10 ms·

Let's say establishing policies to reduce the use of TikTok in the population is the right move. What policies would you suggest?

egorfine 3y ago
The more I think about it during the last years the less idea I have of what could be a working solution.
jerrre 3y ago
Would also depend on the reason you want to reduce it. Privacy? Data? Attention? Propaganda?
shawabawa3 3y ago
Ban advertising to minors Huge fines for being caught knowingly serving ads to minors
TeMPOraL 3y ago
What would be the specific harm of TikTok? Is it because of China, or because of this style of social media apps? If it's because of China, then ban TikTok and subsidize a competitor app - but be serious about it. Be ready to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on keeping the app free and servers up for years, sponsoring hundreds of content creators, dragging celebrities in to produce exclusive content, burning tons of money on all kinds of loss-generating marketing bullshit, like "publish a video from $concert, best 100 videos win a Nintendo Switch", for each concert in the state/country for the next few years. Point being, if you can provide a TikTok alternative and make it extremely attractive, even if by literally giving away hundreds of dollars to each new user, then kids won't care about using TikTok anymore. Now, if it's not about China but teenage use of social media? Put an absurdly high tax on smartphones. Like 200%-1000%. That will make sure they become unavailable to a typical teenager. Beyond that? I don't think you can do much about it directly, or in the immediate term.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  It's a hypothetical. Hypothetically suppose we all agree that TikTok usage should be reduced. You are a state legislator. What do you do?
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    Make using it a criminal offense with minimum mandatory sentence of 5 years in prison.
    - juliusgeo 3y ago
      I would like to make the modest proposal that a more effective way of reducing usage would be to make it punishable by summary execution.
      - TeMPOraL 3y ago
        Oh no. The US isn't some kind of totalitarian country to do summary executions for petty crimes. Why waste the free labor?
    - badpun 3y ago
      Let's punish every act that we don't want to see with death (or, at a minimum, cutting off a hand), that will solve world's problems for sure.
  - onionisafruit 3y ago
    In that hypothetical I identify the federal policy I think would be effective and vote for the US rep, Senate and presidential candidates I think are most likely to enact that policy. As a state legislature I probably have some sway with my constituents, so I also publicly endorse that policy and candidates. What I’m getting at is this isn’t an issue for the state level.
- bardan 3y ago
  Sometimes people say "you only hate TikTok because it's a foreign company doing it better than American social media". Maybe that's right, maybe TikTok is just doing it better than American social media platforms, but what have we been saying about American social media for the last decade? (generally not positive things) Maybe at some point this was all going to hit some kind of threshold where it is just no longer reasonable to call the effects of social media a net good. Maybe TikTok has passed that threshold. We can give them a trophy for that, but then plan some ways to finally restrict social media's addictive and anxiety-provoking qualities. So restrictions on infinite scroll, or require the user to actually press a button before the next video starts. I'm sure there are a lot of ideas, and people more qualified than me to suggest them, but I think these two alone would be reasonable restrictions. It disturbs me that TikTok being a Chinese company is being used right now as an excuse as to why these social media platforms shouldn't be made to change their deliberately addictive designs.
vasco 3y ago
What does the government have to do with what apps I use in my free time? Are they also going to force me to read nonfiction instead of fiction because it's "the right move"? This sounds like some dystopian crap. What committee decides which apps are good for you or not and how long is long enough?
- PurpleRamen 3y ago
  > What does the government have to do with what apps I use in my free time? Because it's literally their job: Protect the citizen. They may not do a good job all the time, most times they are even very bad. But nonetheless do they try and prevent most of the worst cases. And TikTok is so insane efficient in what it's doing, the line between benefit and harm is so thin, it could easily turn into a "worst case"-scenario if people don't observe it careful enough.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    It's also their job to protect the citizen from future governments by not giving themselves too much control.
  - wildrhythms 3y ago
    The job of policymakers is to: make policy. Protecting the citizen may or may not be a part of the policy they implement.
    - PurpleRamen 3y ago
      Policies are a tool, not the goal.
  - nerdbert 3y ago
    What about propaganda outlets like Newsmax and OANN? Many would argue they've had far more harmful impact on the USA than Tiktok ever could. Where do you draw the line? It has to be domestic propaganda? Can you prove that those don't have foreign links?
setgree 3y ago
Politics is downstream of culture. if we wanted to reduce social media use, we could try to change internet habits and attitudes writ large. Something like a “put down the phone and talk to people” campaign, a la anti-smoking/drinking/drunk driving efforts of yore. That way it doesn’t feel like teens in particular are being targeted by out of touch adults. At least, not as much.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Unfortunately, culture is downstream of economics and technology, so starting from the political end is going to be... an uphill battle.
  - onionisafruit 3y ago
    It’s all a lazy river flowing in a circle. Everything is downstream of everything else.
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      It's not, but the analogy breaks down here anyway. I.e. technically everything influences everything else, but some things influence others much stronger than the reverse. My usual water-based analogy is that culture and society is like a water flowing downhill; economic situation (all the incentives people have) forms the landscape. Technology is what sculpts the landscape. The flow of water does have its own influence - over time, it smoothens out rough edges, and can even forge its own path when the landscape is opposing water too hard. But mostly, the water conforms to the shape of the terrain. Same is with culture - it softens the behaviors of people following incentives, and can reform some aspects of the economy that just don't feel right - but mostly, the economy pretty much determines what culture develops, what people do, what people think. New technologies alter economic landscape quickly, but we don't have much control over when they show up or how the landscape is altered.
    - CapstanRoller 3y ago
      Material conditions stand above all else. Ideology withers when confronted by reality.
pjc50 3y ago
Let's say establishing policies to reduce the use of Fox News in the population is the right move. What policies would you suggest? Let's say establishing policies to reduce the use of firearms in the population is the right move. What policies would you suggest? (now, people are going to pop up with the obvious objections to those. What is it about US users of TikTok that suddenly makes the 1st Amendment and all those free speech concerns that people bring up not apply?)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

