8 ms·

Writing Is My Main Freedom. One Day My Work Disappeared (2021)

124 points by xrd 3y ago

anotherhue 3y ago
Is there a reason, other than capitalism/entrenched interests, that the prison service doesn't have its own in house software? A non profit could perhaps assist.
- nativeit 3y ago
  Every component of most American prisons has become a lucrative (frequently exploitative) source of revenue. From selling packs of ramen noodles to charging exorbitant fees to speak to loved ones over the phone, I would be amazed if this wasn’t just one more avenue for entrenched moneyed interests to extract even more profits from struggling families who have been broken apart.
- freedomben 3y ago
  I'm glad you asked. I work for a non-profit called Ameelio (ameelio.org) that is working on that. We started with free incoming (to the facility) mail (aka letters) and expanded to free video and voice calling, and are currently working on expanding further though I don't want to say exactly what at this point. To answer your question though, yes entrenched interests and lack of competition. When you are sole provider, no matter how broke people's families are they are going to dig deep. Some states also allow a "kickback" system where the department gets a % of the fees collected by the providers. Fortunately some states have made this illegal and more are starting to now that we've shown how corrupt and gross the incumbent situation is, but there's still a way to go. I will also say that I've been impressed with a lot of people in the departments. Many of them don't like the current system either and they think it's wrong, so they've been really helpful/willing to work with us. Related past thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23042558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23042558
  - whitemary 3y ago
    so-called "non-profit"
    - dang 3y ago
      It looks like you've been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's not allowed here and we ban accounts that do it, regardless of what they're battling for or against, so please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- woodruffw 3y ago
  For one, there isn't a single "prison service" in the US. There are somewhere between 51 and several thousand prison and jail systems, depending on how you count. Profit extraction is one reason, and a large one. However, an equally large one is cruelty: these systems are designed to make prisoners suffer, and public accountability runs counter to that goal.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    jails are also used to force plea deals. see torture island aka rikers
    - woodruffw 3y ago
      Right. The idea that pleas are anything except compelled when they come from the imprisoned is farcical.
      - bsder 3y ago
        Sorry. You shouldn't be able to waive your right to a jury trial. Everyone should go through the trial even when they are dead to rights guilty. The state should have to prove to a jury that they did their job convicting you. Plea deals become implied threats. Take this cheaper deal or we'll throw this massive set of stuff at you. Remember Aaron Swartz? You wipe that out by wiping out plea deals.
        MandieD 3y ago
        If everyone had to go through a jury trial (which I kind of agree that they should), what's your threshold for allowing them to remain out of jail before trial? How much are you willing to give jurors as a stipend for missing work? How much do you want to spend fitting out new courtrooms? Because if all three are not extremely generous by current US standards, you're going to be forcing innocent/kind of guilty people to sit in jail for years waiting for their trials - we don't have nearly enough judges, jury members or court capacity to give everyone the speedy trial with a jury of their peers.
- yyyk 3y ago
  At which point the prison service will be responsible for bugs/unimplemented features/support. Often, simply offloading responsibility is worth a lot bureaucratically even if features would be technically identical.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  I don’t understand why they can’t use, like, Word or notepad and just pass around text files or something like that. I mean, most of the people involved in the prison system have decided to work in a place where the users aren’t there willingly or able to change service providers, so I guess they would trend toward minimal competence, right? The more they can leverage software written by anybody else, the better, I guess.
  - themadturk 3y ago
    Well, you need the hardware that will run applications like Word and even Notepad. Those are both Windows apps, and I'm sure the tablets mentioned in this article aren't Windows devices. They include exactly the software the system allows, and stores data in exactly the way the system dictates. They're unlikely to have the freedom to "pass around text files."
