5 ms·

I can't wait for these concepts to work better, in a few years from now, I could imagine myself mostly prompting, making small code and integration changes, and

I can't wait for these concepts to work better, in a few years from now, I could imagine myself mostly prompting, making small code and integration changes, and writing 90% less code than I have been doing throughout most of my career. As much as I like actually writing code, I very much prefer to be able to let my ideas flow free while being able to be creative. But often I stop short with exploring ideas, because the time it takes to code together an MVP is too long. With GPT4, that time is already cut by 1/3 for me, and with that the process is becoming increasingly enjoyable to me. I'm absolutely yearning to just put the code in the backseat so to speak.

emodendroket 3y ago
That sounds like a really dull way to work to me, but I suppose I'd be a hypocrite if I complained about new software making my job rote and uninteresting.
- fbrncci 3y ago
  Well to each it’s own. I want to hack together stuff and make it work. The less time spend on code, the faster I can figure out what does and not.
- nemothekid 3y ago
  Some parts of engineering are really just copying and pasting the most banal scaffolding for some framework that refuses to work. I've been working on a side project where I get to play generics golf in Rust to my hearts content, but having to constantly Google what magic incantation I have to write to get react-hook-form to properly allow me to write variable input fields for an array of strings is mind numbing. [hint: useFieldsArray only works with objects, but the TS compiler wasn't smart enough to suggest that me]
  - emodendroket 3y ago
    True, products like Copilot do seem promising in that way.
    - aksss 3y ago
      Copilot is great for this and it’s impressive how the code it suggests is in keeping with the conventions used in the existing code base. Will be even better when I can highlight something like a string literal SQL statement in code and have it suggest optimizations. That’s just a tooling issue but that kind of context switching within the IDE will be fantastic.
      - emodendroket 3y ago
        I used a competing product due to work restrictions and it feels like it _could_ be really useful but in practice mostly was just helpful for banging out really repetitive tests. I think Copilot is probably more robust though.
        9dev 3y ago
        It really is. We use Copilot with three senior and two junior devs, and all of them really reported that it consistently suggests code snippets that are exactly what they were about to type. Initially, I was a bit concerned about handing it over to the juniors, but it turns out, they aren’t really used to working with an IDE and context aware suggestions yet, so they don’t use Copilot to its fullest extent and often type stuff out even if it’s suggested to them.
      - easton 3y ago
        The Copilot Chat thingy they have in private beta has this, you can highlight a block and ask it to simplify/optimize. Not sure how well it works in big multi-file examples, but I had a block of PowerShell in a single file it was able to work with.
        aksss 3y ago
        I’m still waiting on my invitation for the vs2022 copilot chat preview. :( Looking forward to it though.
- anonzzzies 3y ago
  I write (when I write anything; I am a product manager) mostly compilers, databases, optimisations and create/invent programming languages and DSLs for the former. This work contains a lot of tedious stuff which I hate, but also contains (80/20 rule) work that takes by far the most time and least code; hardcore and cutting computer science mixed with a lot of cross cutting decisions (a wrong decision will destroy a lot of work all over the place). That’s the work I like. I don’t see that work being replaced by AIs soon (10+ years), but the tedious work I hope will be replaced today, and it is getting there; currently large swaths are now done by copilot or gpt for us.
Rodeoclash 3y ago
I too can't wait for the day where I need to threaten the computer into doing what I want it to do: https://imgur.com/KQ9oRAh https://imgur.com/KQ9oRAh https://imgur.com/By7mqDi https://imgur.com/By7mqDi https://imgur.com/RiYrvXC https://imgur.com/RiYrvXC
- akiselev 3y ago
  I've found that LLMs have some intense binary trypophobia. Once you start replacing all their 1s with 0s, they quickly fall in line.
  - fintechie 3y ago
    What I find astonishing is the wall of text he wrote to get a simple json with 2 key/value pairs. It almost defeats the point of using LLMs as productivity hack.
    - Kamq 3y ago
      The productivity hack is usually in getting examples of things you don't know how to do (or are unsure of the best way to do). Programming languages are pretty optimized for precision, if you want a specific thing done, and you already know how to do it, it's probably going to be quicker to just write the code for quite some time. Getting natural language to be that precise requires, well, a wall of text usually. Hence the overly verbose language of more rigorous philosophy.
    - skytrue 3y ago
      This isn’t reality. Using ChatGPT this way is fruitless, because there is a system prompt you’re fighting against. I can write a one sentence system prompt for the GPT API that specifies GPT to only spit out JSON, and it works fine. It’s a pretty funny series of image, though.
      - verdverm 3y ago
        Interesting, so you are saying you have an easier time generating JSON using the single prompt models like text-davinci and text-bison, rather than the chat versions?
gonzan 3y ago
That’s already how I’m building new projects, I mostly only write/reorder UI code since it’s what LLMs struggle with the most. I’m building a VS Code extension that makes this easier by having context on the code and building features on top of it with no copy-pasting required. The extension is called Kamara: https://kamaraapp.com/ https://kamaraapp.com/ If you’re interested in trying it out for building an MVP of one of your ideas I’m happy to send over some free credits
biql 3y ago
As someone who considered giving up on programming due to wrist pain from typing, this is my dream as well. I also prefer to work independently or in small teams, and the amount of things that could be tackled this way is surely increasing. There is no reason why programming shouldn't to be more about thinking and less about typing.
- fbrncci 3y ago
  Have you ever done extensive stretching? I do Yoga (3-6hrs per week), and spend some 10-20 minutes stretching my wrists neck after work. If I don't, I am facing the same problem.

