4 ms·

> The hot coffee lawsuit ... So much lawyers' propaganda. We are engineers here. We are aware that coffee is water that boils at 100 degrees centigrade and get

by harry8 3y ago

> The hot coffee lawsuit ... So much lawyers' propaganda. We are engineers here. We are aware that coffee is water that boils at 100 degrees centigrade and gets no hotter than that. Every damn idiot and those more intelligent know full well that writing "Caution: contents hot" in microscopic text does absolutely nothing to make recently boiled water more safe. Sure we should all feel sorry for someone who is badly burnt. Absolutely we should. It is inhuman not to feel so. And who can fee sorry for a corporation? Nobody should. And we've let the lawyers use that sympathy to run riot writing themselves cheques on society's labor. As engineers we look at it and cry "Tort reform now!" and it is further and further away? Is it what killed Carter's presidency? Dunno. Last time it was anywhere near having anything done and that was 4 decades ago? But go ahead and keep repeating it like the water was super heated to a 1000 degrees and writing text on the foam cup stops anyone from being burnt by boiled water. Or don't. Really, just don't. Just because something sounds insane doesn't mean to say it actually isn't.

SkipperCat 3y ago
From Wikipedia... "McDonalds had received more than 700 reports of people burned by their coffee to varying degrees of severity". I remember reading a lot about this. It was the fact that McDonalds knew they had a dangerous product but wanted to keep it "hot" at the drive-thru so it would still be drinkable after people finished their car rides. That was a large factor of why the courts found McDonalds 80% liable in the case.
- harry8 3y ago
  yeah if you want to argue the cups were rubbish and negligently so, fine. Go right ahead, there /may/ be a sensible discussion to be had there somewhere. It is at least possible "Caution contents hot" Does not seem to be any way an engineering fix for this though, does it? Like seriously, why do you think that is written there? People expect cold? That fixes it? The mind boggles. So many legal fees on garbage like this. But yeah, the lawyers got everyone jumping to their BS and so the zeitgeist will go into wikipedia. Caution: contents silly.
  - SkipperCat 3y ago
    I think a lot of the case focused on the temperature of the coffee. McDonalds brewed it above 135F and that put it in the category of "burn risk". They could have brewed it slightly cooler, but McDonalds thought it would detract from the taste. Having "caution hot" was probably not enough of a warning. They should have put "caution burn risk" or something like that on the cups.
    - harry8 3y ago
      A purchaser has zero right to assume that a freshly brewed cup of coffee can't burn them. I mean seriously wtf? Children should know better and do. A purchaser has no right to blame anyone else for putting a freshly brewed cup of coffee between their legs while driving a car. That is dangerous and reckless driving and they should be charged for not taking the proper regard for others safety. You can hate mcdonalds and I /really/ do and see this BS for what it is. Exploiting your sympathy for a burn victim to accrue a mass of lawyers fees. This case and all the other legal actions on the same principle. You don't have to be a "rugged individualist championing personal responsibility above all things" (aka libtard) to see it. You can even be a a massive socialist and still see the incredible damage to ordinary people engendered by this frankly insane interpretation and enforcement of the law. Nobody is safer, but the existing lawyers get richer and their highly productive segment of the economy grows. The effect on insurance premiums across the entire economy has been profound and immense. Add up all the legal fees and flow on then compare to "caution: contents hot" written in tiny print on a cup that cannot be seen without holding said cup. Include all the additional legal fees from just this kind of nonsense for any small business trying to grow that come out of this. That is the outcome. It's such an idiotic "AKHTUALLY it's not what it seems." AKHTUHALLY it's not crazy like it sounds because it's really good for lawyers who have a huge interest in avoiding the necessary legal reforms and have done a truly stellar job pursuing those interests.
gamblor956 3y ago
We are engineers here. We are aware that coffee is water that boils at 100 degrees centigrade and gets no hotter than that. An engineer should know that the temperatures being used in this context are in Fahrenheit, and that on the Fahrenheit scale the boiling point of water is 212 degrees... But go ahead and keep repeating it like the water was super heated to a 1000 degrees and writing text on the foam cup stops anyone from being burnt by boiled water. McDonald's knew that the design of the cup and lid were defective, given that they had received several hundred reports of burned customers prior to the woman in the Hot Coffee lawsuit. The "Hot Coffee" moniker is actually propaganda from far-right Koch-funded tort "reformers" who have spent tens of millions to convince people that this case was about just about someone spilling hot coffee (it was not) instead of a poorly designed product being kept in the market despite the business knowing of its flaws and choosing not to fix them (like the Ford Pinto).
emodendroket 3y ago
If there was nothing wrong and nothing that could be done how come they switched to a different, more rigid cup that was less likely to spill in the same way after they lost the lawsuit?
- harry8 3y ago
  "caution: contents hot"
  - emodendroket 3y ago
    Sorry, does this answer my question somehow?
    - harry8 3y ago
      There can be no improvement of anything with safety implications without an admission of guilt? Writing "Caution: contents hot" in tiny writing that cannot be seen until after the cup is picked up is not a safety improvement so no admission there. I can hold two things in my head at once. I can be desperately sorry that a lady spilled coffee down her crotch and got burned and have a great deal of sympathy for her, I could have done something as idiotic as that, easy. There but for the grace of $deity go I. At the same time I can think that really isn't anyone else's fault that she put a cup of takeaway coffee between her legs driving a car. Making decisions as poorly as that should preclude you from having a license. A rigid cup could have had the same result and while in agonizing pain she could easily have run down children. Writing "caution: contents hot" in tiny writing is just flipping daft and deserves to be scorned for the nonsense from awful lawyers that it is. This idiotic thing that looks idiotic because it is gets the AKTUHALLY treatment to defend lawyers and stop tort reform. Bleh. Oh, btw, I hate mcdonalds.
melagonster 3y ago
she only required medical fee. but jury decided company should get punishment.

