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Half of the comments in this thread sound like they were written by CCP propaganda chatbots. A dead giveaway is the failure to address the topic at hand and imm

Half of the comments in this thread sound like they were written by CCP propaganda chatbots. A dead giveaway is the failure to address the topic at hand and immediately deflect to "but the USA does XYZ too!" No one is disputing such a claim, but that's also not what we're talking about here.

archagon 3y ago
Is there any value to this comment?
hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
[flagged]
kelipso 3y ago
Lol. Dump all the US instances into the memory hole. Only bring it up when China does it. When you bring up how US does it too, it's "whataboutism". Have to say it's a great strategy for maintaining a narrative.
- bostonwalker 3y ago
  Would China allow US to spy on hundreds of millions of its citizens everyday? Answer: no, reference the Great Firewall.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    The Great Firewall is to prevent Chinese people from speaking freely or reading unapproved things. It is not to protect Chinese people.
  - goolz 3y ago
    You don't actually believe that is what it is for right? This is sarcasm? I can not tell...
  - ssnistfajen 3y ago
    Your misunderstanding of what the GFW is for perfectly demonstrates why people like you don't deserve to have your opinions on China taken seriously.
  - ajsnigrutin 3y ago
    I mean... "the rest of the world" (except china, north korea and maybe some other country with a "great firewall") allows US to spy on millions and billions of it's citizens daily... all the android phones, facebook apps, instagrams, snapchats etc. ...sadly.
- joenot443 3y ago
  Based off your past comments, you have some pretty strong feelings about both China and the USA which might lead one to think you’re not really approaching this discussion in good faith.
  - kelipso 3y ago
    Oh good, another thing is to accuse people who have different opinions of being propagandized drones. Pretty effective is controlling the narrative too.
    - joenot443 3y ago
      I don't think you're a drone or that you're propagandized, I just that you have strong opinions. I'm admittedly flattered that you think my idle observations are part of some concentrated effort of 'controlling the narrative' though :)
      - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
        We're all soldiers in Nakatomi space. Posting is warfare.
      - kelipso 3y ago
        You have to understand it's really annoying when people accuse you of not arguing in good faith, especially for something like having "strong opinions". These kinds of accusations are itself not "approaching the discussion in good faith", so you just go in a circle and don't get anywhere. You can try passing it off as idle observations but not after you admitted going through my comments lol.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  > Dump all the US instances into the memory hole Yes, it's called focusing on a particular subject, the topic at hand. Do you go into Snowden threads and complain that people are dumping the routine monitoring of their populace by the Chinese in the memory hole?
bostonwalker 3y ago
For reference: this specific fallacy being invoked by the CCP astroturfers is called “whataboutism”.
- tpmx 3y ago
  When faced with undeniable criticism: I believe China/CCP learned this "defense" tactic from the Soviet Union, who if, not inventing it, at the very least brought it to new standardized levels.
  - gs17 3y ago
    One example from the Soviets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
    - Pulcinella 3y ago
      “Example from the Soviets”? Buddy that actually happened. You don’t get to deny the truth just because it is inconvenient or makes you look bad.
      - triyambakam 3y ago
        You're just further perpetuating whataboutism. The point is that yes, it happened, but it's distracting from the topic at hand.
        Pulcinella 3y ago
        Talking about the truth is not a distraction. You are being taken for a ride. “No don’t look behind the curtain! It’s just a distraction!” The healthy adult thing to do would be to own up to it and work on fixing the problem. “Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.”
slim 3y ago
I know this feeling. It probably just means that you live in different reality than half the people commenting here. Maybe half the people commenting here are not americans ? It's still interesting and on subject, because social networks are probably what is causing this divide, because bubbles are isolated by design
- kranke155 3y ago
  No, chat bots are a huge problem so are botfarms and sock puppets supported by huge bot farms. They are everywhere and they are degrading content
- ajsnigrutin 3y ago
  I'm one of those not-americans, and for me it's just another different country getting my data (well.. would-be, if I had tiktok installed... or if i had facebook... so for me personally, it's only google that's problematic right now). Americans, welcome to the club of "the rest of the world"-ers, where foreign governments get access to our data :)
  - roenxi 3y ago
    I'm not American, but even for people living in the US - China peering at your TikTok data is less threatening than the Feds peering at your Facebook posts. One of those two groups is much more likely to cause trouble for US citizens. The Chinese won't have so many ex-lovers looking up their old flame for example, simply because there aren't so many cross-country relationships. And China is less likely to brand Americans as domestic terrorists. The Chinese won't tempted to use it to enforce laws retroactively or hunt down minorities as the US government would be if it goes rogue. There are just less opportunities overall to abuse the knowledge.
COGlory 3y ago
Be that as it may.... > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ipnon 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - woooooo 3y ago
    I'm not Chinese, hi. The US is collecting vastly more data from our social media companies and using it to launch drone strikes that actually kill people. Nobody is outraged by this, it's "normal". Why should I be more outraged at this story?
    - threeseed 3y ago
      Nobody is asking you to choose which story to be more outraged about. Just that you really should stick to the topic at hand. Otherwise why not bring up that car accidents are a much bigger problem than social media.
      - axxto 3y ago
        "Condemning the actions of a foreign government" and "condemning similar actions by your own government" seem a little more related and on-topic than "social media and car crashes". And in my own personal opinion, that's especially true if those questionable actions by your own government overshadow any other similar effort both in scope, size and funding by several orders of magnitude when compared to the rest of the world. This obsession with shills is unhealthy. I'm glad there's a rule against it. I'm not Chinese either, and I find it quite sad that you have to state that in here sometimes just to be taken seriously, or else be called a shill.
ssnistfajen 3y ago
And you are preemptively accusing without proof against users who are simply voicing their opinions like everyone is allowed to do here. Why are you attempting to act like an arbiter of legitimacy when you are clearly not one?
ajsnigrutin 3y ago
You have to be aware, that many people here are not from USA, and their/our first thought is, that facebook and many others do that too. So for many of us, a foreign entity already has access to our conversations, content, and all the same data now china has from tiktok. For americans it might be different, since until now, it was only their three-letter agencies checking up on them (which technically is even worse, since chinese have a lot less access to those people if they start causing trouble than the local US agencies), and now it's someone else too.. but for "the rest of the world", it's just another country doing the same as has been done before by americans. If you're bothered by social networks having access to a lot of very personal data, you're late to the game... if you're bothered because it's a different country, then welcome to the club.
- merek 3y ago
  > if you're bothered because it's a different country, then welcome to the club. The issue is which country has access to our very personal data, not simply a "different country". There are many countries whose citizens would trust a foreign government ahead of their own.
  - ajsnigrutin 3y ago
    Let's say you're an american... and that you're plotting some anti-government movement at home. Which is more problematic... china knowing that, or your own government knowing that? I live in a small eu country... and as in most other eu countries, any weird request from china (for extradition or whatever) would just get ignored... if US asked... well, just look at assange.
    - gretch 3y ago
      > Let's say you're an american... and that you're plotting some anti-government movement at home. Which is more problematic Okay and for the hundreds of millions of us who are not, do we prefer our govt knowing about us or the CCP. I’m not a fan of the USG by any means - I have many many criticisms of the govt and I’ve participated in protests. To put contemporary USG and CCP in the same league is crazy talk.

