9 ms·
A weed is swallowing the Sonoran Desert
- aezart 3y agoOh no, another one? We already have a buffelgrass problem.
- cwkoss 3y agoare there any organic chemistry uses for the constituents of this weed? Looks like the essential oil is ~30% camphor. Could it become an industrial precursor for sunscreen?
- andrewmcwatters 3y agoNow you're talking! Lemonade.
- danw1979 3y agoCamphor Lemonade… chewy, the way grandma used to make it.
- csb6 3y agoThese completely dominate the land along I-17 between Flagstaff and Phoenix. Amazing how rapidly they appeared.
- Nydhal 3y agoThey are occupying the space left behind by human activity. Chemicals will only create more resistant strains just like it did with Amaranth. The reason these plants are successful is the horrendous landscaping traditions especially in new developments. The use of chemicals only reinforces these plants. Basically what's happening is these strains are put under so much pressure in the urban environment that they becomes "super-weeds" and then invade the rest of the landscape. It might be too late to do anything about it now.
- ehvatum 3y agoI don’t think stinknet requires cleared land. Vegetation in the Arizona desert doesn’t form an unbroken canopy. Water is the limiting factor, and stinknet is apparently more efficient than any native plant at immediately converting water into explosive growth and immensely prodigious seed production. It may well be that the natural course for stinknet is to dominate all other desert vegetation to such an extent that it forms a monoculture that fails to maintain ground nutrients and creates evolutionary pressure toward symbiosis with native plants. But it could take a hundred thousand years for Arizona stinknet to become a good citizen.
- bpodgursky 3y agoMore likely some grazing animal figures out how to digest it first.
- isaacharper 3y agoIt does not require cleared land. It will grow under other bushes and trees and pop up right in the middle
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dylan604 3y ago"“I don't believe that we'll be able to remove stinknet just by pulling it. We're going to need some chemical methods as well.” —Samuel Shaw, editorial intern" i'm confused by this credit to the comment. "Samuel Shaw is an editorial intern for High Country News based in the Colorado Front Range." is this really a job title where someone can just add their own opinions? the strong advice of needing chemicals is not advice i feel comfortable on following from an intern. this comment really took the whole article down in credibility in my opinion (since they seem so open to expressing opinions).
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- totoglazer 3y agoIt’s not the best written or typeset. However I think that’s a quote from Armstrong? > Armstrong, however, said that Maricopa County will need to resort to herbicides, which may pose their own risks. “I don't believe that we'll be able to remove stinknet just by pulling it. We're going to need some chemical methods as well.”
- teruakohatu 3y agoIt is an unusual comment when there are other methods for removing invasive pests other than pulling them out. When they work Biological pest control methods can be extremely effective and work quickly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_pest_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_pest_control While some forms of bio control require extensive research programs to prove safety, others can be as simple as planting native species that complete with the weed. Here in New Zealand, gorse is a horrible, also yellow, woody shrub weed that is near impossible to remove with chemicals or by pulling it out (it just grows back). A solution was found simply to plant native trees under the gorse. The gorse ends up sheltering the native tree and once the native grows up it shades the gorse and the gorse dies off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorse_in_New_Zealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorse_in_New_Zealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_control_of_gorse_in_New_Zealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_control_of_gorse_in... A lot of bio control research is done in New Zealand to help pacific islands deal with invasive species. The tropical climates mean that when invasive weeds arrive, they spread like crazy disrupting the fragile ecosystems.
- jakear 3y agoWorth noting a “weed” is just any plant-based life form the man doesn’t like, for whatever reason. Commoners are told a distinction between native and invasive life, but this is a facade. It is not uncommon for native species, such as the Western Juniper, to be classified as “weeds” and subject to expensive removal efforts, despite being a fully natural part of the environment.
- ethanbond 3y agoThere are definitely some species that are actually not native to an area and are brought by human activity alone. Granted humans (and all our creations) are also natural, but the challenge is that we’re good at creating extreme change over very short timeframes.
- jakear 3y agoAll true, but who is to say that the impacts of human-accelerated stochastic gradient descent are necessarily evil?
- BuyMyBitcoins 3y agoIsn’t this just an argument of nihilism? If it doesn’t matter because native/weed is an artificial distinction, or because it is by definition insignificant on a geologic timescale, then why get upset at people trying to change or reverse “the gradient” in any way?
- jakear 3y agoI’m not upset at anyone, though people seem upset at me for pointing out the futility. I suppose the resources could be better spent doing something else, though I couldn’t tell you what that’d be.
- BuyMyBitcoins 3y agoAll I’ll say is that while I am not a biologist or an ecologist, I do know several who work on conservation projects and efforts to counteract invasive species. This story shares so many similarities with other cases of an introduced species radically changing the regions ecology and that in and of itself is incredibly alarming to them. Yes, at the end of the day the Earth doesn’t care and life will go on. But trying to maintain some semblance of a minimally invaded ecosystem is valuable to these folks and I greatly respect their efforts.