egorfine 3y ago

The more I think about it during the last years the less idea I have of what could be a working solution.

jerrre 3y ago

Would also depend on the reason you want to reduce it. Privacy? Data? Attention? Propaganda?

shawabawa3 3y ago

Ban advertising to minors Huge fines for being caught knowingly serving ads to minors

TeMPOraL 3y ago

What would be the specific harm of TikTok? Is it because of China, or because of this style of social media apps? If it's because of China, then ban TikTok and subsidize a competitor app - but be serious about it. Be ready to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on keeping the app free and servers up for years, sponsoring hundreds of content creators, dragging celebrities in to produce exclusive content, burning tons of money on all kinds of loss-generating marketing bullshit, like "publish a video from $concert, best 100 videos win a Nintendo Switch", for each concert in the state/country for the next few years. Point being, if you can provide a TikTok alternative and make it extremely attractive, even if by literally giving away hundreds of dollars to each new user, then kids won't care about using TikTok anymore. Now, if it's not about China but teenage use of social media? Put an absurdly high tax on smartphones. Like 200%-1000%. That will make sure they become unavailable to a typical teenager. Beyond that? I don't think you can do much about it directly, or in the immediate term.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
It's a hypothetical. Hypothetically suppose we all agree that TikTok usage should be reduced. You are a state legislator. What do you do?
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Make using it a criminal offense with minimum mandatory sentence of 5 years in prison.
  - juliusgeo 3y ago
    I would like to make the modest proposal that a more effective way of reducing usage would be to make it punishable by summary execution.
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      Oh no. The US isn't some kind of totalitarian country to do summary executions for petty crimes. Why waste the free labor?
  - badpun 3y ago
    Let's punish every act that we don't want to see with death (or, at a minimum, cutting off a hand), that will solve world's problems for sure.
- onionisafruit 3y ago
  In that hypothetical I identify the federal policy I think would be effective and vote for the US rep, Senate and presidential candidates I think are most likely to enact that policy. As a state legislature I probably have some sway with my constituents, so I also publicly endorse that policy and candidates. What I’m getting at is this isn’t an issue for the state level.
bardan 3y ago
Sometimes people say "you only hate TikTok because it's a foreign company doing it better than American social media". Maybe that's right, maybe TikTok is just doing it better than American social media platforms, but what have we been saying about American social media for the last decade? (generally not positive things) Maybe at some point this was all going to hit some kind of threshold where it is just no longer reasonable to call the effects of social media a net good. Maybe TikTok has passed that threshold. We can give them a trophy for that, but then plan some ways to finally restrict social media's addictive and anxiety-provoking qualities. So restrictions on infinite scroll, or require the user to actually press a button before the next video starts. I'm sure there are a lot of ideas, and people more qualified than me to suggest them, but I think these two alone would be reasonable restrictions. It disturbs me that TikTok being a Chinese company is being used right now as an excuse as to why these social media platforms shouldn't be made to change their deliberately addictive designs.

