentally. TANSTAAFL.
      • rozal 3y ago
        quantum gravity may introduce new phenomena related to the behavior of matter and energy. For example, it is hypothesized that quantum gravity effects could lead to violations of certain symmetries or the emergence of new particles or forces, or a method of propulsion.
        • krapp 3y ago
          "Quantum gravity" doesn't even exist as a coherently defined theory yet, there are numerous incomplete models full of flaws, none of which accurately model physics or make predictions well enough to be useful. It certainly isn't in the same weight class of provable science (as in we already build technology that depends on it, and wouldn't work if it wasn't valid) as quantum mechanics, despite sharing the word "quantum."
          • rozal 3y ago
            So did nuclear physics before the bomb dropped
            • krapp 3y ago
              ..no? The Manhattan project was only possible because the science behind nuclear physics was well established enough that its consequences became obvious. Again, as I said earlier, as a result of work that built upon and validated earlier work. You don't even get to the point of building an atomic bomb without thoroughly understanding the principles - and all of those principles were in line with physics as it was understood at the time. Building the bomb was an issue of technology and resources, not exotic, unproven science.
              • rozal 3y ago
                So I guess there was never withheld science in the Manhattan project - correct? And those spies leaking details to the soviets, why bother - it's common knowledge - right? United States is doing the same thing with the Quantum age. Do you think the military is waiting around for mainstream science to protect its economy and military from quantum computers? No. They are pioneering it, in secret.
                • krapp 3y ago
                  >So I guess there was never withheld science in the Manhattan project - correct? And those spies leaking details to the soviets, why bother - it's common knowledge - right? Yes, the science was common knowledge. Berlin scientists first split the uranium atom four years before the Manhattan project even took place. It was common enough that science fiction writers of the time wrote stories about atomic bombs before any bombs were ever built, through extrapolation from established science alone, and Kodak was able to deduce the US was working on an atomic bomb because the radiation from testing fogged up their film stock. That's why there was a race on to be the first to a working implementation of that science, and a working implementation was what the Soviets were interested in. I can guarantee you Soviet scientists already knew what a chain reaction was. Stop acting like you know what you're talking about, the more you comment the more obvious it is that you don't.
  • BizarroLand 3y ago
    There are a decent number of ways that interstellar travel could be accomplished without violating Relativity or requiring super-scifi tech. Generational ships, species that require fewer resources to thrive or that have manipulable hibernation abilities (for instance, if they have antifreeze blood like some jellyfish do, then they could theoretically be kept in suspended animation for a long time without aging or risk of boredom), or if they are incredibly long lived compared to humans for one reason or another. Our best telescopes today can see oxygen in the atmosphere of planets that no living human could ever possibly set foot on regardless of what we did. It's possible that another different civilization could have noticed our planet and sent out a scout vessel 200 years ago just to see if it was a viable alternative planet for them to colonize. But aside from the fun talk of scifi space travel possibilities, I am also very skeptical of UFOs and alien life forms being close enough to meet us during my lifetime. I would need to see them in person to believe that it wasn't yet another hoax.
    • krapp 3y ago
      If they were using generation ships, we would definitely see them because there is no stealth in space and they would have to have a visible heat signature, and they wouldn't be hovering and zipping around the way UFOs are reported to. If we have to take UFO reports at their word, just for the sake of argument, what is described at the very least appears to have some form of non-reactive propulsion that acts like gravity control. Just them being able to move at high velocities without creating a sonic boom or any visible means of propulsion would put them in the realm of using some kind of weird new physics we don't understand.
      • BizarroLand 3y ago
        Maybe. I wonder if solving how to manipulate gravity would also provide a method of surpassing the speed of light at least within a specific bubble?
        • krapp 3y ago
          Even if something like an Alcubierre drive were possible, I wouldn't be surprised if there turned out to be some kind of catch that still limited you to the speed of light.
  • sgbeal 3y ago
    > If UFOs are real then that necessarily implies the existence of some new physics beyond general relativity. One explanation (which i can obviously neither confirm nor deny) is that aliens don't come from Far Away, but from neighboring dimensions.
    • krapp 3y ago
      I'm not an expert but from what little I know from a casual interest in these things, crossing dimensions should be even less possible than going faster than light. Like you would need to burn the energy of an entire universe to do it.
  • worik 3y ago
    > If UFOs are real then that necessarily implies the existence of some new physics beyond general relativity. Why? If I lived for a million years then interstellar travel would be feasible for me with the physics we know. We have trouble defining "life" in general terms because we only know of this planet. If intelligent life developed (some say it has developed here :-) in the universe then there is no predicting what form it would take. We may not recognise it, or it us
• RealityVoid 3y ago
  Maybe yes, maybe no? I mean, presuming the limitation that you can't travel faster than light and you have beings with highly advanced technology somewhere "near" as in < 100 light years away, it would be possible they decided to send an expedition our way sometime ago and they're hanging around somewhere in the solar system. They could have tech that makes this less of a inconvenience than it would be for us. If for example if they had some way of hibernating the interstellar travel time, but any sort of help from the home planet would still be decades away, staying put, observing and limited contact would be a possible kind of behavior one might choose. They would be technologically advanced, but still lack the numbers for any kind of "safe" interaction with us from their point of view.
• el_don_almighty 3y ago
  That's why I wear my 'WWSSAT' wristband.. What Would Sabine Say About This? She says there might be a chance...