4 ms·

I’m a happy user of multiple Apple product, but I wish they had serious competition in the mobile OS space. Apple is remarkable that they strive for constant im

I’m a happy user of multiple Apple product, but I wish they had serious competition in the mobile OS space. Apple is remarkable that they strive for constant improvements anyway, even without good competition, but I’d rather we had multiple good vendors for an important thing, rather than one. I’m not flaming Google or Android. By “competition” I mean “a mobile OS vendor who cares primarily about their users, and acts in their benefit.” Today mobile vendors pick Android because it allows them to cheaply treat their users like chattel. Those vendors act in predictable old ways — attempting lock-in; adding half-assed features behind subscriptions gates; shoddy cloud services which will be abandoned in 18 months; dark patterns to trick people further into their channels; difficult, delayed, or non-existent OS and security updates. I wish Microsoft had been more on-the-ball. Their phones were roadkill, from a market standpoint, but at least they were trying. Some of their ideas and their execution were quite good. Say what you will about their enterprise focus, at least they don’t institutionally treat users like krill, the way Google does. And the way Android affords mobile vendors to.

bilal4hmed 3y ago
we kinda did in the beginning with Nokia, Blackberry, Palm, Microsoft with maybe Nokia and Palm having the most potential. Sadly those companies got complacent and the devs didnt want to support multiple platforms and we are here today with 2 platforms.
- sonofhans 3y ago
  Yeah, funny, they didn’t feel like they were being complacent. I remember reading interviews at the time, with some of those vendors touting their “speed of innovation.” They all felt that way until Apple showed them how it’s really done. Only a very few global organizations even have the capacity to dream about designing/building/shipping hardware on the cadence and scale that Apple does. I can’t think of a single vendor that succeeds at it for anything non-trivial.
  - bilal4hmed 3y ago
    At that point I would say Nokia had that sort of prowess but their hubris overtook every thing First it was resistive touch screens Then it was symbian not adapted for touch , then meego not merging with symbian They just got lost in their own thoughts
- pmontra 3y ago
  Frankly having to support 3 platforms, two major ones and a minor one (Windows) was something no customer of mine was keen of. Multiplatform tools were not that great so they had to spend three times the same amount of money instead of two to do native development and testing, plus the extra complexity of the design process because of different UI patterns. Everybody was hoping that Windows Mobile would die and it did.
- kaba0 3y ago
  I believe that 2 is a magic number here, and we are stuck with it. No new platform can emerge unless it supports every app from one of this two.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
I really liked Windows Phone 8, it is sad that MS couldn't make that work (disclaimer: I worked for MS back when WP was a thing, and work for Google now). They had a nice UI, tiles really work on phones vs. full size laptops.
EricE 3y ago
I had a windows CE phone before the iPhone came out - my biggest regret is waiting for my contract for it to expire before switching to the iPhone :p
danaris 3y ago
> I’m a happy user of multiple Apple product, but I wish they had serious competition in the mobile OS space. I'm right there with you. In fact, I'll state an even stronger position: I wish there were at least 3-5x more choices of platform for all form factors of computing device. The duopoly that developed during the '90s was so clearly unhealthy, and yet it has set the expectations for OS competition so completely that many people seem to think it is an inevitability. If we had a half-dozen or more mainstream OS choices, there would be massively more pressure for interoperability. That would mean that rather than lock-in, the various OS vendors would have to compete on things people actually like. Now, just as you, I am a happy Apple user, and have been since before Jobs' return as iCEO. From where I sit, Apple does very much try to provide things that users want, to some extent... ...but if they had 4 more real competitors, there's much more chance that some of them would be providing many of those same things, and thus pushing Apple to do better and be better (just as you implied, indeed).
- bilal4hmed 3y ago
  4 competitors is asking a lot .. imagine the green bubble fiasco then. I think the market likes a duopoly as that is what can be supported by the devs easily.
legitster 3y ago
> I wish Microsoft had been more on-the-ball. Their phones were roadkill, from a market standpoint, but at least they were trying. Some of their ideas and their execution were quite good. As with a lot of things, Microsoft was walked over by their partners. Either the abysmal third-party hardware they were forced to support, or even how Verizon screwed them over on their Kin phones.
jareklupinski 3y ago
> attempting lock-in; adding half-assed features behind subscriptions gates; shoddy cloud services which will be abandoned in 18 months; dark patterns to trick people further into their channels; difficult, delayed, or non-existent OS and security updates The reason that this is the only way to create a viable business is because your competition will be doing it. Unfortunately, non-technical customers will eventually fall into one of these traps as long as one of your competitors is doing it. Therefore, it is only a matter of time after one company deploys the regressive standard, before everyone else copies it (or goes out of business). The phrase they like using is "leaving money on the table".... makes me think of tipping...
- sonofhans 3y ago
  > The reason that this is the only way to create a viable business is because your competition will be doing it. Only if you choose to play in that market. If your goal is to make thin margins on undifferentiated products, sure, lard up your cheap-ass product with a bunch of useless shit to capture the unwary. Better to play in another pool.
  - jareklupinski 3y ago
    is there a pool that can't be overrun by people trying to make a quick buck? it seems that in every market it's only a matter of time until the barrier to entry becomes low enough that people with scruples suddenly need not apply
skc 3y ago
People say this now in hindsight, but I very, very distinctly remember how people ridiculed any efforts at creating a third ecosystem. You had very influential tech sites literally memeing the likes of Windows Phone or Palm or Blackberry's renewed efforts. Of course that ended up having a massive negative effect on the willingness of developers to support these platforms. If the argument is that they just weren't good enough, then nobody should be complaining today seeing as we now have by definition the best mobile platform in iOS. If I sound bitter it's probably because I still think back fondly to my Nokia Lumia devices. :(
- r00fus 3y ago
  I blame Microsoft for sticking the knife into Nokia via Stephen Elop. Nokia wasn’t doing that well initially responding to Apple but I think they may have done better that what Microsoft tried to do.
lostmsu 3y ago
How do you use an OS without a backward button/gesture?

