3 ms·

I'm not sure why "it stops working when you stop taking it" is used as an argument against these new peptides. This is the way almost every medication we encoun

I'm not sure why "it stops working when you stop taking it" is used as an argument against these new peptides. This is the way almost every medication we encounter works. Tylenol might get rid of your headache, but that headache can come back tomorrow. Stop taking birth control and you might get pregnant. Stop taking Claritin and your allergies return. Stop taking insulin, and, as with these new peptides, you lose control over your blood sugar. Stop taking Adderall, and not only will your ADHD symptoms come back, you'll also experience withdrawal. Almost no medications are "one and done", and I'm not sure why Ozempic or Mounjaro are being held to needing to be a cure when it's clear that they're effective, repeatable treatments for blood sugar control and (likely related) weight gain.

iwanttocomment 3y ago
(If the answer is "because you'll learn to eat less or eat in a more healthy fashion", it may well be that the metabolic issues that are creating heightened blood sugar or appetite issues may not be able to be resolved by diet alone in those who respond well to these peptides.)
mym1990 3y ago
I am not holding Ozempic to needing to be the cure for anything. My point is that people without diabetes are looking to this drug for weight loss, at which point they create a dangerous dependency, with no hard evidence that their actual health improves. This is opposed to coming up with long term solutions that involve re-evaluating daily decisions that lead to some of these diseases in the first place. If Ozempic is a good treatment for blood sugar control, which could be a good factor to consider in weight fluctuation, maybe reduce the amount of sugar one eats?
- iwanttocomment 3y ago
  Is it really a dangerous dependency? There's been no evidence of anything happening once individuals go off of semaglutide or tirzepatide other than the tendency of gaining weight to the original levels and/or blood sugar readings returning to the pre-medication levels. This is the most common outcome anyone has trying literally any calorie-reducing diet, medication or not. There's no evidence that people are ending up worse for having been on the medication, except for some who experience gastro effects early on and can simply quit. Also, yes, you can absolutely advocate for a low-carb/low-sugar diet for those with poor blood sugar control. The issue there is that virtually every medical professional has advocated for similar diets for diabetics or those with blood sugar control issues for centuries, or even millennia - there is evidence of recommended diets for those with diabetes since BCE. This does not mean that those diets are easy or pleasant to follow, whereas all evidence indicates that common issues with appetite and energy on a limited calorie or low-carb diet are less prevalent with these new peptides than those trying to go it alone.
  - mym1990 3y ago
    I don’t necessarily mean dangerous in the health aspect, although long term affects of these drugs are not know yet…I mean the dependency on needed the drug to keep a certain lifestyle, and then having an “oh shit” moment when you’re in a place that you can’t access it, whether that be traveling or the supply of it becomes scarce, or it gets banned, etc
    - reaperman 3y ago
      That sounds like the lesser of two evils to me. Get healthier now and maybe sometime later lose access to the thing that helps you be healthier...or don't get healthier now? Yeah, there are other, orthogonal, choices but I don't think they're part of this particular decision matrix.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - nwienert 3y ago
        Yep. I lost 30lbs on it in 3 months. It took me 10 years to gain that weight. So I guess if it takes me 10 more years to gain it back I can look into taking it again.
        unparagoned 3y ago
        People usually gain back that weight much quicker. All it could take is one bad month and you could gain it all back.
        nwienert 3y ago
        Totally impossible. I’d have to be eating like way more than I ever have to do that. I went off for three months and kept losing weight throughout. And the data from these drugs shows they gain it back at regular rate at most.
        3y ago
- Ginden 3y ago
  > This is opposed to coming up with long term solutions that involve re-evaluating daily decisions that lead to some of these diseases in the first place. Medicine tried this. It's extremely hard to actually to do it in practice. Obviously, it's better solution, but we are living in real world, where we have to choose "good enough" solutions over those deemed "better, but infeasible for 90% of patients".
  - smileysteve 3y ago
    "re-evaluating daily decisions" is exactly what suppressing these hormones allow people to do; so that they can make rational instead of hormone driven decisions.
- KingMob 3y ago
  > My point is that people without diabetes are looking to this drug for weight loss, at which point they create a dangerous dependency, with no hard evidence that their actual health improves. These drugs would have to be pretty bad to counteract the massive health benefits from losing weight (even if they don't have diabetes). I've heard a few eye-openers in the comments, but unless they're more prevalent than I've read, or there's some ticking time bomb, the drugs are probably still a net health benefit.

