6 ms·

It is clear that Apple's current sandboxing is not perfect, but what could be done? The goal is to create the most secure running environment that is possible.

It is clear that Apple's current sandboxing is not perfect, but what could be done? The goal is to create the most secure running environment that is possible. Allowing random apps to access/modify different files on the system (without user explicitly allowing that) kinda defeats the purpose of sandboxing (from user's point of view - from developers POV, sandboxing makes his app more secure and stable). All I see is people ranting about sandboxing's limitations, without coming up with actual plans to improve it.

wtn 15y ago
They're trying to take take take everything away from the user. Soon there will be no filesystem.
- LaGrange 15y ago
  Next thing you know, there will be no keyboard, just a featureless ball. It would roll down from slippery slopes real well.
  - Oxryly 15y ago
    Hopefully it'll eventually become a computer with no screen or keyboard, just a big red button which turns the thing off. I'd buy that.
    - technomancy 15y ago
      And version two would remove the button. Why would you want to turn it off?
  - whatusername 15y ago
    The MacBook Wheel: http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/ http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary...
- grecy 15y ago
  >Soon there will be no filesystem. Is that a bad thing? I'm not saying it will happen soon, or that those of us long in the tooth will go easily, but I honestly think it's the future. Think about young teenagers who will soon be "in charge". They snap a pic on their phone and send it to someone else. Nobody cares where it is in the filesystem, or even what the filename is. I used to meticulously name, tag and organize my mp3 collection into folders and sub-folders. Now I don't even know where they are on my hard drive - because I just don't care. Those are old concepts we used to rely on to find and use information stored inside the computer, but I honestly don't see the need for the in the future. We can stop focusing on the "how" of the computer, and focus on the doing. I will add that "power" users like developers will require these kind of concepts for a lot longer than your average Joe, but I still see it becoming less and less important.
  - laconian 15y ago
    Teenagers aren't going to go on making careers out of tagging photos and checking into places.
    - stock_toaster 15y ago
      > Teenagers aren't going to go on making careers out of tagging photos and checking into places. Do they currently go on to careers managing folder hierarchies?
    - grecy 15y ago
      >Teenagers aren't going to go on making careers out of tagging photos and checking into places. Some of those teenagers will go on to be CEO's and Execs at huge fortune 500 companies like Apple, Oracle, Microsoft, etc.
    - ugh 15y ago
      Your point? I don't get it.
    - forgottenpaswrd 15y ago
      "Teenagers aren't going to go on making careers out of tagging photos and checking into places." Exactly. No human will do this, computers will do for us in an automatic way, using search and programming. We will ask the computer: "Show me my 2004 photos in chronological order, and the computer will do." What is the problem?
- sunchild 15y ago
  Yes, and never mind that just about everything you take for granted about personal computers was "given" by Apple, too. I find this notion that users are entitled to complete device freedom really annoying. If you find it so objectionable, go build your own hardware and OS platform. This isn't a matter of human rights because no one is telling you that you can't make your own.
  - soc88 15y ago
    Great sarcasm. :-)
    - cooldeal 15y ago
      I honestly can't get if that's sarcasm or the poster really believes such things. I think Poe's law applies here. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poes_Law http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poes_Law
  - recoiledsnake 15y ago
    And if you don't like pollution and global warming, stop complaining and trying to make things better, instead colonize your own planet and make them pollution-free.
  - sunchild 15y ago
    @recoiledsnake: (for whatever reason, I'm not allowed to reply directly to you) You're comparing Apple's ecosystem to Earth's. Apple is a private company that makes products that are sold on the commercial markets. The Earth is something entirely different. If Apple made planets, then yes – they could decide how to manage the atmosphere. That's how business works.
    - icebraining 15y ago
      (for whatever reason, I'm not allowed to reply directly to you) It's a cool-off period.
      - 15y ago
smackfu 15y ago
It's silly to pretend that Apple didn't pick and choose which capabilities they would support in the sandbox. It's very similar to their support for "multitasking" on iOS. Handle the common cases well, most others will find some way to make it work, and the rest are out of luck.
pnathan 15y ago
Typically the tradeoff with secureity is usability/features vs. security. It's also important to note that the point of black hat hackers is to get around limitations. Without putting serious teeth into the sandboxing, it's largely pointless and security theater.

wtn 15y ago

They're trying to take take take everything away from the user. Soon there will be no filesystem.