- vinaypai 3y ago
  The root cause is that a huge portion of the US population sees prisons entirely from a punitive point of view. Want to reduce prison sentences? Improve conditions? You're soft on crime!
  - troupe 3y ago
    > Improve conditions? It seems like there might be room for improving conditions in ways that will help prevent them from being back in prison later. Education and working in a way that develops skills are two ways that come to mind.
    - crooked-v 3y ago
      There are plenty of people who oppose those, too, because it's time not spent making the prisoners feel bad.
    - thebooktocome 3y ago
      Good luck making that argument to the median voter. The entire conservative wing believes prisoners deserve torture (unless it’s them or their immediate family); half of the center-left is too busy projecting a “tough on crime” image to give much thought about improving conditions. Even if you can prove a non-profit, non-funded program reduces recidivism, if it also happens to make prisoners’ lives marginally better in the process, that’s an immediate no.
    - vinaypai 3y ago
      I agree entirely, but a lot of people don't and just want to increase prison sentences and make prisons harsher.
- Eumenes 3y ago
  whats wrong with a pen and paper?
  - thebooktocome 3y ago
    It requires too much labor for the prison-industrial complex to monitor. Digital files are far easier to automatically censor.
user- 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
the_af 3y ago
This particular inmate has more posts in that site. This one discusses a cancer scare for which he didn't pursue an examination because of the degrading way they treat inmates with medical conditions in prison: https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/01/28/i-m-having-a-cancer-scare-but-prison-healthcare-is-so-degrading-i-ve-quit-seeking-answers https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/01/28/i-m-having-a-c... His last post is from July 2022. I wonder if he is still alive.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Prison records are usually open, you can probably find his record.
- telotortium 3y ago
  Seems to be. Parole date is 2030, and he's only 38 years old: https://mdocweb.state.mi.us/OTIS2/otis2profile.aspx?mdocNumber=449071 https://mdocweb.state.mi.us/OTIS2/otis2profile.aspx?mdocNumb... In for second degree murder.
  - the_af 3y ago
    > In for second degree murder Yes, this is mentioned in TFA. To be clear, I think medical treatment without humiliation is warranted even for murderers.
    - telotortium 3y ago
      I didn't see it in the TFA, which is why I added it. > To be clear, I think medical treatment without humiliation is warranted even for murderers. I agree.
axus 3y ago
The tablet capabilities are 5 years behind and twice the price, but they do get better every year. The main problem is that they use the world's worst app store. Most apps aren't able to use storage, but those of us on the outside can create logins and change some account settings. iHeartRadio and PlutoTV are probably the best ones prisoners get access to; can't get save things locally but the websites will remember activity.
caditinpiscinam 3y ago
The system is working as intended. I've seen a lot of talk recently about crime and calls for various people to be imprisoned; everyone from carjackers to right-wing vigilantes. In the midst of these conversations, please remember: prisons exist to torture prisoners. Excerpts from another recent Marshall project article: > An officer who broke his baton hitting a prisoner 35 times, even after the man was handcuffed, was not fired. Neither were the guards who beat a prisoner at Attica Correctional Facility so badly that he needed 13 staples to close gashes in his scalp. Nor were the officers who battered a man with mental illness, injuring him from face to groin. The man hanged himself the next day. > Magalios, who was incarcerated at Fishkill Correctional Facility, was kicked and punched by a guard after hugging and kissing his wife hello during a visit. Court records show that another officer held Magalios down while a third watched. All three officers still work at Fishkill. > The Marshall Project identified more than 160 excessive-force lawsuits that the state lost or settled, paying $18.5 million in damages. The corrections department’s records show that officials attempted to discipline an officer in just 20 of those cases. They fired six guards. https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/05/19/new-york-prison-corrections-officer-abuse-prisoners https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/05/19/new-york-priso... ----- If your child made the choice to steal someone's car, you would be upset with them. But would you want them to be subjected to decades of unchecked abuse and inhumane treatment?
- whitemary 3y ago
