3 ms·

This map (from 2015) shows sites with the most TCE groundwater contamination. Bay Area is actually quite clean. LA is completely fucked though https://www.ewg.

by culi 3y ago

This map (from 2015) shows sites with the most TCE groundwater contamination. Bay Area is actually quite clean. LA is completely fucked though https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/2018-tce/ https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/2018-tce/

xeromal 3y ago
Thanks for this. Kind of happy my state of GA has none!
- radlad 3y ago
  It's not clear to me where this data comes from - do spots that are unmarked have none, or are they unmeasured?
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    The data says it comes from public water systems. The EPA requires testing and reporting of water supplies for lots of things. That being said, if you run your own private well, you’re not subject to this.
- hindsightbias 3y ago
  https://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/35/7/4009 https://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/35/7/4009 http://www.l-a-k-e.org/blog/2013/10/csx-groundwater-contamination-in-waycross.html http://www.l-a-k-e.org/blog/2013/10/csx-groundwater-contamin...
uoaei 3y ago
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/toxic-chemical-found-oakland-mcclymonds-high-school-campus-closed/ https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/toxic-chemical-fou... > The Oakland Unified School district announced the temporary closure of the McClymonds to test for the chemical tricloroethylene (TCE), which was found in groundwater under the campus. > "This is West Oakland and so there is a history of environmental injustice, of racial injustice that happens in this community. So these are places where there are leaks, there are dumps, there are things like that that are not healthy for our community," said Jumoke Hinton Hodge, Oakland Board of Education District 3 Director. > McClymonds has recently seen a handful of students and former students develop cancer, including the high-profile cases Darryl Aikens, a McClymonds football player who died of leukemia a month after graduating in 2017, as well as 2018 graduate Ramone Sanders, who died of cancer last fall. Sanders was playing football at Laney College when he broke his leg and it was discovered he had bone cancer that spread to his lungs.
- dekhn 3y ago
  Cancer has a fairly high incident rate in the general public, so anecdotes about people getting cancer due to industrial solvents is often suspect. Most observations can be explained by a combination of base rates, and social determinants of health.
  - culi 3y ago
    The link between TCE and kidney cancer has already been very well established though. The Parkison's is just a cherry on top. If we know this place is contaminated, then we know there's increased risk of cancer. Full stop
  - uoaei 3y ago
    Two extremely athletic high-school-age people die within two years of each other of mysterious cancers, with an obvious presence of cancer-causing chemicals, and you want to pretend that cancer statistics that are heavily weighted toward the older and more obese somehow have any relevance here? Honestly I am quite disgusted at this take. How many readers want to bet this take is informed by more than a little implicit racial bias, these being Black men at a primarily Black high school in a primarily Black neighborhood?
    - dekhn 3y ago
      Well, I was trained as a scientist and medical researcher and did my phd thesis on cancer drugs. One thing you learn is that many people see patterns in cancer that are better explained by random numbers. See this doc, including the section "Some important points to consider". https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/understanding-cancer-risk/cancer-clusters.html https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/understanding-... You can be disgusted all you want but I think you're making an error.
jpmattia 3y ago
> This map (from 2015) shows sites with the most TCE groundwater contamination. But note there was more than TCE at those superfund sites.
athoun 3y ago
This is incorrect, or misleading at best. The map that you linked contains data about TCE levels in public water systems. It does not imply anything about the contamination of the groundwater supply which exists below many homes and workplaces in throughout the Bay Area. Contaminated soil and groundwater allows VOCs, such as TCE, to enter homes via a process called "vapor intrusion" and which can lead to negative health outcomes for the inhabitants even without ever drinking the groundwater [1]. The vast majority of the Bay Area population gets its water either from the Hetch Hetchy (SF, South Bay, Peninsula) or the Mokelumne River watershed (East Bay). This is surface water that is mostly clear of VOCs which is why nothing shows up on the map for the Bay Area that you shared. For a more accurate representation of the state of the groundwater in the Bay Area, see this map of chemical plumes (hint they're everywhere) [2]. [1] https://www.epa.gov/vaporintrusion/what-vapor-intrusion https://www.epa.gov/vaporintrusion/what-vapor-intrusion [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20141120123953/http://www.nbcbayarea.com/brchannel/Map-The-Chemical-Legacy-of-Silicon-Valley-258950021.html https://web.archive.org/web/20141120123953/http://www.nbcbay...
- culi 3y ago
  Fascinating. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain

by culi 3y ago

xeromal 3y ago

Thanks for this. Kind of happy my state of GA has none!