vasco 3y ago

What does the government have to do with what apps I use in my free time? Are they also going to force me to read nonfiction instead of fiction because it's "the right move"? This sounds like some dystopian crap. What committee decides which apps are good for you or not and how long is long enough?

PurpleRamen 3y ago
> What does the government have to do with what apps I use in my free time? Because it's literally their job: Protect the citizen. They may not do a good job all the time, most times they are even very bad. But nonetheless do they try and prevent most of the worst cases. And TikTok is so insane efficient in what it's doing, the line between benefit and harm is so thin, it could easily turn into a "worst case"-scenario if people don't observe it careful enough.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  It's also their job to protect the citizen from future governments by not giving themselves too much control.
- wildrhythms 3y ago
  The job of policymakers is to: make policy. Protecting the citizen may or may not be a part of the policy they implement.
  - PurpleRamen 3y ago
    Policies are a tool, not the goal.
- nerdbert 3y ago
  What about propaganda outlets like Newsmax and OANN? Many would argue they've had far more harmful impact on the USA than Tiktok ever could. Where do you draw the line? It has to be domestic propaganda? Can you prove that those don't have foreign links?

setgree 3y ago

Politics is downstream of culture. if we wanted to reduce social media use, we could try to change internet habits and attitudes writ large. Something like a “put down the phone and talk to people” campaign, a la anti-smoking/drinking/drunk driving efforts of yore. That way it doesn’t feel like teens in particular are being targeted by out of touch adults. At least, not as much.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
Unfortunately, culture is downstream of economics and technology, so starting from the political end is going to be... an uphill battle.
- onionisafruit 3y ago
  It’s all a lazy river flowing in a circle. Everything is downstream of everything else.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    It's not, but the analogy breaks down here anyway. I.e. technically everything influences everything else, but some things influence others much stronger than the reverse. My usual water-based analogy is that culture and society is like a water flowing downhill; economic situation (all the incentives people have) forms the landscape. Technology is what sculpts the landscape. The flow of water does have its own influence - over time, it smoothens out rough edges, and can even forge its own path when the landscape is opposing water too hard. But mostly, the water conforms to the shape of the terrain. Same is with culture - it softens the behaviors of people following incentives, and can reform some aspects of the economy that just don't feel right - but mostly, the economy pretty much determines what culture develops, what people do, what people think. New technologies alter economic landscape quickly, but we don't have much control over when they show up or how the landscape is altered.
  - CapstanRoller 3y ago
    Material conditions stand above all else. Ideology withers when confronted by reality.

pjc50 3y ago

Let's say establishing policies to reduce the use of Fox News in the population is the right move. What policies would you suggest? Let's say establishing policies to reduce the use of firearms in the population is the right move. What policies would you suggest? (now, people are going to pop up with the obvious objections to those. What is it about US users of TikTok that suddenly makes the 1st Amendment and all those free speech concerns that people bring up not apply?)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]