  > The system is working as intended. Wrong. The intentions of the ruling class are not to oppress others but merely to protect their own interests, which is a far more difficult matter to confront. The fundamental basis of capitalism, being the state's violent protection of the right to accumulate capital, defines the predominant motives of oppression. Members of the ruling class have little choice but to expand their personal power and control, lest they lose it all. This tendency alone results in the private prison industrial complex and erodes citizen rights.
  - paulcole 3y ago
    > This tendency alone results in the private prison industrial complex and erodes citizen rights. So what you're saying is that the system is working as intended?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
hello_computer 3y ago
I grew up around people like this, thus I have little sympathy. They all sound terribly repentant, until teacher is gone and you look at them the wrong way. Yes, private prisons are corrupt profit centers, and this is what voters have chosen. When the other options are pay more taxes to incarcerate criminals, or let them run free, how could things be any other way? They are voters, not saints. As for "The Marshall Project", another non-profit funded by the same batches of plutocratic blood-money as all the other non-profits. Why are office people so gullible as to think that plutocrats who would wreck an entire economy, or poison a whole town for a quick buck are suddenly public benefactors after passing their ill-gotten gains through a 501(c)(3)? PS) for the downvoters: Vote as you will, but after you vote, please ask yourself: Did you go to a "rough" school? Have you lived in a "rough" neighborhood for more than a year? I am glad to accept your judgment from experience, but if you are judging from propaganda, it is time for you to stop and reflect.
- bjornasm 3y ago
  >When the other options are pay more taxes to incarcerate criminals, or let them run free Do you have a source for this - that the way the prison system is handled in the US now is the cheapest way?
  - hello_computer 3y ago
    Do you have a source that it isn't the cheapest way? (Not that I wrote anywhere that it even was the cheapest way, but that voters would pay more taxes. If you think about it for a moment, you will see that these two statements aren't identical.)
    - bjornasm 3y ago
      The way it normally works is that the one making the claim is the one having to provide the source. I'll take that as you don't have a source for it then.
      - hello_computer 3y ago
isodev 3y ago
The only thing I know about prisons in the US is from what I’ve seen in movies so I’m shocked to read that inmates need to pay, per page, to access and send content like blog posts, newspapers, books, music and movies. Questions going through my mind: Is it known what are the software and hardware capabilities of these JPay / kiosks? If I have an app that’s already in the App Store and Google Play, how can I make it more compatible / reliable for this environment?
- cbsmith 3y ago
  > The only thing I know about prisons in the US is from what I’ve seen in movies so I’m shocked to read that inmates need to pay, per page, to access and send content like blog posts, newspapers, books, music and movies. I'm curious about this. I can't think of anything I've seen in movies that suggests they have access to the net in general. Sure, I've seen stuff about prison libraries, whose services I generally presumed to be free, but never much more than that.
  - isodev 3y ago
    Well, movies usually focus on the plot, so I always assumed that “normal human needs” are satisfied and not interesting enough to film or talk about.
- xen2xen1 3y ago
  Jails and prisons don't let prisoners have net access.. Unless the jail or prison gets a cut. Typically a large, large company comes in and offers cash to the jail, and offers to foot all the hardware bill, and the support costs. The inmates have access, paying per minute. Seen as a wonderful revenue stream for the jail, and suddenly the free visits to the jail stop, but the "televisits" start at $20 or something.
- afthonos 3y ago
  US prisons are a hellscape. For any question you may have, the answer is “whatever is most convenient and cheapest, irrespective of any cost in living quality, dignity, or health of the inmates, unless it would be fun or satisfying to make them suffer, in which case do that. ”
karol 3y ago
[flagged]
- minsight 3y ago
  "Take a picture of the result" Let's think about that awhile...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
NotYourLawyer 3y ago
> While I’m glad that JPay is back to normal, I’m still upset at the arbitrary nature of the changes Welcome to every modern tech product.
vxNsr 3y ago
