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>>[the] weapon proved effective in neutralizing multiple targets even though it had never before been tested against the types of drones used in the trial. Pre

>>[the] weapon proved effective in neutralizing multiple targets even though it had never before been tested against the types of drones used in the trial. Presumably THOR was tested against American and/or foreign-made retail drones, and not foreign military-grade drones. Hardened electronics aren't a new concept.

awestroke 3y ago
Still a good thing that they can stop massively asymmetric attacks (huge number of cheap drones with cheap explosives)
DirectorKrennic 3y ago
I presume that the Defense Department's experts are well aware of these things. The article is sparse in details. Maybe they did test this new capability on "military-grade" drones, whatever "military-grade" means. Military technology isn't always superior to civilian, commercial technology, as anyone with even a passive familiarity with government acquisitions could attest. Both Ukraine and Russia have resorted to modified commercial drones in the Ukraine war. A North Korean drone was once recovered that was nothing more than a piece of crap with a cheap camera mounted[1]. Really, the only serious and adversarial competitor in the drone space is China. [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/suspected-north-korean-drones-low-tech-but-south-on-high-alert/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/suspected-north-korean-drones-l...
- jstarfish 3y ago
  > While the capture of the two surveillance drones appears to offer a rare glimpse into the North's technology, analysts stress they do not necessarily represent the best unmanned aerial vehicles the North can field. Always be skeptical of aggressive mimicry. A "piece of crap with a cheap camera" is cheap and disposable-- and misleads those quick to jump to conclusions. It's what you deliberately throw over the fence when you want adversaries to think you're underequipped. They have nukes for fuck's sake. They can afford real drones.
sorokod 3y ago
May be true, but a lot of the stuff flying over Ukraine is retail. Future conflicts may be similar. DJIs seem to be popular https://gagadget.com/en/153538-ukrainian-intelligence-service-will-receive-78-dji-matrice-300-rtk-drones-for-uah56160000-30-drones-already-in-ukraine/ https://gagadget.com/en/153538-ukrainian-intelligence-servic...
nonethewiser 3y ago
This is so snarky I cant tell if its genuine or mocking.
justapassenger 3y ago
Hardening against really high energy pulses adds weight, and quite a lot of it. And flying things don't like weight. It'll be arms race, as always.
- paganel 3y ago
  > It'll be arms race, as always. Example: You send 10-15 cheap drones against a side that employs THOR. When the drones get close to the target THOR will activate itself and bring down those 10-15 cheap drones, and thus revealing its position. You then target THOR directly either with artillery or with a slightly more expensive missile. Once THOR is out you can then send 100 to 200 cheap drones. Rinse and repeat.
  - ianferrel 3y ago
    Yep. But the picture shows it mounted on a trailer, so its position doesn't have to be static.
    - paganel 3y ago
      In theory, yes, in practice, it's more complicated. Supposedly a similar thing happened with the recent attack on the Patriot system in Kiev, i.e. the Russians first sent some cheep Geran drones, the Ukrainians shot them down activating the radars around the Patriot system (or part of the Patriot system? not that clear), then the Russians sent some anti-radar missiles that took those Ukrainian radars out and in the third and last stage they sent some more advanced missiles that directly targeted and damaged the Patriot (which was by then without radar protection). Almost all images of radar systems that I saw from this war in Ukraine involved mobile units, both on the Ukrainians' and on the Russians' side.
      - jandrewrogers 3y ago
        That's not how it works, the Patriot is a completely self-contained distributed system with a lot of redundancy. It has its own networked radars that can track both missile and aircraft threats. In the instance you are referring to, the Russians tried to flood the zone with a mixture of flight profiles simultaneously (ballistic, cruise, and drone) to overwhelm and complicate the defense. An air defense missile optimized for ballistic missiles won't be great for cruise missiles and vice versa. Patriot batteries contain different missiles optimized for aircraft/cruise missiles (PAC-2) and ballistic missiles (PAC-3). While there are human operators, the Patriot has a fully autonomous mode that is turned on for large-scale attacks like most integrated defense systems produced by the US. When that mode is enabled humans are no longer in the loop; the networked computers engage all of the targets simultaneously, selecting the optimal weapon assignment and timing for each target. That was clearly used here. If the Patriot didn't have radar it wouldn't work and it clearly worked. No Patriot system was damaged by Russian attacks, there is no evidence that anything got through. The only reported damage was an auxiliary system component getting hit by a large piece of falling debris, which was promptly repaired.
tracker1 3y ago
I would assume any such drones would be larger/heavier and in fewer relative numbers. As such, able to be dealt with by conventional means (surface to air missile defense).
bitcurious 3y ago
> Presumably THOR was tested against American and/or foreign-made retail drones, and not foreign military-grade drones. Hardened electronics aren't a new concept. So your assumption is that the airforce can’t source a military grade drone to test with?

