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How Tokyo became an anti-car paradise

• CHB0403085482 3y ago
  >There is simply no traffic noise. No hooting, no engine noise, not even much of the noise of cars accelerating on tarmac. Cities aren't noisy; ICE cars are noisy.
  • hammyhavoc 3y ago
    Sirens. Construction. Shouting. Gunfire. Music. Conversation. Rolling carts of various kinds. Tire noise. Horns. Trains.
    • seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Tire noise is a big one, especially if you live near a freeway that isn’t recessed and sound fortified enough. I passed on a town home with a great view of Seattle because the noise over I5 was unbearable. Heck, I hear plenty of tire noise even way out in Ballard where we ultimately bought.
    • ChatGTP 3y ago
      Gunfire ?
      • hammyhavoc 3y ago
        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-62303245 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-62303245
    • lm28469 3y ago
      None of these are as constant and widespread than vehicles noises.
    • prodent 3y ago
      One of these is not like the others.
  • calmaro34 3y ago
    EVs are as noisy as (most) ICE cars at speeds above 30-40 km/h (~20-25 mph) as at those speeds tyre noise becomes dominant: https://www.toi.no/getfile.php/1340825-1434373783/mmarkiv/Forside%202015/compett-foredrag/Lykke%20-Silent%20Urban%20Driving.pdf https://www.toi.no/getfile.php/1340825-1434373783/mmarkiv/Fo...
  • Prickle 3y ago
    What? ICE cars are noisy if you design them to be noisy. I remember Toyota's first or second hybrid car was almost completely silent. It caused other problems, primarily the issue that they could sneak up on unaware pedestrians like myself. Unless I am missing something. The only noisy cars I face these days are performance cars, some trucks, and that one ahole in a sports bike.
    • Fradow 3y ago
      Hybrid cars are not the same as ICE. In general, hybrids accelerate at low speed using only the electrical motor, which produce little noise. Only at higher speed (or when the battery is low I guess?) is the ICE started. Since at higher speed, tire and wind noise drown ICE noise, you don't hear them and they feel nearly as quiet as electric cars. ICE-only cars are definitely noisy. Though maybe you are used to that noise and it doesn't register (like a lot of people, me included), but they are definitely loud enough that a place without any car feels "quiet" (even if it's otherwise busy).
  • flohofwoe 3y ago
    Isn't it mainly tire- and wind-noise that dominates a car's sound emission? (unless it's a sports car where the engine noise is a 'design feature')
    • lm28469 3y ago
      Nah clearly not, I'm on the 7th floor of my building right now I can hear engines every few seconds, I can't hear tires/wind. Windows are closed
    • Fradow 3y ago
      At high speed, yes (somewhere above 30km/h to 50km/h IIRC). At low speed, for ICE cars, it's definitely the engine noise that dominates.
• renewiltord 3y ago
  It is actually quite a lovely place without the cars. Occasionally, you'll see a tiny one packed into a corner on a street. Very futuristic city and very natural to walk around and to take the trains and buses in. An example of the kind of city that mankind can build. Of course they have (what are to me) novel failure modes. During election season they have these vans that go around with loudspeakers loudly proclaiming this or that. Really awful stuff. You wouldn't believe how loud that stuff is. Goes right through the windows.
  • ChatGTP 3y ago
    Imo it’s the best city in the worlds hands down. I’ve been to a few but Tokyo is as good as it gets. It had everything, insanely good transport, safe, some of the best food in the world, beautiful weather most of the year except for rainy season, incredible art, great mix of old and new, some beautiful parks, great for riding bikes, little traffic, clean air. The only thing I’d say let’s it down and it does let it down a bit is the lack of greenery. I think it’s a known issue though. It’s honestly the best city I’ve ever visited and I’ve been to a few. New York is a close second for the history but it’s so dirty that it’s beyond charming.
    • user_named 3y ago
      Agree that Tokyo has a very high quality of life, provided that your living and work situation is also good.
    • bsaul 3y ago
      tokyo has no terrasse to have a coffee when it's sunny, and biking in tokyo looks a bit suicidal as i don't remember seeing a single biking lane in the streets (2018). From a european standpoint it makes it really hard to live.
      • Foreignborn 3y ago
        You should try it again, should you get the chance. I drink coffee on a terrace almost daily at my local place in shibuya. You can also nomikai outside at a ton of places. The version of outdoor seating is not the same as Europe but if your marker is enjoy your meal outside, you most definitely can. As for cycling, I can’t speak to it as much, but it seems like the cycling culture is much more casual. Tons of parents cycling their preschool children, people biking on sidewalks, etc. That said, my best mate is an avid cyclist and worked bike shops most his life. He exclusively cycles here and always points out the sheer number of hobby (expensive? custom?) bikes casually posted outside shops.