I always have trouble with posts like these, the comments are full of people who ask why prisons exist, and seem to imply they would rather crime and criminal behavior not be punished at all. They also chafe at the idea that prisons should be allowed to inhibit their inhabitants’ freedom in anyway. As if prison should actually be a really nice free hotel that we send people who commit murder and rape. I totally get that someone can sound eloquent in written form, especially if a professional editor spends some time cleaning up the grammar, etc. but that doesn’t change the fact that this particular person ended someone else’s life in cold blood and is now whining about not being able to send his daughter poems in stanza form. The other guy can’t send anything to his daughter at all because he’s dead. Maybe you should recognize you deserve to be punished.
- phone8675309 3y ago
  [flagged]
- morelisp 3y ago
  > ended someone else’s life in cold blood As he's convicted of 2nd degree murder, this is precisely what he did not do.
  - bavila 3y ago
    That's not necessarily true in all jurisdictions, as the elements defining degrees of murder are not universal. But, interestingly, in the case of Michigan (which applies here), you may be correct, insofar as a "premediated killing" is construed as a killing performed "in cold blood". Michigan's statutes indicate that first degree murder includes any willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing. [1] Whereas second degree murder includes all "other kinds" of murder which do not fall under the specifically enumerated conduct rising to the level of first degree murder. [2] While the second degree murder statute does not expressly describe what circumstances would precipitate those "other kinds" of murder, the statute outlining the scoring system for crimes involving "intent to kill" suggests that second degree murder would be committed where the offender had unpremeditated intent to kill or created a very high risk of death knowing that death was the probable result. [3] --- [1] http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cdcjvuv1er3twxx1crhz3tb3))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-316 http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cdcjvuv1er3twxx1crhz3tb3))/... [2] http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cdcjvuv1er3twxx1crhz3tb3))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-317 http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cdcjvuv1er3twxx1crhz3tb3))/... [3] http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cdcjvuv1er3twxx1crhz3tb3))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-777-36 http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cdcjvuv1er3twxx1crhz3tb3))/...
avazhi 3y ago
[flagged]
- stanski 3y ago
  How do you think re-integration will go after being robbed of everything in prison? Does society gain from this as a whole?
- rhn_mk1 3y ago
  You're expected to feel the limit. What is the sufficient punishment for a 2nd murder? Does it include being arbitrarily robbed of your work? What is the lightest transgression that deserves being treated with implicit promises about basic freedoms followed by taking them away without a warning?
  - Shared404 3y ago
    > Does it include being arbitrarily robbed of your work? I would even go so far as to call that cruel and unusual.
- Afton 3y ago
  There are several philosophical approaches to the purpose of prison. 1. Revenge 2. to keep society safe from dangerous/anti-social people 3. to provide a safe space for rehabilitating people for re-integration. I tend to view (1) as the worst possible option, even discounting the fact that we are completely 100% aware of the existence of false convictions. You are entitled to believe that revenge is a valid society choice, but I will definitely judge you for believing that.
  - orange_joe 3y ago
    I don’t fully buy into rehabilitative Justice. I’ve not read an account of how to handle one off crimes. Things like manslaughter or negligence. Crimes with extremely low rates of recidivism. Should people who commit these crimes be let off without consequence? If the point is character building, do you simply keep people imprisoned until their character improves. I’m not saying you have these answers but I haven’t seen them elsewhere.
troupe 3y ago
> A software change in my prison-issued electronic tablet ate up my drafts I didn't realize that prisoners were allowed tablets. Evidently there is a business that will give prisoners tablets at no charge, but then basically charge them to use those tablets. This seems like something a non-profit could do a lot better job of.
- sclarisse 3y ago
  But then how would they pay off the prison officials?
pastage 3y ago
It will be interesting to see how the research in CSI Chester is going. Will it affect the employees situation in prisons, and can it help rehabilitation in atleast some small sense. https://www.fastcompany.com/90794291/e2808be2808bwhat-a-pennsylvania-prison-learned-after-getting-a-scandinavian-style-makeover https://www.fastcompany.com/90794291/e2808be2808bwhat-a-penn...