awestroke 3y ago

Still a good thing that they can stop massively asymmetric attacks (huge number of cheap drones with cheap explosives)

DirectorKrennic 3y ago

I presume that the Defense Department's experts are well aware of these things. The article is sparse in details. Maybe they did test this new capability on "military-grade" drones, whatever "military-grade" means. Military technology isn't always superior to civilian, commercial technology, as anyone with even a passive familiarity with government acquisitions could attest. Both Ukraine and Russia have resorted to modified commercial drones in the Ukraine war. A North Korean drone was once recovered that was nothing more than a piece of crap with a cheap camera mounted[1]. Really, the only serious and adversarial competitor in the drone space is China. [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/suspected-north-korean-drones-low-tech-but-south-on-high-alert/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/suspected-north-korean-drones-l...

jstarfish 3y ago
> While the capture of the two surveillance drones appears to offer a rare glimpse into the North's technology, analysts stress they do not necessarily represent the best unmanned aerial vehicles the North can field. Always be skeptical of aggressive mimicry. A "piece of crap with a cheap camera" is cheap and disposable-- and misleads those quick to jump to conclusions. It's what you deliberately throw over the fence when you want adversaries to think you're underequipped. They have nukes for fuck's sake. They can afford real drones.

sorokod 3y ago

May be true, but a lot of the stuff flying over Ukraine is retail. Future conflicts may be similar. DJIs seem to be popular https://gagadget.com/en/153538-ukrainian-intelligence-service-will-receive-78-dji-matrice-300-rtk-drones-for-uah56160000-30-drones-already-in-ukraine/ https://gagadget.com/en/153538-ukrainian-intelligence-servic...

nonethewiser 3y ago

This is so snarky I cant tell if its genuine or mocking.

justapassenger 3y ago

Hardening against really high energy pulses adds weight, and quite a lot of it. And flying things don't like weight. It'll be arms race, as always.

paganel 3y ago
> It'll be arms race, as always. Example: You send 10-15 cheap drones against a side that employs THOR. When the drones get close to the target THOR will activate itself and bring down those 10-15 cheap drones, and thus revealing its position. You then target THOR directly either with artillery or with a slightly more expensive missile. Once THOR is out you can then send 100 to 200 cheap drones. Rinse and repeat.
- ianferrel 3y ago
  Yep. But the picture shows it mounted on a trailer, so its position doesn't have to be static.
  - paganel 3y ago
    In theory, yes, in practice, it's more complicated. Supposedly a similar thing happened with the recent attack on the Patriot system in Kiev, i.e. the Russians first sent some cheep Geran drones, the Ukrainians shot them down activating the radars around the Patriot system (or part of the Patriot system? not that clear), then the Russians sent some anti-radar missiles that took those Ukrainian radars out and in the third and last stage they sent some more advanced missiles that directly targeted and damaged the Patriot (which was by then without radar protection). Almost all images of radar systems that I saw from this war in Ukraine involved mobile units, both on the Ukrainians' and on the Russians' side.
    - jandrewrogers 3y ago
      That's not how it works, the Patriot is a completely self-contained distributed system with a lot of redundancy. It has its own networked radars that can track both missile and aircraft threats. In the instance you are referring to, the Russians tried to flood the zone with a mixture of flight profiles simultaneously (ballistic, cruise, and drone) to overwhelm and complicate the defense. An air defense missile optimized for ballistic missiles won't be great for cruise missiles and vice versa. Patriot batteries contain different missiles optimized for aircraft/cruise missiles (PAC-2) and ballistic missiles (PAC-3). While there are human operators, the Patriot has a fully autonomous mode that is turned on for large-scale attacks like most integrated defense systems produced by the US. When that mode is enabled humans are no longer in the loop; the networked computers engage all of the targets simultaneously, selecting the optimal weapon assignment and timing for each target. That was clearly used here. If the Patriot didn't have radar it wouldn't work and it clearly worked. No Patriot system was damaged by Russian attacks, there is no evidence that anything got through. The only reported damage was an auxiliary system component getting hit by a large piece of falling debris, which was promptly repaired.

tracker1 3y ago

I would assume any such drones would be larger/heavier and in fewer relative numbers. As such, able to be dealt with by conventional means (surface to air missile defense).

bitcurious 3y ago

> Presumably THOR was tested against American and/or foreign-made retail drones, and not foreign military-grade drones. Hardened electronics aren't a new concept. So your assumption is that the airforce can’t source a military grade drone to test with?