emodendroket 3y ago

That sounds like a really dull way to work to me, but I suppose I'd be a hypocrite if I complained about new software making my job rote and uninteresting.

fbrncci 3y ago
Well to each it’s own. I want to hack together stuff and make it work. The less time spend on code, the faster I can figure out what does and not.
nemothekid 3y ago
Some parts of engineering are really just copying and pasting the most banal scaffolding for some framework that refuses to work. I've been working on a side project where I get to play generics golf in Rust to my hearts content, but having to constantly Google what magic incantation I have to write to get react-hook-form to properly allow me to write variable input fields for an array of strings is mind numbing. [hint: useFieldsArray only works with objects, but the TS compiler wasn't smart enough to suggest that me]
- emodendroket 3y ago
  True, products like Copilot do seem promising in that way.
  - aksss 3y ago
    Copilot is great for this and it’s impressive how the code it suggests is in keeping with the conventions used in the existing code base. Will be even better when I can highlight something like a string literal SQL statement in code and have it suggest optimizations. That’s just a tooling issue but that kind of context switching within the IDE will be fantastic.
    - emodendroket 3y ago
      I used a competing product due to work restrictions and it feels like it _could_ be really useful but in practice mostly was just helpful for banging out really repetitive tests. I think Copilot is probably more robust though.
      - 9dev 3y ago
        It really is. We use Copilot with three senior and two junior devs, and all of them really reported that it consistently suggests code snippets that are exactly what they were about to type. Initially, I was a bit concerned about handing it over to the juniors, but it turns out, they aren’t really used to working with an IDE and context aware suggestions yet, so they don’t use Copilot to its fullest extent and often type stuff out even if it’s suggested to them.
    - easton 3y ago
      The Copilot Chat thingy they have in private beta has this, you can highlight a block and ask it to simplify/optimize. Not sure how well it works in big multi-file examples, but I had a block of PowerShell in a single file it was able to work with.
      - aksss 3y ago
        I’m still waiting on my invitation for the vs2022 copilot chat preview. :( Looking forward to it though.
anonzzzies 3y ago
I write (when I write anything; I am a product manager) mostly compilers, databases, optimisations and create/invent programming languages and DSLs for the former. This work contains a lot of tedious stuff which I hate, but also contains (80/20 rule) work that takes by far the most time and least code; hardcore and cutting computer science mixed with a lot of cross cutting decisions (a wrong decision will destroy a lot of work all over the place). That’s the work I like. I don’t see that work being replaced by AIs soon (10+ years), but the tedious work I hope will be replaced today, and it is getting there; currently large swaths are now done by copilot or gpt for us.

Rodeoclash 3y ago

I too can't wait for the day where I need to threaten the computer into doing what I want it to do: https://imgur.com/KQ9oRAh https://imgur.com/KQ9oRAh https://imgur.com/By7mqDi https://imgur.com/By7mqDi https://imgur.com/RiYrvXC https://imgur.com/RiYrvXC

akiselev 3y ago
I've found that LLMs have some intense binary trypophobia. Once you start replacing all their 1s with 0s, they quickly fall in line.
- fintechie 3y ago
  What I find astonishing is the wall of text he wrote to get a simple json with 2 key/value pairs. It almost defeats the point of using LLMs as productivity hack.
  - Kamq 3y ago
    The productivity hack is usually in getting examples of things you don't know how to do (or are unsure of the best way to do). Programming languages are pretty optimized for precision, if you want a specific thing done, and you already know how to do it, it's probably going to be quicker to just write the code for quite some time. Getting natural language to be that precise requires, well, a wall of text usually. Hence the overly verbose language of more rigorous philosophy.
  - skytrue 3y ago
    This isn’t reality. Using ChatGPT this way is fruitless, because there is a system prompt you’re fighting against. I can write a one sentence system prompt for the GPT API that specifies GPT to only spit out JSON, and it works fine. It’s a pretty funny series of image, though.
    - verdverm 3y ago
      Interesting, so you are saying you have an easier time generating JSON using the single prompt models like text-davinci and text-bison, rather than the chat versions?

gonzan 3y ago

That’s already how I’m building new projects, I mostly only write/reorder UI code since it’s what LLMs struggle with the most. I’m building a VS Code extension that makes this easier by having context on the code and building features on top of it with no copy-pasting required. The extension is called Kamara: https://kamaraapp.com/ https://kamaraapp.com/ If you’re interested in trying it out for building an MVP of one of your ideas I’m happy to send over some free credits

biql 3y ago

As someone who considered giving up on programming due to wrist pain from typing, this is my dream as well. I also prefer to work independently or in small teams, and the amount of things that could be tackled this way is surely increasing. There is no reason why programming shouldn't to be more about thinking and less about typing.

fbrncci 3y ago
Have you ever done extensive stretching? I do Yoga (3-6hrs per week), and spend some 10-20 minutes stretching my wrists neck after work. If I don't, I am facing the same problem.