124 points by xrd 3y ago

Is there a reason, other than capitalism/entrenched interests, that the prison service doesn't have its own in house software? A non profit could perhaps assist.

nativeit 3y ago
Every component of most American prisons has become a lucrative (frequently exploitative) source of revenue. From selling packs of ramen noodles to charging exorbitant fees to speak to loved ones over the phone, I would be amazed if this wasn’t just one more avenue for entrenched moneyed interests to extract even more profits from struggling families who have been broken apart.
freedomben 3y ago
I'm glad you asked. I work for a non-profit called Ameelio (ameelio.org) that is working on that. We started with free incoming (to the facility) mail (aka letters) and expanded to free video and voice calling, and are currently working on expanding further though I don't want to say exactly what at this point. To answer your question though, yes entrenched interests and lack of competition. When you are sole provider, no matter how broke people's families are they are going to dig deep. Some states also allow a "kickback" system where the department gets a % of the fees collected by the providers. Fortunately some states have made this illegal and more are starting to now that we've shown how corrupt and gross the incumbent situation is, but there's still a way to go. I will also say that I've been impressed with a lot of people in the departments. Many of them don't like the current system either and they think it's wrong, so they've been really helpful/willing to work with us. Related past thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23042558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23042558
- whitemary 3y ago
  so-called "non-profit"
  - dang 3y ago
    It looks like you've been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's not allowed here and we ban accounts that do it, regardless of what they're battling for or against, so please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
woodruffw 3y ago
For one, there isn't a single "prison service" in the US. There are somewhere between 51 and several thousand prison and jail systems, depending on how you count. Profit extraction is one reason, and a large one. However, an equally large one is cruelty: these systems are designed to make prisoners suffer, and public accountability runs counter to that goal.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  jails are also used to force plea deals. see torture island aka rikers
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    Right. The idea that pleas are anything except compelled when they come from the imprisoned is farcical.
    - bsder 3y ago
      Sorry. You shouldn't be able to waive your right to a jury trial. Everyone should go through the trial even when they are dead to rights guilty. The state should have to prove to a jury that they did their job convicting you. Plea deals become implied threats. Take this cheaper deal or we'll throw this massive set of stuff at you. Remember Aaron Swartz? You wipe that out by wiping out plea deals.
      - MandieD 3y ago
        If everyone had to go through a jury trial (which I kind of agree that they should), what's your threshold for allowing them to remain out of jail before trial? How much are you willing to give jurors as a stipend for missing work? How much do you want to spend fitting out new courtrooms? Because if all three are not extremely generous by current US standards, you're going to be forcing innocent/kind of guilty people to sit in jail for years waiting for their trials - we don't have nearly enough judges, jury members or court capacity to give everyone the speedy trial with a jury of their peers.
yyyk 3y ago
At which point the prison service will be responsible for bugs/unimplemented features/support. Often, simply offloading responsibility is worth a lot bureaucratically even if features would be technically identical.
bee_rider 3y ago
I don’t understand why they can’t use, like, Word or notepad and just pass around text files or something like that. I mean, most of the people involved in the prison system have decided to work in a place where the users aren’t there willingly or able to change service providers, so I guess they would trend toward minimal competence, right? The more they can leverage software written by anybody else, the better, I guess.
- themadturk 3y ago
  Well, you need the hardware that will run applications like Word and even Notepad. Those are both Windows apps, and I'm sure the tablets mentioned in this article aren't Windows devices. They include exactly the software the system allows, and stores data in exactly the way the system dictates. They're unlikely to have the freedom to "pass around text files."
vinaypai 3y ago
The root cause is that a huge portion of the US population sees prisons entirely from a punitive point of view. Want to reduce prison sentences? Improve conditions? You're soft on crime!
- troupe 3y ago
  > Improve conditions? It seems like there might be room for improving conditions in ways that will help prevent them from being back in prison later. Education and working in a way that develops skills are two ways that come to mind.
  - crooked-v 3y ago
    There are plenty of people who oppose those, too, because it's time not spent making the prisoners feel bad.
  - thebooktocome 3y ago
    Good luck making that argument to the median voter. The entire conservative wing believes prisoners deserve torture (unless it’s them or their immediate family); half of the center-left is too busy projecting a “tough on crime” image to give much thought about improving conditions. Even if you can prove a non-profit, non-funded program reduces recidivism, if it also happens to make prisoners’ lives marginally better in the process, that’s an immediate no.
  - vinaypai 3y ago
    I agree entirely, but a lot of people don't and just want to increase prison sentences and make prisons harsher.
Eumenes 3y ago
whats wrong with a pen and paper?
- thebooktocome 3y ago
  It requires too much labor for the prison-industrial complex to monitor. Digital files are far easier to automatically censor.