radlad 3y ago
It's not clear to me where this data comes from - do spots that are unmarked have none, or are they unmeasured?
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  The data says it comes from public water systems. The EPA requires testing and reporting of water supplies for lots of things. That being said, if you run your own private well, you’re not subject to this.
hindsightbias 3y ago
https://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/35/7/4009 https://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/35/7/4009 http://www.l-a-k-e.org/blog/2013/10/csx-groundwater-contamination-in-waycross.html http://www.l-a-k-e.org/blog/2013/10/csx-groundwater-contamin...

uoaei 3y ago

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/toxic-chemical-found-oakland-mcclymonds-high-school-campus-closed/ https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/toxic-chemical-fou... > The Oakland Unified School district announced the temporary closure of the McClymonds to test for the chemical tricloroethylene (TCE), which was found in groundwater under the campus. > "This is West Oakland and so there is a history of environmental injustice, of racial injustice that happens in this community. So these are places where there are leaks, there are dumps, there are things like that that are not healthy for our community," said Jumoke Hinton Hodge, Oakland Board of Education District 3 Director. > McClymonds has recently seen a handful of students and former students develop cancer, including the high-profile cases Darryl Aikens, a McClymonds football player who died of leukemia a month after graduating in 2017, as well as 2018 graduate Ramone Sanders, who died of cancer last fall. Sanders was playing football at Laney College when he broke his leg and it was discovered he had bone cancer that spread to his lungs.

dekhn 3y ago
Cancer has a fairly high incident rate in the general public, so anecdotes about people getting cancer due to industrial solvents is often suspect. Most observations can be explained by a combination of base rates, and social determinants of health.
- culi 3y ago
  The link between TCE and kidney cancer has already been very well established though. The Parkison's is just a cherry on top. If we know this place is contaminated, then we know there's increased risk of cancer. Full stop
- uoaei 3y ago
  Two extremely athletic high-school-age people die within two years of each other of mysterious cancers, with an obvious presence of cancer-causing chemicals, and you want to pretend that cancer statistics that are heavily weighted toward the older and more obese somehow have any relevance here? Honestly I am quite disgusted at this take. How many readers want to bet this take is informed by more than a little implicit racial bias, these being Black men at a primarily Black high school in a primarily Black neighborhood?
  - dekhn 3y ago
    Well, I was trained as a scientist and medical researcher and did my phd thesis on cancer drugs. One thing you learn is that many people see patterns in cancer that are better explained by random numbers. See this doc, including the section "Some important points to consider". https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/understanding-cancer-risk/cancer-clusters.html https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/understanding-... You can be disgusted all you want but I think you're making an error.

jpmattia 3y ago

> This map (from 2015) shows sites with the most TCE groundwater contamination. But note there was more than TCE at those superfund sites.

athoun 3y ago

This is incorrect, or misleading at best. The map that you linked contains data about TCE levels in public water systems. It does not imply anything about the contamination of the groundwater supply which exists below many homes and workplaces in throughout the Bay Area. Contaminated soil and groundwater allows VOCs, such as TCE, to enter homes via a process called "vapor intrusion" and which can lead to negative health outcomes for the inhabitants even without ever drinking the groundwater [1]. The vast majority of the Bay Area population gets its water either from the Hetch Hetchy (SF, South Bay, Peninsula) or the Mokelumne River watershed (East Bay). This is surface water that is mostly clear of VOCs which is why nothing shows up on the map for the Bay Area that you shared. For a more accurate representation of the state of the groundwater in the Bay Area, see this map of chemical plumes (hint they're everywhere) [2]. [1] https://www.epa.gov/vaporintrusion/what-vapor-intrusion https://www.epa.gov/vaporintrusion/what-vapor-intrusion [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20141120123953/http://www.nbcbayarea.com/brchannel/Map-The-Chemical-Legacy-of-Silicon-Valley-258950021.html https://web.archive.org/web/20141120123953/http://www.nbcbay...

culi 3y ago
Fascinating. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain