15 ms·
Framework Laptop 13 review: a DIY dream come true
- nrp 3y agoI'm happy to answer questions that folks have around this product.
- lousken 3y agoKinda related - any plans to expand the list of countries you ship to this year? Though, I am waiting for the 16"
- nrp 3y agoWe shared during our event in March that we'll be adding Spain, Italy, Belgium, and Taiwan this summer. We're building infrastructure to scale beyond that too, but we don't have a timeline or specific set of countries we can share yet.
- teruakohatu 3y agoWhen you expand to a country do you partner with local companies to provide support? I have been hoping New Zealand gets added to the list soon :)
- deivid 3y agoI have a gen12 i5. The thing I am dissappointed with is battery life. Will a motherboard swap to AMD significantly improve on this?
- stavros 3y agoI really hope so too, I bought the same laptop as you a few months ago, and battery life hasn't been great (not to mention it gets hot a lot). I love the laptop otherwise, so I'm hoping the switch to AMD will fix this.
- mkozlows 3y agoBased on the reviews, a motherboard swap to Intel 13th gen will significantly improve it.
- javajosh 3y agoWill you ever stop iterating on the chassis and focus purely on the replaceable components? Seems to me that a reparable/upgradable laptop doesn't matter if you keep changing the chassis such that in order to enjoy new features you need an entirely new laptop every iteration. It also feels to me, as an 11th gen owner, that I've been left behind with my power and sound issues. Which is basically the same boat as any laptop user.
- flapjaxy 3y agoI'm in the same boat. Though, I think about it differently; the fact that I can print a case and use the mobo as a headless server is a differentiator for me. I also don't know if it's possible to design an attractive functional chassis that doesn't need iterating. That being said I'd like to see a recycling program, or some way to reduce the environmental impact from upgrades.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- pcdoodle 3y agoeBay: The failed motherboards for instance will probably find new life from people selling their broken boards for $75, then component level repair shops can use the schematics to fix and then resell for $300+. People do this with macbooks "logic boards" without access to schematics and now with framework, the barrier of entry is even lower. Framework is doing something that goes back a long time, people like the parts swap capability (Long term car platforms for instance, created fanatics that became brand ambassadors and love to use this medium as an outlet to show off their ingenuity).
- CarVac 3y agoWhat's changed about the chassis?
- miloignis 3y agoFrom reading the Ars review, it certainly looks to me like you get the massive battery improvements without upgrading the chassis ( https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/05/review-framework-laptops-13th-gen-intel-upgrade-helps-fix-its-battery-problem/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/05/review-framework-lap... ). Is that not your understanding? Edit: The marketplace also has replacement speaker parts, like https://frame.work/products/speaker-kit?v=FRANBXFG03 https://frame.work/products/speaker-kit?v=FRANBXFG03 ) - I'm now even more confused about how your older chassis is holding you back.
- juujian 3y agoAny plans on FOSS stuff? Option to ship with some linux distro, dedicated linux support, maybe even libreboot or coreboot?
- pkulak 3y agoCoreboot, please!
- nrp 3y agoCurrently we offer the DIY Edition without an OS installed and have setup guides and community support for popular distros, along with technical support for Ubuntu LTS and Fedora. Our embedded controller firmware is open source, and we’ve opened sourced CAD and documentation for many of the hardware modules.
- spruengli 3y agoAny chance you can dispense with the logo?
- gubneor 3y agoBetter control over the power LED would be good -- its blinding in certain environments
- loufe 3y agoAny efforts going into OLED/AMOLED/MiniLED displays? It's my biggest hesitation point.
- CarVac 3y agoOr just one with a faster response time? The current panel has quite long rise times.
- yegle 3y agoI'd definitely want to try an eink display when/if it's available.
- inciampati 3y agoI feel you. I won't buy a laptop without an OLED panel. If you're going for a budget device, I totally understand not including a panel like this. But this doesn't seem to be a budget laptop. It's meant to last and be upgraded.
- DanHulton 3y agoWhy, oh why have you gone with the terrible "bar-style" arrow keys instead of t-shaped? Apple similarly made this mistake, and thankfully recanted. It was so miserable to use bar-style arrow keys that I've officially sworn off of any keyboard (or any machine with a keyboard) that has them.