user- 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

the_af 3y ago

This particular inmate has more posts in that site. This one discusses a cancer scare for which he didn't pursue an examination because of the degrading way they treat inmates with medical conditions in prison: https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/01/28/i-m-having-a-cancer-scare-but-prison-healthcare-is-so-degrading-i-ve-quit-seeking-answers https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/01/28/i-m-having-a-c... His last post is from July 2022. I wonder if he is still alive.

bombcar 3y ago
Prison records are usually open, you can probably find his record.
telotortium 3y ago
Seems to be. Parole date is 2030, and he's only 38 years old: https://mdocweb.state.mi.us/OTIS2/otis2profile.aspx?mdocNumber=449071 https://mdocweb.state.mi.us/OTIS2/otis2profile.aspx?mdocNumb... In for second degree murder.
- the_af 3y ago
  > In for second degree murder Yes, this is mentioned in TFA. To be clear, I think medical treatment without humiliation is warranted even for murderers.
  - telotortium 3y ago
    I didn't see it in the TFA, which is why I added it. > To be clear, I think medical treatment without humiliation is warranted even for murderers. I agree.

axus 3y ago

The tablet capabilities are 5 years behind and twice the price, but they do get better every year. The main problem is that they use the world's worst app store. Most apps aren't able to use storage, but those of us on the outside can create logins and change some account settings. iHeartRadio and PlutoTV are probably the best ones prisoners get access to; can't get save things locally but the websites will remember activity.

caditinpiscinam 3y ago

The system is working as intended. I've seen a lot of talk recently about crime and calls for various people to be imprisoned; everyone from carjackers to right-wing vigilantes. In the midst of these conversations, please remember: prisons exist to torture prisoners. Excerpts from another recent Marshall project article: > An officer who broke his baton hitting a prisoner 35 times, even after the man was handcuffed, was not fired. Neither were the guards who beat a prisoner at Attica Correctional Facility so badly that he needed 13 staples to close gashes in his scalp. Nor were the officers who battered a man with mental illness, injuring him from face to groin. The man hanged himself the next day. > Magalios, who was incarcerated at Fishkill Correctional Facility, was kicked and punched by a guard after hugging and kissing his wife hello during a visit. Court records show that another officer held Magalios down while a third watched. All three officers still work at Fishkill. > The Marshall Project identified more than 160 excessive-force lawsuits that the state lost or settled, paying $18.5 million in damages. The corrections department’s records show that officials attempted to discipline an officer in just 20 of those cases. They fired six guards. https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/05/19/new-york-prison-corrections-officer-abuse-prisoners https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/05/19/new-york-priso... ----- If your child made the choice to steal someone's car, you would be upset with them. But would you want them to be subjected to decades of unchecked abuse and inhumane treatment?