• CapricornNoble 3y ago
  I generally hold up Japanese cities as examples of ideal multi-mode transportation solutions. It's weird to me to call Tokyo ANTI-car though. The city has one of the most robust car cultures on the planet. And I wouldn't say the cars are "invariably tiny, quiet". I feel I see luxury sports cars and higher-spec German performance offerings (BMW M models, AMG Mercedes, etc.) in far greater rates than I see kei cars in Okinawa, for example. Most residential streets having little or no traffic is accurate, though. >>>Life expectancy overall is 84 years old, one of the highest levels of any city on the planet. A good part of this has to do with the lack of cars. Air pollution is considerably lower than in any other city of equivalent size anywhere in the world. This is a huge claim for which the otherwise-reasonably-sourced article doesn't cite a reference. >>>Even a well-maintained car can cost 100,000 yen to inspect (or around $850). Emphasis on can. I take my lightly-modified 2008 Evo through the inspection line myself and it typically costs me less than 50,000 yen. Double that is if you have a mechanic shop do it, AND there's stuff that needs to be fixed like replacing your brake pads. >>>To be allowed to purchase a car, you have to be able to prove that you have somewhere to park it. This approval is issued by the local police, and is known as a shakoshomeisho, or “garage certificate.” Without one, you cannot buy a car. Note: this isn't a nation-wide requirement, it's basically by city. Major urban areas have it. Often low-density rural areas do not. The lack of street parking is definitely accurate and a huge boon to the livability of Japanese city environments, agreed on that one. >>>wealthy friends of his owned a top-end BMW, which they replaced every few years, because they were car nuts. But because they did not have anywhere to park it near their home They are wealthy enough to replace their M cars frequently but somehow can't get a condo with parking, or a house with a garage? That's.....odd to me. I think this anecdote is quite an outlier. I like the overall observations about how to successfully build rail-centric development though, especially the point about rail companies building up the commercial/residential real estate immediately around their rail stations to drive profitability AND convenience for the population. I'm in favor of things that get "average commuters" off the streets, it makes driving a more enjoyable experience for the car aficionados too! And I'm okay paying a mild premium for car ownership to support all of that.
  • fomine3 3y ago
    For inspection cost, it includes vehicle weight tax and mandatory insurance cost.
• tkgally 3y ago
  I am a perhaps extreme example of what is described in the article. I grew up in Southern California, but I have lived in Tokyo and neighboring Yokohama since 1983. I can’t remember the last time I rode in a privately owned car in the Tokyo area. Fifteen years ago? Twenty years ago? I’m not sure. I think the last time I rode in a private car anywhere in Japan was in 2017, when I went to Hiroshima for work and my host picked me up at the station in his car. I do take taxis occasionally, but mostly I walk or take trains. My three-year-old grandson, who lives with me, has yet to ride in any privately owned car. He has probably never even seen a child’s carseat.
  • m348e912 3y ago
    Ok you are the best person to as a question that has lingered for some time. What do you do with your stuff when you are traveling around the city? I know it's frowned upon but there are still a lot of people who leave their shopping and personal items in a car instead of lugging it around to different places. Cars have become lockers or sorts. (with the inherent risk of them getting broken into)
    • Symbiote 3y ago
      I carry it with me, in some sort of bag -- a carrier bag from a shop, a backpack, occasionally a bicycle pannier bag. Parents with young children will stow some stuff in the tray under the pushchair. Some places have lockers, for example a concert hall or art gallery where they don't allow you to bring in various things. That does mean I avoid buying something heavy unless I'm on my way home. (I'm in Copenhagen, not Tokyo.)
    • tkgally 3y ago
      I take a medium-sized backpack with me when I go into town. I usually take a laptop and/or tablet, a bottle of water, and a few personal items, so there’s still space in it. Most things I’m likely to buy while I’m out—a magazine, a bento, etc.—fit into the bag with no problem. If I buy something bigger that’s not too heavy to carry, I’ll get it with a shopping bag with handles. Most people in Tokyo, I think, do something similar. If I buy something that’s too big or heavy to carry, I’ll have it delivered to my house a day or two later. All of the department stores, major electronic stores, etc. will deliver for their customers. If I need to leave something someplace and pick it up later, most train stations have coin lockers. Some of the larger stations, as well as department stores, have temporary storage services for luggage and the like. (I have had problems sometimes finding a locker or storage service when I needed one, though.) It’s not unusual to see people with wheeled suitcases on the streets and trains. Some of them are travelers, of course, but many of them are local people who have stuff that’s too heavy to carry. These methods don’t work for everyone, of course. People who have to carry around large things—repair people, musicians with large instruments, etc.—drive cars, as do people who live far from train stations and shopping areas. People without cars typically go shopping frequently and in small quantities. There are more than a dozen grocery and convenience stores within a ten-minute walk of my house, so shopping is not a problem for me. Most products are sold in small containers that are easy to carry. There are well-stocked convenience stores practically anywhere you go in Tokyo, so it’s easy to buy things when you need them. So I suppose the answer to your question is that because millions of people live their lives in the city without cars an infrastructure—lockers, delivery services, convenience stores, etc.—has arisen to support them.