- andrewmcwatters 3y agoOh! That's Stinknet? OK. Well, yeah. It's everywhere in Arizona. There were recently some winds and an uptick in weed growth in just about every neighborhood in the Phoenix metro from what I saw. As csb6 mentioned, it's everywhere. I'm not sure people are really paying that much attention though. Weeds are weeds. You get rid of them. They happen. Personally, I think it's a quite attractive weed. I don't want it in my yard, and I've gotten rid of it a few times now, but I don't mind it. It's just a part of lawn maintenance, and there is a period of time where I enjoy the natural growth before a manicure. That being said, it has made some abandoned plots look like meadows now, in my opinion. I welcome the change.
- King-Aaron 3y ago> out-competing native plants with startling efficiency This is the issue however. When an invasive plant starts to take over, it can destroy entire ecosystems.
- andrewmcwatters 3y agoYeah, I guess that's a good point. I think the reality of the matter based on the spread that I've seen though is that land owners will have to adapt. It's just so tremendously prolific. You're not going to simply pull all of it, or glyphosate spray all of it. It's just not happening. You'd need an earth mover.
- B1FF_PSUVM 3y agoDavid Gerrold started an interesting series of SF books - War Against the Chtorr - with a similar premise, but the invasive species were a deliberate attack by aliens. "Terraformation", but the other way around. Unfortunately the series went off the rails and is unfinished after a few decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_Against_the_Chtorr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_Against_the_Chtorr
- jawilson2 3y agoOne of my favorite series in the 90s in high school! I had the same mental connection you did. Gerrold also wrote the "Trouble With Tribbles" episode of the original Star Trek, which is similar to the Chtorr books. From what I understand, Gerrold had a son with severe learning disabilities and was unable to finish it. Which sucks, but I also understand. ...and reading that wiki link, I see 1 or 2 books are in the works, though no updates since 2017 or so. I'll put this fact in my GRRM bin for now.
- leke 3y agoIs it just me or does it seem wrong that people are against this plant that is trying to green a desert?
- keyle 3y agoIf you read the article it mentions that this weed has a tendency to kill the native plants. So yes, in this case, it's harmful.
- jazzyjackson 3y agoharmful to the extant plants. perhaps preparing the ground for an ecosystem-to-come.
- bell-cot 3y agoAll the other native species (insects, birds, etc.), which are dependent upon the native plants for food & shelter, also tend to die off. Overall, it's about as good as a (Star Trek reference) Cardassian occupation. And invasive species are not intelligent, to set up a decent "New Order" in any sort of reasonable or tolerable time frame.
- singularity2001 3y agoit's not just you, it always triggers me when repopulating species are called "pests" by the most invasive species on earth (humans).
- pookah 3y agoHumans have done more for conservation and "repopulating" than you could ever imagine. Soil, sea-life, species...List goes on and on.
- Brometheus 3y agoBrought to you by The Dinosaur Transitional Integration Authority
- resolutebat 3y agoContinuing with the eating metaphor, here's a good story a few days ago about kudzu, a notorious weed that in the end failed to swallow the South. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35934578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35934578 I suspect we may well see something similar here: stinknet is going gangbusters right now because it's been wet and it doesn't have local enemies yet. The first is guaranteed to change, and the second is very likely to.
- DayDollar 3y agoBeing a human deterrent is selected for. 100 years from now, every wild plant is ambrosia.
- b800h 3y agoWhat did the desert look like before this plant arrived? Because I'd struggle to call it a desert from the look of it now. Is it not a good thing?
- AbsoluteCabbage 3y agoI have found the name for the AI that takes down chatGPT. StinxNet
- anjel 3y agohttps://www.asme.org/topics-resources/content/whacking-weeds-with-lasers https://www.asme.org/topics-resources/content/whacking-weeds...
- cmpb 3y ago>We removed 1.5 million plants at 21 events in seven state parks this year. I have been involved in Ardisia and Tallow removal efforts here in the US south. When the infestation is this bad, you're not going to solve it with mechanical methods, no matter how hard you try and how many people you have doing it. Chemicals can definitely help, but they often have unexpected detrimental side effects to other native plants and animals (though sometimes they have unexpected beneficial effects on other native plants - I've seen rare prairie natives pop up in Louisiana after Triclopyr killed off overcrowded baccaris under power lines). I wonder, could we develop a "gene drive" for plants?
- obblekk 3y agoConservation of nature is something I care a lot about. But isn’t this the natural process playing out? A plant is evolutionarily fit to survive this desert. It is introduced randomly by an animal. It prospers and colonized the otherwise inhabitable area. In the process, moisture is retained in soil (sand), nitrogen fixing bacteria enter, and the next most fit species also is able to enter. This repeats a few thousand times and the desert starts to bloom. At what point is conservation of the environmental process the better option compared to conservation of the environment in a human powered stasis?
- jdiez17 3y agoIt seems people are "for" conservation of nature, only insofar as it fits their aesthetic preferences.