whitemary 3y ago
> The system is working as intended. Wrong. The intentions of the ruling class are not to oppress others but merely to protect their own interests, which is a far more difficult matter to confront. The fundamental basis of capitalism, being the state's violent protection of the right to accumulate capital, defines the predominant motives of oppression. Members of the ruling class have little choice but to expand their personal power and control, lest they lose it all. This tendency alone results in the private prison industrial complex and erodes citizen rights.
- paulcole 3y ago
  > This tendency alone results in the private prison industrial complex and erodes citizen rights. So what you're saying is that the system is working as intended?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

hello_computer 3y ago

I grew up around people like this, thus I have little sympathy. They all sound terribly repentant, until teacher is gone and you look at them the wrong way. Yes, private prisons are corrupt profit centers, and this is what voters have chosen. When the other options are pay more taxes to incarcerate criminals, or let them run free, how could things be any other way? They are voters, not saints. As for "The Marshall Project", another non-profit funded by the same batches of plutocratic blood-money as all the other non-profits. Why are office people so gullible as to think that plutocrats who would wreck an entire economy, or poison a whole town for a quick buck are suddenly public benefactors after passing their ill-gotten gains through a 501(c)(3)? PS) for the downvoters: Vote as you will, but after you vote, please ask yourself: Did you go to a "rough" school? Have you lived in a "rough" neighborhood for more than a year? I am glad to accept your judgment from experience, but if you are judging from propaganda, it is time for you to stop and reflect.

bjornasm 3y ago
>When the other options are pay more taxes to incarcerate criminals, or let them run free Do you have a source for this - that the way the prison system is handled in the US now is the cheapest way?
- hello_computer 3y ago
  Do you have a source that it isn't the cheapest way? (Not that I wrote anywhere that it even was the cheapest way, but that voters would pay more taxes. If you think about it for a moment, you will see that these two statements aren't identical.)
  - bjornasm 3y ago
    The way it normally works is that the one making the claim is the one having to provide the source. I'll take that as you don't have a source for it then.
    - hello_computer 3y ago

isodev 3y ago

The only thing I know about prisons in the US is from what I’ve seen in movies so I’m shocked to read that inmates need to pay, per page, to access and send content like blog posts, newspapers, books, music and movies. Questions going through my mind: Is it known what are the software and hardware capabilities of these JPay / kiosks? If I have an app that’s already in the App Store and Google Play, how can I make it more compatible / reliable for this environment?

cbsmith 3y ago
> The only thing I know about prisons in the US is from what I’ve seen in movies so I’m shocked to read that inmates need to pay, per page, to access and send content like blog posts, newspapers, books, music and movies. I'm curious about this. I can't think of anything I've seen in movies that suggests they have access to the net in general. Sure, I've seen stuff about prison libraries, whose services I generally presumed to be free, but never much more than that.
- isodev 3y ago
  Well, movies usually focus on the plot, so I always assumed that “normal human needs” are satisfied and not interesting enough to film or talk about.
xen2xen1 3y ago
Jails and prisons don't let prisoners have net access.. Unless the jail or prison gets a cut. Typically a large, large company comes in and offers cash to the jail, and offers to foot all the hardware bill, and the support costs. The inmates have access, paying per minute. Seen as a wonderful revenue stream for the jail, and suddenly the free visits to the jail stop, but the "televisits" start at $20 or something.
afthonos 3y ago
US prisons are a hellscape. For any question you may have, the answer is “whatever is most convenient and cheapest, irrespective of any cost in living quality, dignity, or health of the inmates, unless it would be fun or satisfying to make them suffer, in which case do that. ”

karol 3y ago

[flagged]

minsight 3y ago
"Take a picture of the result" Let's think about that awhile...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

NotYourLawyer 3y ago

> While I’m glad that JPay is back to normal, I’m still upset at the arbitrary nature of the changes Welcome to every modern tech product.