by harry8 3y ago

SkipperCat 3y ago

From Wikipedia... "McDonalds had received more than 700 reports of people burned by their coffee to varying degrees of severity". I remember reading a lot about this. It was the fact that McDonalds knew they had a dangerous product but wanted to keep it "hot" at the drive-thru so it would still be drinkable after people finished their car rides. That was a large factor of why the courts found McDonalds 80% liable in the case.

harry8 3y ago
yeah if you want to argue the cups were rubbish and negligently so, fine. Go right ahead, there /may/ be a sensible discussion to be had there somewhere. It is at least possible "Caution contents hot" Does not seem to be any way an engineering fix for this though, does it? Like seriously, why do you think that is written there? People expect cold? That fixes it? The mind boggles. So many legal fees on garbage like this. But yeah, the lawyers got everyone jumping to their BS and so the zeitgeist will go into wikipedia. Caution: contents silly.
- SkipperCat 3y ago
  I think a lot of the case focused on the temperature of the coffee. McDonalds brewed it above 135F and that put it in the category of "burn risk". They could have brewed it slightly cooler, but McDonalds thought it would detract from the taste. Having "caution hot" was probably not enough of a warning. They should have put "caution burn risk" or something like that on the cups.
  - harry8 3y ago
    A purchaser has zero right to assume that a freshly brewed cup of coffee can't burn them. I mean seriously wtf? Children should know better and do. A purchaser has no right to blame anyone else for putting a freshly brewed cup of coffee between their legs while driving a car. That is dangerous and reckless driving and they should be charged for not taking the proper regard for others safety. You can hate mcdonalds and I /really/ do and see this BS for what it is. Exploiting your sympathy for a burn victim to accrue a mass of lawyers fees. This case and all the other legal actions on the same principle. You don't have to be a "rugged individualist championing personal responsibility above all things" (aka libtard) to see it. You can even be a a massive socialist and still see the incredible damage to ordinary people engendered by this frankly insane interpretation and enforcement of the law. Nobody is safer, but the existing lawyers get richer and their highly productive segment of the economy grows. The effect on insurance premiums across the entire economy has been profound and immense. Add up all the legal fees and flow on then compare to "caution: contents hot" written in tiny print on a cup that cannot be seen without holding said cup. Include all the additional legal fees from just this kind of nonsense for any small business trying to grow that come out of this. That is the outcome. It's such an idiotic "AKHTUALLY it's not what it seems." AKHTUHALLY it's not crazy like it sounds because it's really good for lawyers who have a huge interest in avoiding the necessary legal reforms and have done a truly stellar job pursuing those interests.

gamblor956 3y ago

We are engineers here. We are aware that coffee is water that boils at 100 degrees centigrade and gets no hotter than that. An engineer should know that the temperatures being used in this context are in Fahrenheit, and that on the Fahrenheit scale the boiling point of water is 212 degrees... But go ahead and keep repeating it like the water was super heated to a 1000 degrees and writing text on the foam cup stops anyone from being burnt by boiled water. McDonald's knew that the design of the cup and lid were defective, given that they had received several hundred reports of burned customers prior to the woman in the Hot Coffee lawsuit. The "Hot Coffee" moniker is actually propaganda from far-right Koch-funded tort "reformers" who have spent tens of millions to convince people that this case was about just about someone spilling hot coffee (it was not) instead of a poorly designed product being kept in the market despite the business knowing of its flaws and choosing not to fix them (like the Ford Pinto).

emodendroket 3y ago

If there was nothing wrong and nothing that could be done how come they switched to a different, more rigid cup that was less likely to spill in the same way after they lost the lawsuit?

harry8 3y ago
"caution: contents hot"
- emodendroket 3y ago
  Sorry, does this answer my question somehow?
  - harry8 3y ago
    There can be no improvement of anything with safety implications without an admission of guilt? Writing "Caution: contents hot" in tiny writing that cannot be seen until after the cup is picked up is not a safety improvement so no admission there. I can hold two things in my head at once. I can be desperately sorry that a lady spilled coffee down her crotch and got burned and have a great deal of sympathy for her, I could have done something as idiotic as that, easy. There but for the grace of $deity go I. At the same time I can think that really isn't anyone else's fault that she put a cup of takeaway coffee between her legs driving a car. Making decisions as poorly as that should preclude you from having a license. A rigid cup could have had the same result and while in agonizing pain she could easily have run down children. Writing "caution: contents hot" in tiny writing is just flipping daft and deserves to be scorned for the nonsense from awful lawyers that it is. This idiotic thing that looks idiotic because it is gets the AKTUHALLY treatment to defend lawyers and stop tort reform. Bleh. Oh, btw, I hate mcdonalds.

melagonster 3y ago

she only required medical fee. but jury decided company should get punishment.