- stavros 3y agoCan't you convert them into t-shaped keys by simply cutting the left/right arrows in half?
- drusepth 3y agoPart of the problem with the bar arrow keys is that the up/down are so small. I wouldn't want to "fix" the problem by making the left/right equally small.
- Macha 3y agoThey describe Apple as recanting though, but Apple's arrow keys are still half height.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y agoThat seems mechanically unlikely; they're probably attached in the middle.
- 2-718-281-828 3y agoit's a mathematical argument
- 2-718-281-828 3y agovery good point ... I'd question the entire design process based only on this flaw
- ecliptik 3y agoAny plans for more official FreeBSD or OpenBSD support?
- princevegeta89 3y agoHi. I have an m1 mac but always missed linux since I got it. Here are my questions if you can take a minute: How stable is the Linux laptop and what distros are officially supported? What would be the best possible battery life I can get out of that 13 inch Ryzen version that was recently released?
- lewisinc 3y agoHave you looked into Asahi Linux?
- princevegeta89 3y agoYes, but it's still miles away from being complete and I'm not sure if it will land in the next year
- bestouff 3y agoI also have an m1 under linux and I regret choosing it.
- mkozlows 3y agoI'm also curious about this for the 13th gen one. My hope is that it shares the 12th gen's excellent Linux compatibility (the only thing that doesn't work with that one is that you need to turn off the light sensor for the brightness keys to function properly), and that the Windows battery life improvements carry over to Linux. (The Ryzen one isn't out yet, so nobody will have battery life answers on that.)
- lillecarl 3y agoThey're using Intel radios, which is good. Intel and AMD are both good on CPU and GPU, the screen resolution is icky if you want to run X11, so you'll want wayland, and that is a can of worms. I'd say my KDE experience is great, but others complain more.
- nikodunk 3y agoThey officially support these Linux https://frame.work/linux https://frame.work/linux and I've been using it for 1.5 years - it's super stable. I get pretty great battery life on my 11th gen Intel Framework under Fedora, and it's apparently way better on the 13th gen. Also stoked for the Ryzen version later this year.
- csdreamer7 3y agoHi, thank you for founding Framework. Love my 12th gen framework laptop except for an issue with the headphone jack. Waiting on a replacement for that. I do wish the keyboard was better. See the Thinkpad. Using the function key for terminal paste + home and end forces me to spend a second to think to shift between this and my Thinkpad keyboards. I know you are coming out with magnetic ones-really looking forward to that and hope they match the thinkpad.
- spartanatreyu 3y agoAlso, the thinkpad keyboards have arrow keys can actually be pressed. I'd say the up and down keys are the two most used keys on my keyboard. My 11 year old mechanical keyboard just had its first switch failure a month ago, unsurprisingly on the up arrow key. If someone releases a proper keyboard module for the framework 16 by mid-december, then I'll be getting a 16', otherwise I'll probably going with a thinkpad.
- mecsred 3y agoI have a framework and never even noticed the arrow keys, because I've barely ever pressed them. Reading these comments gives me another reason to be thankful for vim keybindings.
- deadmutex 3y agoCan you please elaborate on why the new mobo is so much more power efficient? If anything is due to software (e.g. BIOS), will you be able to backport these changes to previous version? Also agree with reviewer's comments about privacy shutters being hard to see. My family members have complained about "laptop['s webcam] doesn't work" when the shutters were closed. This caused unnecessary bad experiences with using the laptop.
- mkozlows 3y agoAs a counterpoint, I love that they're subtle. I don't want big things glaring out at me. (But when they're disabled, there is an orange section. If you don't know that it's possible, as your family probably doesn't, you won't think anything of it, but it's easy to see at a glance the status.)
- Brian_K_White 3y agoOrange for "warning, you're safe" instead of "warning, you're on camera"? I've had mine for over 2 years and 2 mbs and never really noticed. I never use the webcam. I agree though, I would rather it be invisible unless I look specifically. Just the meaning when I DO look should be obvious, and orange for inactive is not obvious or natural to me except in maybe parachutes.
- deadmutex 3y agoI think consistency is important between vendors. It would be annoying if one vendor chose orange to mean that you're on camera, and another vendor would show orange to mean that you are off camera.
