4 ms·

And I guess you yourself are the exception in that you are entitled to living in a tourist-free city, and all the tourist-dependent businesses in your area and

And I guess you yourself are the exception in that you are entitled to living in a tourist-free city, and all the tourist-dependent businesses in your area and all the tourists that want to visit can go to hell? Maybe we should just build enough housing for everyone.

dorchadas 3y ago
It has nothing to do with tourists visiting. It's tourists taking up the local housing. Tourists are planned into any good urban planning -- but they're not expected to stay in the residential areas, especially while the local residents are getting hurt because of it. The issue isn't tourists, it's where they're staying. Tourists are welcome, they're not entitled to live like 'locals' at the local's expense. Stay in a hotel. > Maybe we should just build enough housing for everyone. Except that won't ever be enough because more and more will just come. And there's already even a glut on AirBnB for tourists, so none of that housing will go the locals. Building isn't the only solution.
- FredPret 3y ago
  That's fair. From a tourist's point of view, hotels suck, and houses are much better. Home owners also have the right to rent out their houses, as limited by the zoning. I maintain that the issue can be fixed with more development - build a new tourist zone with hotels that appeal, or AirBnB friendly zoning, or something like that. And for locals, more housing = more options. The local housing can be built outside tourist zones if it has to. The fact is we have a growing population, a growing global economy, tons of people exiting poverty and entering the global middle class and travelling. This will all accelerate for hundreds of years to come.
  - soco 3y ago
    Hotels suck only to those buying into the relatively recent religion "live like locals" and they are not that many percentage-wise. Most of the AirBnB customers go there hoping for lower prices and that's all there is. Tax the hosts like the hotels are taxed, make them offer the same services the hotels are offering, and I'm sure the main problem will be solved. I say only the main problem because Venice will be Venice and the increase in tourists numbers will be felt either way, so at some point the bigger issue will need to be discussed: should we limit the number of tourists? Sell them time schedule tickets or something? Venice has this discussion already.
    - leoedin 3y ago
      Hotels suck for other reasons. If you're travelling as a group you often don't want to have separate hotel rooms with no shared space. If you're travelling as a family you might have kids that need to go to bed before you. There's much more of a trend to build serviced apartments now - which solve most of those issues.
      - carlosjobim 3y ago
        Many (most?) hotels offer these kind of apartments as well.
    - FredPret 3y ago
      I just need a kitchen man
      - troyvit 3y ago
        Exactly. I rent houses and apartments because they have kitchens to cook in, a patio to hang laundry on or relax on, a separate bedroom for the kids, they allow dogs, and it's the same price as a hotel. If hotels start sucking less they can take the business back.
        Gud 3y ago
        Why is this getting down voted? These are the same reasons I rent apartments.
- pjc50 3y ago
  > Tourists are welcome, they're not entitled to live like 'locals' at the local's expense. Stay in a hotel. I feel this is an artificial distinction. It's not really the type of building that's involved. People tend to pick whichever of AirBnB or hotel is the most economical for their stay. It's the massive conversion of property from residential to "hotel" by the (often local!) owners that's the problem.
Symbiote 3y ago
Airbnb-free is not tourist free, there are hotels, apartment hotels, hostels, resorts, campsites etc.
andrewstuart 3y ago
Tourists can use hotels.
leoedin 3y ago
I think the resentment comes from the fact that, for many large cities, the tourism aspect is a very small part of the city. Take for example the city I grew up in - Edinburgh. Tourism contributes £1.3bn to the cities economy, but the city has a GDP of £26bn. So tourism is 5% of GDP, yet it has a completely disproportionate impact on the city centre. If you play "count the lockboxes" in the centre you realise almost every flat in the centre is an AirBnB. Those flats take in 4x what a normal rented flat will make, so of course there's a strong incentive for landlords to rent on AirBnB. Right now the city is going through a huge housing shortage - people are having to defer degree courses or live outside the city because they literally can't find anywhere to rent. Of course, tourists aren't the only cause of this. There's a huge intergenerational issue (I know countless people in their 60s living in very large houses), and the city has historically been very conservative about building new houses to match population growth. Ultimately the city is owned and run mostly by the people who live there. Most of them have no choice about the level of tourism, and it's pretty reasonable to want to have a discussion about whether you really want to have your city turned into a theme park.
- sampo 3y ago
  > the city has historically been very conservative about building new houses to match population growth. This is the main problem. Solution is simple: Allow more new construction, lots of it. Local people have voted against their own long term interests, if they have voted for politicians who have opposed new construction. It is easy to succumb to short term selfishness: "I already have a home, so I don't want any new construction near me. I oppose building new homes." But in time, every one of us will need to move to a new home. Then you will start to wish that if you had supported building new homes, it would be easier for you, too, to find a new home.
  - FredPret 3y ago
    When the younger generation takes over, I predict a massive wave of construction globally. Most millennials have had it up to here both with high rent and the anti-development I've-already-got-my-own-house crowd that caused it.
surgical_fire 3y ago
> tourists that want to visit can go to hell? Hotels and hostels are a thing, you know?
soco 3y ago
If there only was some type of accommodation offering rooms to tourists right there where they want to go but respecting the local laws and regulations... maybe we could call them "hotels" or something.
- bombcar 3y ago
  There is (was?) a missing middle that Airbnb was nice for - “family” - but once you start looking into it you realize that cities do quite a bunch of thought into hotel location and connecting them to transport, in ways that quieter residences aren’t built for.

dorchadas 3y ago

It has nothing to do with tourists visiting. It's tourists taking up the local housing. Tourists are planned into any good urban planning -- but they're not expected to stay in the residential areas, especially while the local residents are getting hurt because of it. The issue isn't tourists, it's where they're staying. Tourists are welcome, they're not entitled to live like 'locals' at the local's expense. Stay in a hotel. > Maybe we should just build enough housing for everyone. Except that won't ever be enough because more and more will just come. And there's already even a glut on AirBnB for tourists, so none of that housing will go the locals. Building isn't the only solution.

