4 ms·

And the rest of the world goes, "meh..." This is part of a trend: the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution lost most of it's manufacturing industry, the nat

And the rest of the world goes, "meh..." This is part of a trend: the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution lost most of it's manufacturing industry, the nation that once championed free trade is cloistering itself on Brexit, the inventors of football (a.k.a. soccer) are falling behind on the World Cup, the nations that once were vassals to the British Empire are drifting away from the Commonwealth, and Scotland ... Well, it kinda looks like Great Britain is becoming less Great each passing decade. In World War I, four empires collapsed: czarist Russia, Ottoman Empire, Austro-Hungarian and the British Empire. The Austrians already accepted it. The Russians and Turks are refusing desperately to accept it. The British didn't even notice it.

mym1990 3y ago
A decade(s) of poor leadership in an era of fast moving technology will do that!
- throw_pm23 3y ago
  That may be the case, but a simple reversion to the mean may also be sufficient explanation. If everyone plays in a globalised (more or less) even playing field, then sooner or later they catch up and the initial lead will matter less.
  - mym1990 3y ago
    Its likely both, no one stays on top of the world forever, and globalization did well to level some playing fields!
justrealist 3y ago
That's a pretty simplistic view re: Turkey. Turkey did become irrelevant after WWI, but is far more of a power today than it was 30 years ago, and given the relative dysfunction of the neighborhood, it's only going to get stronger.
meroes 3y ago
The UK in the 1880s to now is a very large decline in world power. It might be the largest decline while remaining intact of any nation. In that respect it’s actually doing well
- ben_w 3y ago
  There's at least an Ireland-shaped gap in "while remaining intact". Possibly also Malta, given the brief window of opportunity where they might have ended up with seats in Westminster, but I'm much less confident about that.
password54321 3y ago
What a load of over generalised nonsense.
ben_w 3y ago
There was a recent quote from Anand Menon that sums up my feelings: "Much excitement in the family whatsapp group this morning at the prospect of an Indian and a Pakistani bringing about the partition of Britain" - https://twitter.com/anandMenon1/status/1640612440051163137 https://twitter.com/anandMenon1/status/1640612440051163137 An Indian I work with also found this quite amusing.
bee_rider 3y ago
The fact that they wouldn’t have the same industrial advantages as, say, the long dead British Empire, has to have been baked into the creation of this institute in 2015. I think it is just… the idea of doing something “in a country” is just generally an unnecessary and vexing constraint. “American” companies are leading the pack here because America is a nice regulatory environment for a Global company to plop down a headquarters. Also it is research stuff, there’s a random aspect to it. We’ve just got more dice to roll by virtue of having more researchers in the US.
andyjohnson0 3y ago
> Well, it kinda looks like Great Britain is becoming less Great each passing decade. I'm a brit and unfortunately I think you're broadly right. I wish my children were growing up in a more confident society that looks outward and forward, not inwards and to the past. The current government wants the uk to be an "powerhouse" (or whatever the latest slogan is) for AI, EVs, biotech, etc. But they're stuck in a view of the world that is somewhere between nostalgic nationalism and outright nativism. And pumping out constant culture-war paranioa about "immigrants" and betrayal. So we get brexit - an economic catastrophe - and their desperate need to be seen to be competing rather than collaborating on science research. Non-uk students avoid our universities because they can't get visas or because they're actively harrassed by the government once they're here. Scientists leave the UK for countries where they can get grants and decent equipment and actually do collaborative research. Meanwhile we build useless aircraft carriers that we can't afford to operate, and stage bread and circuses pagents in London - while the food banks have never been busier, and huge numbers of people grind away in poverty. But the important thing is that we're good at tradition and we have history. The country's industrial and scientific base is decaying, as is its infrastructure outside of the London bubble, and none of the grifters and fantasists running the country have a clue. I'll be advising my kids to emigrate.
- abawany 3y ago
  I'm not a brit but I see things a bit differently - the culture is innovative ('clever') and favors restlessness, which holds hope. Consider the raspberry pi and 3d printing, both relatively recent british innovations that changed the world considerably. The current government and their troubles aside, I have a feeling the british boffins will continue making a difference in the world and remain relevant on the world stage for a while yet. Also, all this talk of british weakness but no one would dare attempt a falklands for quite a while without getting a bloody nose for it. Finally, while brexit was more than a flesh wound, I feel confident the country will work its way through it eventually though it will likely require a different party in power before that happens. Edit: minor updates to post.
  - andyjohnson0 3y ago

mym1990 3y ago

A decade(s) of poor leadership in an era of fast moving technology will do that!