- prettyStandard 3y ago11th gen owner here. Yeah I found this confusing as well, but probably the least annoying thing that has bothered me on a laptop.
- deadmutex 3y ago> If you don't know that it's possible, as your family probably doesn't, you won't think anything of it Unfortunately, they just thought the laptop is buggy, since it was not obvious that this feature existed. This person is also a lead on a consumer hardware product at the big company, and is aware of general privacy shutter features etc. In this case, the issue was just that it was not obvious that there was a privacy shutter on the laptop.
- rowanG077 3y agoI have been wanting to design a framework case for my own use. Unfortunately the way I need to mount the motherboard means that the air in take is on the other side then it is in the Framework laptop. Would it be possible to either flip the fan or run it in reverse mode?
- collsni 3y agoHow does performance compare between your Intel and AMD flagships?
- goldforever 3y ago[dead]
- itscrush 3y agoI'm having the worst time hunting down a Cooler Master Mainboard Case ... seems like y'all have not had these in stock the numerous times I've checked, today even, https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case. Any inside info for us from Cooler Master on supply or ETA on stock from your sales page? I've tried direct with Cooler Master. The online store has 3 pages of cases, https://store.coolermaster.com/us/cases-2?pagenumber=3 https://store.coolermaster.com/us/cases-2?pagenumber=3 none included Framework's. Next I checked CM's 'find a store' which dead ends at suggesting Micro Center or Game Stop, which neither I find carry them. I don't have a 3d printer on-hand and don't think this warrants 100-200$ printer purchase. Should I go hunt around for some folks to help at a local college or hobby shop instead? I certainly can see up-cycling my 11th gen mainboard into a homelab asset with proxmox this year though. Without a mainboard case for this 11th gen on-hand though, I'll also not consider a mainboard upgrade. Any insight or guidance?
- nrp 3y agoCooler Master is currently in production on the first set of cases. We’ll send out an email notification to those who entered the waitlist on the product page once we have them in stock, which should be within the next few weeks.
- zamnos 3y agoWhat has somewhere like Shapeways.com quoted you to print it?
- itscrush 3y agoHad some trouble with that route ... https://www.printables.com/model/176903-framework-pc-mainboard-case-w-vesa-mount/collections https://www.printables.com/model/176903-framework-pc-mainboa... doesn't mention mm / cm scale so guessing mm? How many pins per build? Attempting quotes; I skipped shapeways, requiring an account to see a quote was it. Hubs.com was around 159$ before shipping and has errors on the connector pin integrity. I suspect they are upsizing me to a higher end material, with HP PA 12... difficult to toggle choices and get the price down. Craftcloud3d.com quoted me $28.58 and just about 17$ in shipping for PLA type, looks like their cheapest options before I consider how many pins I need to add. I can't tell if I need a minimum temp for these case materials, any guidance or is PLA fine? Seems about 5-10$ more expensive than CM mainboard case is expected to be.
- j01 3y agoHave you considered the option of allowing purchase without some components, e.g. storage? Plenty of people buying a new laptop already have an SSD.
- jamessb 3y agoTheir "DIY Edition" (vs "Pre-built") allows this: the laptop comes without memory and storage installed, and you either install your own or install separately packaged parts that you ordered at the same time during the configuration process.
- chabad360 3y agoAre we going to see improvements to the pricing overtime (and not just for last gen mobos)? Even the OP mentions that a roughly identical (spec wise) Dell laptop is $350 cheaper. It's rather hard for me (and even harder to convince someone else) to swallow that much of a premium.
- flapjaxy 3y agoAre there any plans to enhance the sound quality in future iterations? The 80dB speaker upgrade makes it louder, but the sound quality is still lacking compared to other traditional machines.
- gubneor 3y agowhats a traditional machine? it sounds a lot better than the system76 i had prior to it
- tough 3y agoMacbooks have great speakers, wondering if that's what he meant
- PotatoPancakes 3y agoPossibly, but literally no other laptops sound anywhere near as good as Macbooks.[0] Apple has done some real magic in the laptop speaker space, and they've kept their secrets to themselves. Shame I always wear headphones. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYB931iUjc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYB931iUjc
- Snuupy 3y agoDoesn't matter to me if Apple did laptop speaker magic, I want my next laptop to be comparable. ThinkPad X1 Carbon 7th gen (and newer), ThinkPad Z16 have good speakers for example so this is definitely doable, just enough people have to want it to happen.