iwanttocomment 3y ago

(If the answer is "because you'll learn to eat less or eat in a more healthy fashion", it may well be that the metabolic issues that are creating heightened blood sugar or appetite issues may not be able to be resolved by diet alone in those who respond well to these peptides.)

mym1990 3y ago

I am not holding Ozempic to needing to be the cure for anything. My point is that people without diabetes are looking to this drug for weight loss, at which point they create a dangerous dependency, with no hard evidence that their actual health improves. This is opposed to coming up with long term solutions that involve re-evaluating daily decisions that lead to some of these diseases in the first place. If Ozempic is a good treatment for blood sugar control, which could be a good factor to consider in weight fluctuation, maybe reduce the amount of sugar one eats?

iwanttocomment 3y ago
Is it really a dangerous dependency? There's been no evidence of anything happening once individuals go off of semaglutide or tirzepatide other than the tendency of gaining weight to the original levels and/or blood sugar readings returning to the pre-medication levels. This is the most common outcome anyone has trying literally any calorie-reducing diet, medication or not. There's no evidence that people are ending up worse for having been on the medication, except for some who experience gastro effects early on and can simply quit. Also, yes, you can absolutely advocate for a low-carb/low-sugar diet for those with poor blood sugar control. The issue there is that virtually every medical professional has advocated for similar diets for diabetics or those with blood sugar control issues for centuries, or even millennia - there is evidence of recommended diets for those with diabetes since BCE. This does not mean that those diets are easy or pleasant to follow, whereas all evidence indicates that common issues with appetite and energy on a limited calorie or low-carb diet are less prevalent with these new peptides than those trying to go it alone.
- mym1990 3y ago
  I don’t necessarily mean dangerous in the health aspect, although long term affects of these drugs are not know yet…I mean the dependency on needed the drug to keep a certain lifestyle, and then having an “oh shit” moment when you’re in a place that you can’t access it, whether that be traveling or the supply of it becomes scarce, or it gets banned, etc
  - reaperman 3y ago
    That sounds like the lesser of two evils to me. Get healthier now and maybe sometime later lose access to the thing that helps you be healthier...or don't get healthier now? Yeah, there are other, orthogonal, choices but I don't think they're part of this particular decision matrix.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - nwienert 3y ago
      Yep. I lost 30lbs on it in 3 months. It took me 10 years to gain that weight. So I guess if it takes me 10 more years to gain it back I can look into taking it again.
      - unparagoned 3y ago
        People usually gain back that weight much quicker. All it could take is one bad month and you could gain it all back.
        nwienert 3y ago
        Totally impossible. I’d have to be eating like way more than I ever have to do that. I went off for three months and kept losing weight throughout. And the data from these drugs shows they gain it back at regular rate at most.
        3y ago
Ginden 3y ago
> This is opposed to coming up with long term solutions that involve re-evaluating daily decisions that lead to some of these diseases in the first place. Medicine tried this. It's extremely hard to actually to do it in practice. Obviously, it's better solution, but we are living in real world, where we have to choose "good enough" solutions over those deemed "better, but infeasible for 90% of patients".
- smileysteve 3y ago
  "re-evaluating daily decisions" is exactly what suppressing these hormones allow people to do; so that they can make rational instead of hormone driven decisions.
KingMob 3y ago
> My point is that people without diabetes are looking to this drug for weight loss, at which point they create a dangerous dependency, with no hard evidence that their actual health improves. These drugs would have to be pretty bad to counteract the massive health benefits from losing weight (even if they don't have diabetes). I've heard a few eye-openers in the comments, but unless they're more prevalent than I've read, or there's some ticking time bomb, the drugs are probably still a net health benefit.