• nessex 3y ago
  > Because there are so few of them. Most of the time you can walk in the middle of the street, so rare is the traffic This is a bit of a stretch. There are cars everywhere you go in Tokyo, it's pretty well set up for driving given the size and population. That said, I've lived here without a license for years, and rarely had the need to hop into any cars. Speed limits are generally low, and lights are everywhere, which often makes the train or sometimes even a bike a faster option than a car or a bus. It's only when you have multiple connections in your route or when you get well outside the city that you start to see consistent benefit from a car. One reason it's so easy to get by without a car in most of Tokyo is that the shops and attractions are distributed well. Zoning means there are tiny shops everywhere, and the bigger shops are present at many of the train stations in the city. You are pretty much always within walking distance of everything essential. One more reason is that the postal system is excellent. If you order something from Amazon, you'll receive it about 24 hours later in most parts of Tokyo. Who needs a car when you pick up everything essential on a 10 minute walk from your house, and everything you want will be at your door tomorrow?
  • MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Perhaps to put it in NA terms, the 'downtown core' of Tokyo is absolutely enormous, but in the suburbs and exurbs you likely still need a car to live a convenient life, commute to a workplace somewhere else in the suburbs/exurbs, etc.
    • presentation 3y ago
      Not really though. Plenty of people live in the burbs, take the bus or bike to a station and then express lines can whisk you downtown in no time. I guess it depends what you mean by the suburbs, but a home I lived in literally had a farm next to it and I still didn’t need a car there. Was 15 minutes by bus or 10 mins by bike to the nearest station, and then 20km from there to central Tokyo which took 20 mins on the train. Car would mostly be an optimization, or for some, a hobby.
      • MichaelZuo 3y ago
• decafninja 3y ago
  Ultraclean, ultrareliable, ultrasafe transit. Tokyo (and many other cities, particularly in Asia) have all three. It’s unlikely US cities can achieve all three. Reliability might be achievable. Cleanliness and safety I have my doubts. Especially because many of the people most in favor of increasing transit and decreasing cars are the same who prevent cleanliness and safety from happening.
  • momdad420 3y ago
    [dead]
• Fradow 3y ago
  Buried in the middle of the article (I knew it already, but you have to hunt for it): > To be allowed to purchase a car, you have to be able to prove that you have somewhere to park it. That's the main reason IMO. If you drastically limit the number of car, of course you don't need nearly as much curb-side parking, and can have much more real estate available for productive use.
• keiranlovett 3y ago
  I spent half my life in Australia where Cars were a requirement for anything, and half my life in Hong Kong, another Asian city where Cars were basically a luxury. I very recently moved to North America and was really taken by surprise in a lot of regards with care culture, primarily how "pedestrian hostile" the city is as a whole. Without a car you're really limited in where you can go and what you can do. In Hong Kong I felt a lot of freedom of movement, and even casual visits back to Australia the public transport is both safe and efficient (not compared to Asia but still in really good conditions). Parking space was the big blocker for owning cars in Hong Kong too, not to the degree of Japan, but it certainly inflated that barrier.
• usr1106 3y ago
  I know very little about Japan or Tokyo. But watching the public transport animation on https://minitokyo3d.com/ https://minitokyo3d.com/ is amazing. They also have links to live railcams. Two of my favorite ones are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glw8cHPywtE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glw8cHPywtE exactly like the article describes, lots of bikes and some small cars. (It has several hours of buffer so you can scroll back if you happen to visit during Japanese night) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tet7qKMUncA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tet7qKMUncA this is the impatient train spotter's paradise. It never takes more than minute until the next train comes. As a bonus for hackers there is automatic detection of the rolling stock type. Not sure whether the code is open source, did not see a github link. (This camera is not 24 hours, so you need to visit during Japanese daytime.)
• mitchbob 3y ago
  Archived: https://archive.ph/jlg7X https://archive.ph/jlg7X
• favflam 3y ago
  So, the US pre-1950s.