- lbriner 3y agoThat's what I was just thinking, same as people complaining in Scotland about heather and bracken. If you don't do anything proactive to plant native spieces and help them establish then you have to let nature do it however it wants to and it won't always look nice. You also have to be much more strict about grazing. The problem with certain parts of the world is that you can sell all the land off to whomever and they can do whatever they want with it. 2M acres of grassland all eaten bare by sheep or cows? Yeah, no problem mate.
- megalord 3y agoI wonder if introduction of some goats there would change something
- isaacharper 3y agoThe Mountain Lions agree with you
- myshpa 3y agoI'm aware of the negative impacts, but it could have some positive effects due to: - improvement of barren soil with organic matter - soil coverage and microclimate regulation - stabilization and erosion prevention - facilitation of other plant species' establishment One could even speculate that this infestation resembles a form of ecological succession.
- elevation 3y agoCame here to say this. Yes it's startling how fast this chamomile spreads, and we ought to preserve the native brittlebrush. But it's worth considering the effects of 50 years of ground cover, 50 years of pollinators and their predators, 50 years of accumulated organic detritus, 50 years of improved rainwater retention, 50 years of migratory birds bringing seeds in their droppings to a rejuvenated soil substrate. Could any of these things improve local ecology? I'd imagine that 50 years and thousands of square miles with a radically different emissivity coefficient could even altar weather patterns and change annual rainfall totals. Some of these effects would be straightforward to model. Might we see water table restoration leading to year-round springs instead of annual floods? Could we accelerate any of these effects?
- kylewatson 3y agobrittlebrush and globemallow are beautiful native plants. Same with the "weed" version of Arizona sunflowers. The 'weed' version of dandylion is pretty gross, but even that I'll sometimes just replant to the desert near me. But these little yellow ball things are pretty obnoxious. They're easy to identify and pull early though. They're pretty so people are defending them, but I'd rather have native flowers for the native butterflies, bees and humming birds. Of the approximately 5,000 different species of bees in the United States, around 1,300 live in Arizona, meaning Arizona contains the most diversity of bees in the country, and perhaps the world. People in these comments think sahara when they think desert. Truth is Arizona is more diverse than most states with their same 5 trees everyone else has and their stupid grass everyone else has. As for this plant doing anything good, I appreciate your optimism, but I don't think it lives through the summer so it's just a wham bam spread then catch on fire disaster. If we had more rain maybe it would be not so bad. But when it dries out so much and then this is laying around waiting to burn, it's bad news. It seems that you couldn't do a better job burning the desert down if you wanted to. This literally puts tinder all over the place. You can't rival that even with blowtorches and napalm. You could firebomb the desert and in the absence of this stuff, those fires would burn out in between sections of growth. But with this stuff, one cigarette or lightning strike can take out hundreds of acres.
- isaacharper 3y agoI have worked on a conservation project that was trialing out some pesticides for use on stinknet. Some points people are missing is that 1. the Sonoran desert is not a barren ecosystem. It is the most biodiverse desert in the world it does not need to have its soil “fixed” it is doing fine. 2. the actual problem with this plant is how fast it grows. Almost all ecosystems are subject to wildfire at some point and it matters how frequently these wildfires hit. The Sonoran desert is not build for frequent and intense fires and with stinknet growing and dying and building up lots of flammable material the fires are happening much more frequently and are much hotter. This is killing native animals and cactuses that are not adapted to these frequent fires. The desert is not dead.
- californiadreem 3y agoUgh, let's unpack this. Trying to maintain a stable ecology is nativist. Those seeds are just looking for a better home with more biological opportunity. All the lifeforms currently in the Sonoran desert blew in, too. And destroyed all the First Species, I might add. The replacement of native species by globe chamomile (don't use st*nknet--it's a slur) is just a conspiracy theory by failing plant hegemons to maintain their own ecological privilege. Future globe chamomile sub-species might be the next Willow or Redwood. Plant diversity is our strength. And let's be clear. There's no proven relationship between wildfires and globe chamomile. All evidence comes from systemically nativist orgs like the National Park Service and Ivy-League ecology departments. And even if globe chamomile did cause wildfires, that's just their biological role and it enriches the soil and we should applaud it. They capture sunlight where other plants don't. What else is going to build nutrient density? Creosote? It's so NIMBY that it creates dead zones around itself by stealing all the water for itself. It's not globe chamomile's fault that creosote and pinyon can't seed enough to compete. Learn to grow. It's 2023. Next, you'll be claiming the arrival of eucalyptus in the 19th century in California was an ecological mistake. I've been all around the Bay Area and NorCal and never got hit by an exploding tree. It's a myth and a stereotype. And even if they did, it would purely be because of climactic factors. Y'all need to adapt. We live in a Global Ecology. Ecologies are biological constructs that change over time. What used to be considered "invasive species" (although we strongly prefer the term "novel trophic worker" to avoid using speciestic and nativist terminology) are now the backbones of rich and diverse biomes in not only California but all over North America. In fact, novel trophic workers and their progeny are on track to be the majority of plant species in North America. What's wrong with novel trophic workers becoming the dominant natives? Are ecological niches treated poorly, or something?