- Clamchop 3y agoApple is way out ahead of the pack on this point. No (?) trad PC laptop is on the same level so it seems like kinda a high bar to clear.
- Brian_K_White 3y agoDude.. macbooks are famously outlier way better than anyone else for sound. Framework is the same as 99% everyone else on that item.
- atribecalledqst 3y agoI'm definitely thinking about getting a Framework, I could use a decent Windows / Linux laptop for random hacking (and some light gaming). Might wait until the next model comes out though since I don't have any immediate need. Being able to replace components in my 2012-era Macbook Pro has saved me a number of times and a laptop that's built around that ideal sounds great to me. Are Frameworks generally in pretty high demand and hard to get? Like when the next model comes out, can I basically expect that it will be impossible to get for a while?
- mkozlows 3y agoThey're a small company, so at launch they meter them out through pre-orders. If you order now, you have to wait for later "waves." Once they're out for a while, though, they're just normal "pick one up and buy it" things.
- mustaflex 3y agoIt would be nice if Framework can share a roadmap for availability outside U.S (I'm from Belgium) for all their products.
- albertopv 3y agoWe shared during our event in March that we'll be adding Spain, Italy, Belgium, ... | Hacker News https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35967906 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35967906
- snapplebobapple 3y agoI loved my initial kickstarter version of this laptop and am even happier with my 2022 model. Really looking forward to the larger model. Highly recommend these to everyone.
- rfwhyte 3y agoThe Verge has to have some of the worst reviews on the entire internet. All they ever talk about is subjective stuff like how the product "Looks" and "Feels" and are seemingly incapable of doing any actual work to provide things like benchmarks, comparisons, charts, graphs, etc. Just more of the same low effort, low quality garbage reporting as usual from the Verge. Like how do you do an entire review and not have a single benchmark or even a remotely qualitative battery life test let alone meaningful comparisons to competitive products?
- lillecarl 3y agoI like knowing how something feels, there's a reason people buy more expensive laptops without better performance. There are other reviewers who can provide this information. Since it's subjective I'm happy to hear as many voices as possible.
- thiht 3y agoHonestly from my experience laptop benchmarks are easily gamed and often useless. I'm way more interested in this kind of subjective review.
- camgunz 3y agoI think this is pretty unfair, they do a recap of stats and include battery life and speaker loudness measurements. Like a sibling comment says, feel and experience matter also. That said, it sounds like you'd be happier with Notebookcheck's review [0]. [0]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Core-i7-1370P-performance-debut-Framework-Laptop-13-5-13th-Gen-Intel-review.714563.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Core-i7-1370P-performance-debu...
- cultofmetatron 3y agoexcitedly waiting for my ryzen model myself. Its such a relief to be able to order less ram and ssd knowing I can upgrade that later.
- princevegeta89 3y agoAre you willing to buy it once its released?
- toastal 3y agoThe bad (addendum): poor display panel options. No upgrades to DCI-P3 coverage, OLED, etc.
- hyperman1 3y agoI wonder if it is possible for a DIYer with a 3D printer to put a mainboard in a thinkpad X220. Or transplant the thinkpad keyboard to the Framework. All electrical connections are probably going to kill this idea stone dead, but a man can dream;-)
- DreamFlasher 3y agoI hope the review is indeed correct, my Framework Laptop 12 has horrible battery duration: Normal usage 3 hours, high CPU usage 2 hours, measured multiple times. Also the fan is constantly spinning, it's very loud and it's overheating.
- iamnotamouse 3y agoI like my 2022 framework, but the Linux support has been disappointing. I've had off and on display issues: both the built-in display, which used to constantly freeze (now less so), and external displays which sometimes will stop working until I switch kernels. Battery life is awful -- it'll last maybe 8 hours with the screen off (doing basically nothing, but not sleeping). A few hours of actual use. Sometimes the replaceable ports stop working until I re-insert them after boot. The manual screen brightness doesn't work until you disable the auto adjustment and reboot (not sure if this was fixed). It's about the level of support I'd expect form a laptop not specifically advertised as Linux friendly, except Linux was part of the marketing for Framework. Just want to put this out there since this review didn't test Linux.