bilal4hmed 3y ago

we kinda did in the beginning with Nokia, Blackberry, Palm, Microsoft with maybe Nokia and Palm having the most potential. Sadly those companies got complacent and the devs didnt want to support multiple platforms and we are here today with 2 platforms.

sonofhans 3y ago
Yeah, funny, they didn’t feel like they were being complacent. I remember reading interviews at the time, with some of those vendors touting their “speed of innovation.” They all felt that way until Apple showed them how it’s really done. Only a very few global organizations even have the capacity to dream about designing/building/shipping hardware on the cadence and scale that Apple does. I can’t think of a single vendor that succeeds at it for anything non-trivial.
- bilal4hmed 3y ago
  At that point I would say Nokia had that sort of prowess but their hubris overtook every thing First it was resistive touch screens Then it was symbian not adapted for touch , then meego not merging with symbian They just got lost in their own thoughts
pmontra 3y ago
Frankly having to support 3 platforms, two major ones and a minor one (Windows) was something no customer of mine was keen of. Multiplatform tools were not that great so they had to spend three times the same amount of money instead of two to do native development and testing, plus the extra complexity of the design process because of different UI patterns. Everybody was hoping that Windows Mobile would die and it did.
kaba0 3y ago
I believe that 2 is a magic number here, and we are stuck with it. No new platform can emerge unless it supports every app from one of this two.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

I really liked Windows Phone 8, it is sad that MS couldn't make that work (disclaimer: I worked for MS back when WP was a thing, and work for Google now). They had a nice UI, tiles really work on phones vs. full size laptops.

EricE 3y ago

I had a windows CE phone before the iPhone came out - my biggest regret is waiting for my contract for it to expire before switching to the iPhone :p

danaris 3y ago

> I’m a happy user of multiple Apple product, but I wish they had serious competition in the mobile OS space. I'm right there with you. In fact, I'll state an even stronger position: I wish there were at least 3-5x more choices of platform for all form factors of computing device. The duopoly that developed during the '90s was so clearly unhealthy, and yet it has set the expectations for OS competition so completely that many people seem to think it is an inevitability. If we had a half-dozen or more mainstream OS choices, there would be massively more pressure for interoperability. That would mean that rather than lock-in, the various OS vendors would have to compete on things people actually like. Now, just as you, I am a happy Apple user, and have been since before Jobs' return as iCEO. From where I sit, Apple does very much try to provide things that users want, to some extent... ...but if they had 4 more real competitors, there's much more chance that some of them would be providing many of those same things, and thus pushing Apple to do better and be better (just as you implied, indeed).

bilal4hmed 3y ago
4 competitors is asking a lot .. imagine the green bubble fiasco then. I think the market likes a duopoly as that is what can be supported by the devs easily.

legitster 3y ago

> I wish Microsoft had been more on-the-ball. Their phones were roadkill, from a market standpoint, but at least they were trying. Some of their ideas and their execution were quite good. As with a lot of things, Microsoft was walked over by their partners. Either the abysmal third-party hardware they were forced to support, or even how Verizon screwed them over on their Kin phones.

jareklupinski 3y ago

> attempting lock-in; adding half-assed features behind subscriptions gates; shoddy cloud services which will be abandoned in 18 months; dark patterns to trick people further into their channels; difficult, delayed, or non-existent OS and security updates The reason that this is the only way to create a viable business is because your competition will be doing it. Unfortunately, non-technical customers will eventually fall into one of these traps as long as one of your competitors is doing it. Therefore, it is only a matter of time after one company deploys the regressive standard, before everyone else copies it (or goes out of business). The phrase they like using is "leaving money on the table".... makes me think of tipping...

sonofhans 3y ago
> The reason that this is the only way to create a viable business is because your competition will be doing it. Only if you choose to play in that market. If your goal is to make thin margins on undifferentiated products, sure, lard up your cheap-ass product with a bunch of useless shit to capture the unwary. Better to play in another pool.
- jareklupinski 3y ago
  is there a pool that can't be overrun by people trying to make a quick buck? it seems that in every market it's only a matter of time until the barrier to entry becomes low enough that people with scruples suddenly need not apply

skc 3y ago

People say this now in hindsight, but I very, very distinctly remember how people ridiculed any efforts at creating a third ecosystem. You had very influential tech sites literally memeing the likes of Windows Phone or Palm or Blackberry's renewed efforts. Of course that ended up having a massive negative effect on the willingness of developers to support these platforms. If the argument is that they just weren't good enough, then nobody should be complaining today seeing as we now have by definition the best mobile platform in iOS. If I sound bitter it's probably because I still think back fondly to my Nokia Lumia devices. :(

r00fus 3y ago
I blame Microsoft for sticking the knife into Nokia via Stephen Elop. Nokia wasn’t doing that well initially responding to Apple but I think they may have done better that what Microsoft tried to do.

lostmsu 3y ago

How do you use an OS without a backward button/gesture?