FredPret 3y ago
That's fair. From a tourist's point of view, hotels suck, and houses are much better. Home owners also have the right to rent out their houses, as limited by the zoning. I maintain that the issue can be fixed with more development - build a new tourist zone with hotels that appeal, or AirBnB friendly zoning, or something like that. And for locals, more housing = more options. The local housing can be built outside tourist zones if it has to. The fact is we have a growing population, a growing global economy, tons of people exiting poverty and entering the global middle class and travelling. This will all accelerate for hundreds of years to come.
- soco 3y ago
  Hotels suck only to those buying into the relatively recent religion "live like locals" and they are not that many percentage-wise. Most of the AirBnB customers go there hoping for lower prices and that's all there is. Tax the hosts like the hotels are taxed, make them offer the same services the hotels are offering, and I'm sure the main problem will be solved. I say only the main problem because Venice will be Venice and the increase in tourists numbers will be felt either way, so at some point the bigger issue will need to be discussed: should we limit the number of tourists? Sell them time schedule tickets or something? Venice has this discussion already.
  - leoedin 3y ago
    Hotels suck for other reasons. If you're travelling as a group you often don't want to have separate hotel rooms with no shared space. If you're travelling as a family you might have kids that need to go to bed before you. There's much more of a trend to build serviced apartments now - which solve most of those issues.
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      Many (most?) hotels offer these kind of apartments as well.
  - FredPret 3y ago
    I just need a kitchen man
    - troyvit 3y ago
      Exactly. I rent houses and apartments because they have kitchens to cook in, a patio to hang laundry on or relax on, a separate bedroom for the kids, they allow dogs, and it's the same price as a hotel. If hotels start sucking less they can take the business back.
      - Gud 3y ago
        Why is this getting down voted? These are the same reasons I rent apartments.
pjc50 3y ago
> Tourists are welcome, they're not entitled to live like 'locals' at the local's expense. Stay in a hotel. I feel this is an artificial distinction. It's not really the type of building that's involved. People tend to pick whichever of AirBnB or hotel is the most economical for their stay. It's the massive conversion of property from residential to "hotel" by the (often local!) owners that's the problem.

Symbiote 3y ago

Airbnb-free is not tourist free, there are hotels, apartment hotels, hostels, resorts, campsites etc.

andrewstuart 3y ago

Tourists can use hotels.

leoedin 3y ago

I think the resentment comes from the fact that, for many large cities, the tourism aspect is a very small part of the city. Take for example the city I grew up in - Edinburgh. Tourism contributes £1.3bn to the cities economy, but the city has a GDP of £26bn. So tourism is 5% of GDP, yet it has a completely disproportionate impact on the city centre. If you play "count the lockboxes" in the centre you realise almost every flat in the centre is an AirBnB. Those flats take in 4x what a normal rented flat will make, so of course there's a strong incentive for landlords to rent on AirBnB. Right now the city is going through a huge housing shortage - people are having to defer degree courses or live outside the city because they literally can't find anywhere to rent. Of course, tourists aren't the only cause of this. There's a huge intergenerational issue (I know countless people in their 60s living in very large houses), and the city has historically been very conservative about building new houses to match population growth. Ultimately the city is owned and run mostly by the people who live there. Most of them have no choice about the level of tourism, and it's pretty reasonable to want to have a discussion about whether you really want to have your city turned into a theme park.

sampo 3y ago
> the city has historically been very conservative about building new houses to match population growth. This is the main problem. Solution is simple: Allow more new construction, lots of it. Local people have voted against their own long term interests, if they have voted for politicians who have opposed new construction. It is easy to succumb to short term selfishness: "I already have a home, so I don't want any new construction near me. I oppose building new homes." But in time, every one of us will need to move to a new home. Then you will start to wish that if you had supported building new homes, it would be easier for you, too, to find a new home.
- FredPret 3y ago
  When the younger generation takes over, I predict a massive wave of construction globally. Most millennials have had it up to here both with high rent and the anti-development I've-already-got-my-own-house crowd that caused it.

surgical_fire 3y ago

> tourists that want to visit can go to hell? Hotels and hostels are a thing, you know?

soco 3y ago

If there only was some type of accommodation offering rooms to tourists right there where they want to go but respecting the local laws and regulations... maybe we could call them "hotels" or something.

bombcar 3y ago
There is (was?) a missing middle that Airbnb was nice for - “family” - but once you start looking into it you realize that cities do quite a bunch of thought into hotel location and connecting them to transport, in ways that quieter residences aren’t built for.