LaGrange 15y ago
Next thing you know, there will be no keyboard, just a featureless ball. It would roll down from slippery slopes real well.
- Oxryly 15y ago
  Hopefully it'll eventually become a computer with no screen or keyboard, just a big red button which turns the thing off. I'd buy that.
  - technomancy 15y ago
    And version two would remove the button. Why would you want to turn it off?
- whatusername 15y ago
  The MacBook Wheel: http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/ http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary...
grecy 15y ago
>Soon there will be no filesystem. Is that a bad thing? I'm not saying it will happen soon, or that those of us long in the tooth will go easily, but I honestly think it's the future. Think about young teenagers who will soon be "in charge". They snap a pic on their phone and send it to someone else. Nobody cares where it is in the filesystem, or even what the filename is. I used to meticulously name, tag and organize my mp3 collection into folders and sub-folders. Now I don't even know where they are on my hard drive - because I just don't care. Those are old concepts we used to rely on to find and use information stored inside the computer, but I honestly don't see the need for the in the future. We can stop focusing on the "how" of the computer, and focus on the doing. I will add that "power" users like developers will require these kind of concepts for a lot longer than your average Joe, but I still see it becoming less and less important.
- laconian 15y ago
  Teenagers aren't going to go on making careers out of tagging photos and checking into places.
  - stock_toaster 15y ago
    > Teenagers aren't going to go on making careers out of tagging photos and checking into places. Do they currently go on to careers managing folder hierarchies?
  - grecy 15y ago
    >Teenagers aren't going to go on making careers out of tagging photos and checking into places. Some of those teenagers will go on to be CEO's and Execs at huge fortune 500 companies like Apple, Oracle, Microsoft, etc.
  - ugh 15y ago
    Your point? I don't get it.
  - forgottenpaswrd 15y ago
    "Teenagers aren't going to go on making careers out of tagging photos and checking into places." Exactly. No human will do this, computers will do for us in an automatic way, using search and programming. We will ask the computer: "Show me my 2004 photos in chronological order, and the computer will do." What is the problem?
sunchild 15y ago
Yes, and never mind that just about everything you take for granted about personal computers was "given" by Apple, too. I find this notion that users are entitled to complete device freedom really annoying. If you find it so objectionable, go build your own hardware and OS platform. This isn't a matter of human rights because no one is telling you that you can't make your own.
- soc88 15y ago
  Great sarcasm. :-)
  - cooldeal 15y ago
    I honestly can't get if that's sarcasm or the poster really believes such things. I think Poe's law applies here. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poes_Law http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poes_Law
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  And if you don't like pollution and global warming, stop complaining and trying to make things better, instead colonize your own planet and make them pollution-free.
- sunchild 15y ago
  @recoiledsnake: (for whatever reason, I'm not allowed to reply directly to you) You're comparing Apple's ecosystem to Earth's. Apple is a private company that makes products that are sold on the commercial markets. The Earth is something entirely different. If Apple made planets, then yes – they could decide how to manage the atmosphere. That's how business works.
  - icebraining 15y ago
    (for whatever reason, I'm not allowed to reply directly to you) It's a cool-off period.
    - 15y ago

smackfu 15y ago

It's silly to pretend that Apple didn't pick and choose which capabilities they would support in the sandbox. It's very similar to their support for "multitasking" on iOS. Handle the common cases well, most others will find some way to make it work, and the rest are out of luck.

pnathan 15y ago

Typically the tradeoff with secureity is usability/features vs. security. It's also important to note that the point of black hat hackers is to get around limitations. Without putting serious teeth into the sandboxing, it's largely pointless and security theater.