vxNsr 3y ago

I always have trouble with posts like these, the comments are full of people who ask why prisons exist, and seem to imply they would rather crime and criminal behavior not be punished at all. They also chafe at the idea that prisons should be allowed to inhibit their inhabitants’ freedom in anyway. As if prison should actually be a really nice free hotel that we send people who commit murder and rape. I totally get that someone can sound eloquent in written form, especially if a professional editor spends some time cleaning up the grammar, etc. but that doesn’t change the fact that this particular person ended someone else’s life in cold blood and is now whining about not being able to send his daughter poems in stanza form. The other guy can’t send anything to his daughter at all because he’s dead. Maybe you should recognize you deserve to be punished.

phone8675309 3y ago
[flagged]
morelisp 3y ago
> ended someone else’s life in cold blood As he's convicted of 2nd degree murder, this is precisely what he did not do.
- bavila 3y ago
  That's not necessarily true in all jurisdictions, as the elements defining degrees of murder are not universal. But, interestingly, in the case of Michigan (which applies here), you may be correct, insofar as a "premediated killing" is construed as a killing performed "in cold blood". Michigan's statutes indicate that first degree murder includes any willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing. [1] Whereas second degree murder includes all "other kinds" of murder which do not fall under the specifically enumerated conduct rising to the level of first degree murder. [2] While the second degree murder statute does not expressly describe what circumstances would precipitate those "other kinds" of murder, the statute outlining the scoring system for crimes involving "intent to kill" suggests that second degree murder would be committed where the offender had unpremeditated intent to kill or created a very high risk of death knowing that death was the probable result. [3] --- [1] http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cdcjvuv1er3twxx1crhz3tb3))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-316 http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cdcjvuv1er3twxx1crhz3tb3))/... [2] http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cdcjvuv1er3twxx1crhz3tb3))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-317 http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cdcjvuv1er3twxx1crhz3tb3))/... [3] http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cdcjvuv1er3twxx1crhz3tb3))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-777-36 http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(cdcjvuv1er3twxx1crhz3tb3))/...

avazhi 3y ago

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stanski 3y ago
How do you think re-integration will go after being robbed of everything in prison? Does society gain from this as a whole?
rhn_mk1 3y ago
You're expected to feel the limit. What is the sufficient punishment for a 2nd murder? Does it include being arbitrarily robbed of your work? What is the lightest transgression that deserves being treated with implicit promises about basic freedoms followed by taking them away without a warning?
- Shared404 3y ago
  > Does it include being arbitrarily robbed of your work? I would even go so far as to call that cruel and unusual.
Afton 3y ago
There are several philosophical approaches to the purpose of prison. 1. Revenge 2. to keep society safe from dangerous/anti-social people 3. to provide a safe space for rehabilitating people for re-integration. I tend to view (1) as the worst possible option, even discounting the fact that we are completely 100% aware of the existence of false convictions. You are entitled to believe that revenge is a valid society choice, but I will definitely judge you for believing that.
- orange_joe 3y ago
  I don’t fully buy into rehabilitative Justice. I’ve not read an account of how to handle one off crimes. Things like manslaughter or negligence. Crimes with extremely low rates of recidivism. Should people who commit these crimes be let off without consequence? If the point is character building, do you simply keep people imprisoned until their character improves. I’m not saying you have these answers but I haven’t seen them elsewhere.

troupe 3y ago

> A software change in my prison-issued electronic tablet ate up my drafts I didn't realize that prisoners were allowed tablets. Evidently there is a business that will give prisoners tablets at no charge, but then basically charge them to use those tablets. This seems like something a non-profit could do a lot better job of.

sclarisse 3y ago
But then how would they pay off the prison officials?

pastage 3y ago

It will be interesting to see how the research in CSI Chester is going. Will it affect the employees situation in prisons, and can it help rehabilitation in atleast some small sense. https://www.fastcompany.com/90794291/e2808be2808bwhat-a-pennsylvania-prison-learned-after-getting-a-scandinavian-style-makeover https://www.fastcompany.com/90794291/e2808be2808bwhat-a-penn...