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Popular economic "theories" are starting to feel like they've just been excuses for the ruling classes to siphon off all of the benefits of technological advanc
by spicyusername 3y ago
Popular economic "theories" are starting to feel like they've just been excuses for the ruling classes to siphon off all of the benefits of technological advancement for themselves.
More astrology than chemistry.
- hedora 3y agoCongress used to have a wing of non-partisan scientists (including economists). Eventually propagandists got elected and fired them.
- CyberDildonics 3y agoWhat specific part of the study are you talking about here?
- spicyusername 3y agoI'm referring to the fact that the dominant economic perspective would oppose the idea that a rising minimum wage could be a good thing.
- CyberDildonics 3y agoAgain, what specific problem do you have with the study other than going against your own personal conventional wisdom?
- paulddraper 3y agoFirst principles. Namely, supply/demand, and the effect of price controls. When you find perpetual motion, the question isn't whether it's wrong, but how it is wrong.
- CyberDildonics 3y agoOnce again, what specifically do you think is wrong with the study? If it's so easy to poke holes in it then do it instead of calling it 'perpetual motion' without even quoting any of it.
- paulddraper 3y agoI suspect the correlation is valid, but mistaken for causation. For example, areas with auto emissions tests tend to have worse air quality. Emissions tests don't cause worse quality, but air quality concerns beget emissions testing. Similarly, perhaps the areas that raised statutory minimum wage were areas had inherently rising wages/cost of living due to existing economic growth.
- spicyusername 3y agoI think you're misunderstanding. I'm making a joke about the fact that it's starting to feel like neoliberalism is just a hand wavy way for rich people to continue to get rich at the expense of everyone else. I have no issue with the article, just the opposite. Studies like these are demonstrating how we shouldn't assume popular economic theories are immune to scrutiny.
- paulddraper 3y agoMMT has entered the chat
- Gibbon1 3y agoIn the west the state is controlled almost 100% by rentier capital. And economics functions as the state religion. That's an honest opinion of mine.
- kevviiinn 3y agoThat's the essence of capitalism, the state is controlled by capital
- panick21_ 3y agoSo therefore pretty much every government ever is capitalism. Got it, super useful definition. Even steppe triple confederations were lead by the families with the most livestock. I guess one might be able to call a few exception, but its a definition so broad its utterly useless.
- kevviiinn 3y agoPower structures haven't changed a whole lot, do you seriously think they have?
- panick21_ 3y agoOk so you think its reasonable to call basically any society in the last 4000 years 'capitalism'? I mean if you want to define the word that way, feel free, its just not how almost anybody else defines it. Not even Marx.
- Gibbon1 3y agoThe key phrase is rentier capital vs active types of capital. Rentier capitalists are parasites. Unlike say industrial capitalists they don't work.
- kevviiinn 3y agoDo you honestly think industrial capital owners are working more than landlords? Landlords hire people to do maintenance, industrial capital owners hire people to assemble or fabricate or whatnot
- panick21_ 3y agoAnd popular economic "theories" are not more wrong then any other popular broadly held believes in any other soft or even hard science. And they are not a some genius device designed by the ruling classes. And economists are not the evil because the show basic 'supply and demand' diagrams in Econ 101. History is just as prone to this. Sociology and so on. And yes broadly defined 'ruling classes' will use everything and anything to keep their position and privilege. Including popular misconceptions of science of all kinds.
- euroderf 3y ago"Theories" that are pervasive thruout society and that are believed in religiously amount to a form of ideological totalitarianism.
- mc32 3y agoPeople hear what they want to hear. Some people will hear “if we up minimum wage to $100 it’ll create more jobs and end poverty!”
- lumost 3y agoClerks make $35 an hour in Switzerland. If we accept lower inequality and more expensive items - it’s possible that economic growth would improve.
- bequanna 3y agoI don’t understand this. Isn’t that just forcing the lower middle class up by artificially inflating wages? What is the motivation to pursue additional training, education, or to work challenging/unappealing jobs? We also do this in the US to some extent with overpaid government workers. Until recently, there were relatively few of these jobs. But now state and federal agencies have become bloated with BS “do nothing” jobs.
- lumost 3y agoIt’s complicated. High base wages incentivize automation. Switzerland has much more extensive automation of basic labor then the us has. Higher wages also trickle up, a plumber demands 50/hr etc. jobs paying the base rate are rarely desirable from a social standpoint - social pressure provides an incentive to up skill/increase service standards.
- panick21_ 3y agoYes but it didn't go there because one the the government announced that every clerk got that much money. The economy grew and wages went up over time. You can just say 'everybody gets a billion $ an hour' by law and have a great economy.
- paulddraper 3y agoDo they make $35 an hour because of minimum wage law, or market economics? (Answer: Switzerland does not have a statutory minimum wage.)