throw_pm23 3y ago
That may be the case, but a simple reversion to the mean may also be sufficient explanation. If everyone plays in a globalised (more or less) even playing field, then sooner or later they catch up and the initial lead will matter less.
- mym1990 3y ago
  Its likely both, no one stays on top of the world forever, and globalization did well to level some playing fields!

justrealist 3y ago

That's a pretty simplistic view re: Turkey. Turkey did become irrelevant after WWI, but is far more of a power today than it was 30 years ago, and given the relative dysfunction of the neighborhood, it's only going to get stronger.

meroes 3y ago

The UK in the 1880s to now is a very large decline in world power. It might be the largest decline while remaining intact of any nation. In that respect it’s actually doing well

ben_w 3y ago
There's at least an Ireland-shaped gap in "while remaining intact". Possibly also Malta, given the brief window of opportunity where they might have ended up with seats in Westminster, but I'm much less confident about that.

password54321 3y ago

What a load of over generalised nonsense.

ben_w 3y ago

There was a recent quote from Anand Menon that sums up my feelings: "Much excitement in the family whatsapp group this morning at the prospect of an Indian and a Pakistani bringing about the partition of Britain" - https://twitter.com/anandMenon1/status/1640612440051163137 https://twitter.com/anandMenon1/status/1640612440051163137 An Indian I work with also found this quite amusing.

bee_rider 3y ago

The fact that they wouldn’t have the same industrial advantages as, say, the long dead British Empire, has to have been baked into the creation of this institute in 2015. I think it is just… the idea of doing something “in a country” is just generally an unnecessary and vexing constraint. “American” companies are leading the pack here because America is a nice regulatory environment for a Global company to plop down a headquarters. Also it is research stuff, there’s a random aspect to it. We’ve just got more dice to roll by virtue of having more researchers in the US.

andyjohnson0 3y ago

> Well, it kinda looks like Great Britain is becoming less Great each passing decade. I'm a brit and unfortunately I think you're broadly right. I wish my children were growing up in a more confident society that looks outward and forward, not inwards and to the past. The current government wants the uk to be an "powerhouse" (or whatever the latest slogan is) for AI, EVs, biotech, etc. But they're stuck in a view of the world that is somewhere between nostalgic nationalism and outright nativism. And pumping out constant culture-war paranioa about "immigrants" and betrayal. So we get brexit - an economic catastrophe - and their desperate need to be seen to be competing rather than collaborating on science research. Non-uk students avoid our universities because they can't get visas or because they're actively harrassed by the government once they're here. Scientists leave the UK for countries where they can get grants and decent equipment and actually do collaborative research. Meanwhile we build useless aircraft carriers that we can't afford to operate, and stage bread and circuses pagents in London - while the food banks have never been busier, and huge numbers of people grind away in poverty. But the important thing is that we're good at tradition and we have history. The country's industrial and scientific base is decaying, as is its infrastructure outside of the London bubble, and none of the grifters and fantasists running the country have a clue. I'll be advising my kids to emigrate.

abawany 3y ago
I'm not a brit but I see things a bit differently - the culture is innovative ('clever') and favors restlessness, which holds hope. Consider the raspberry pi and 3d printing, both relatively recent british innovations that changed the world considerably. The current government and their troubles aside, I have a feeling the british boffins will continue making a difference in the world and remain relevant on the world stage for a while yet. Also, all this talk of british weakness but no one would dare attempt a falklands for quite a while without getting a bloody nose for it. Finally, while brexit was more than a flesh wound, I feel confident the country will work its way through it eventually though it will likely require a different party in power before that happens. Edit: minor updates to post.
- andyjohnson0 3y ago