4 ms·

Man, how much fun was it when it was just html, perl, or php and a db or txt file. It’s all a nightmare now… all the abstractions are lovely and all, but, have

by medion 3y ago

Man, how much fun was it when it was just html, perl, or php and a db or txt file. It’s all a nightmare now… all the abstractions are lovely and all, but, have they really really improved anything that much? I’d take late 90s internet over todays version anytime!

dewey 3y ago
What's stopping you from doing these things? You can still write a php file and upload it to any hoster and it'll work.
- shanebellone 3y ago
  "What's stopping you from doing these things?" Exactly this! My personal website is pure html and css on a custom backend. I do not find the combination lacking.
  - pprotas 3y ago
    https://shanebellone.com https://shanebellone.com this one?
- medion 3y ago
  It’s a cultural thing, I don’t mean it literally. The web is cooked now, I have nothing to do with it except some comments on HN. I now work in arts and crafts and have all but rejected technology, I am glad I was there for the golden era!
- 0xblinq 3y ago
  Usually the only thing stopping people to just use a simple, proven tools is other developers looking down at you because you're not using the latest shiny thing.
  - seirl 3y ago
    PHP is only "simple" and "proven" in that it has proven countless times that it is simply terrible at everything.
    - dewey 3y ago
      It's not terrible at making it easy to find good people working on it and making money.
    - DamnInteresting 3y ago
      And yet somehow it handily powers over 75% of websites today.[1] [1]: https://w3techs.com/technologies/history_overview/programming_language/ms/y https://w3techs.com/technologies/history_overview/programmin...
    - mejutoco 3y ago
      I am not a big fan of PHP, but I remember generating CSS with it. Everybody found that _completely unacceptable_. Now most tools generate CSS in JS and mix structure and styling, and behaviour (using components). Fashion definitely has a strong influence on devs.
    - 0xblinq 3y ago
      The worst developers (as in bad practices, poor code quality, communication problems, zero care for product and just focus on tech, and extreme over or under engineering solutions) that I've found in my 20 year career also happened to be the ones blaming their tools instead of looking at their own practices, skills and beliefs. Not saying this is the case because I don't know you, but that's been the common theme for a long time. It's like hearing a carpenter complaining their hammer is just not good and nobody should use hammers and they should instead use a screwdriver because everyone knows how bad and outdated hammers are.
camillomiller 3y ago
I make relevant figures by providing clients with just that as a solo dev. My favorite story is the client that came to me after a superstar dev made them a one pager with Vue, Atomic design and so on. Name a framework buzzword, and that onepager had it. The client was desperate because the superstar Dev billed them 15k and then disappeared because his pre-booked hours where depleted and he didn't have any more capacity. I rewrote the entire site in HTML + CSS + Javascript (all static) in 3 days in order to be live. Then I just turned everything into a simple custom Wordpress Theme so that they could change this or that image and text in a backend they knew. Charged the client 5k (cheap for them, fair for me for a 4-day max project) and they were happy and thankful beyond any possible imagination. I am not a superstar dev, I don't know all the frameworks, but I know how to structure content thanks to my larger professional background in media. I strongly believe that interpreting and guiding a client's wishes and goals is more important than what you build with. If anything, "latest and shiniest" or "exaggerated abstraction" is almost never good for mid-size business with regular needs. That's a massive market with a lot of value to go around.
- bhu1st 3y ago
  I am content with silimar projects and happy clients.
recursivedoubts 3y ago
the dream of the 90's is alive at big sky software: https://htmx.org https://htmx.org

by medion 3y ago

dewey 3y ago

What's stopping you from doing these things? You can still write a php file and upload it to any hoster and it'll work.

shanebellone 3y ago
"What's stopping you from doing these things?" Exactly this! My personal website is pure html and css on a custom backend. I do not find the combination lacking.
- pprotas 3y ago
  https://shanebellone.com https://shanebellone.com this one?
medion 3y ago
It’s a cultural thing, I don’t mean it literally. The web is cooked now, I have nothing to do with it except some comments on HN. I now work in arts and crafts and have all but rejected technology, I am glad I was there for the golden era!
0xblinq 3y ago
Usually the only thing stopping people to just use a simple, proven tools is other developers looking down at you because you're not using the latest shiny thing.
- seirl 3y ago
  PHP is only "simple" and "proven" in that it has proven countless times that it is simply terrible at everything.
  - dewey 3y ago
    It's not terrible at making it easy to find good people working on it and making money.
  - DamnInteresting 3y ago
    And yet somehow it handily powers over 75% of websites today.[1] [1]: https://w3techs.com/technologies/history_overview/programming_language/ms/y https://w3techs.com/technologies/history_overview/programmin...
  - mejutoco 3y ago
    I am not a big fan of PHP, but I remember generating CSS with it. Everybody found that _completely unacceptable_. Now most tools generate CSS in JS and mix structure and styling, and behaviour (using components). Fashion definitely has a strong influence on devs.
  - 0xblinq 3y ago
    The worst developers (as in bad practices, poor code quality, communication problems, zero care for product and just focus on tech, and extreme over or under engineering solutions) that I've found in my 20 year career also happened to be the ones blaming their tools instead of looking at their own practices, skills and beliefs. Not saying this is the case because I don't know you, but that's been the common theme for a long time. It's like hearing a carpenter complaining their hammer is just not good and nobody should use hammers and they should instead use a screwdriver because everyone knows how bad and outdated hammers are.

camillomiller 3y ago

I make relevant figures by providing clients with just that as a solo dev. My favorite story is the client that came to me after a superstar dev made them a one pager with Vue, Atomic design and so on. Name a framework buzzword, and that onepager had it. The client was desperate because the superstar Dev billed them 15k and then disappeared because his pre-booked hours where depleted and he didn't have any more capacity. I rewrote the entire site in HTML + CSS + Javascript (all static) in 3 days in order to be live. Then I just turned everything into a simple custom Wordpress Theme so that they could change this or that image and text in a backend they knew. Charged the client 5k (cheap for them, fair for me for a 4-day max project) and they were happy and thankful beyond any possible imagination. I am not a superstar dev, I don't know all the frameworks, but I know how to structure content thanks to my larger professional background in media. I strongly believe that interpreting and guiding a client's wishes and goals is more important than what you build with. If anything, "latest and shiniest" or "exaggerated abstraction" is almost never good for mid-size business with regular needs. That's a massive market with a lot of value to go around.

bhu1st 3y ago
I am content with silimar projects and happy clients.

recursivedoubts 3y ago

the dream of the 90's is alive at big sky software: https://htmx.org https://htmx.org