archagon 3y ago

Is there any value to this comment?

hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago

[flagged]

kelipso 3y ago

Lol. Dump all the US instances into the memory hole. Only bring it up when China does it. When you bring up how US does it too, it's "whataboutism". Have to say it's a great strategy for maintaining a narrative.

bostonwalker 3y ago
Would China allow US to spy on hundreds of millions of its citizens everyday? Answer: no, reference the Great Firewall.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  The Great Firewall is to prevent Chinese people from speaking freely or reading unapproved things. It is not to protect Chinese people.
- goolz 3y ago
  You don't actually believe that is what it is for right? This is sarcasm? I can not tell...
- ssnistfajen 3y ago
  Your misunderstanding of what the GFW is for perfectly demonstrates why people like you don't deserve to have your opinions on China taken seriously.
- ajsnigrutin 3y ago
  I mean... "the rest of the world" (except china, north korea and maybe some other country with a "great firewall") allows US to spy on millions and billions of it's citizens daily... all the android phones, facebook apps, instagrams, snapchats etc. ...sadly.
joenot443 3y ago
Based off your past comments, you have some pretty strong feelings about both China and the USA which might lead one to think you’re not really approaching this discussion in good faith.
- kelipso 3y ago
  Oh good, another thing is to accuse people who have different opinions of being propagandized drones. Pretty effective is controlling the narrative too.
  - joenot443 3y ago
    I don't think you're a drone or that you're propagandized, I just that you have strong opinions. I'm admittedly flattered that you think my idle observations are part of some concentrated effort of 'controlling the narrative' though :)
    - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
      We're all soldiers in Nakatomi space. Posting is warfare.
    - kelipso 3y ago
      You have to understand it's really annoying when people accuse you of not arguing in good faith, especially for something like having "strong opinions". These kinds of accusations are itself not "approaching the discussion in good faith", so you just go in a circle and don't get anywhere. You can try passing it off as idle observations but not after you admitted going through my comments lol.
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
> Dump all the US instances into the memory hole Yes, it's called focusing on a particular subject, the topic at hand. Do you go into Snowden threads and complain that people are dumping the routine monitoring of their populace by the Chinese in the memory hole?

bostonwalker 3y ago

For reference: this specific fallacy being invoked by the CCP astroturfers is called “whataboutism”.

tpmx 3y ago
When faced with undeniable criticism: I believe China/CCP learned this "defense" tactic from the Soviet Union, who if, not inventing it, at the very least brought it to new standardized levels.
- gs17 3y ago
  One example from the Soviets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
  - Pulcinella 3y ago
    “Example from the Soviets”? Buddy that actually happened. You don’t get to deny the truth just because it is inconvenient or makes you look bad.
    - triyambakam 3y ago
      You're just further perpetuating whataboutism. The point is that yes, it happened, but it's distracting from the topic at hand.
      - Pulcinella 3y ago
        Talking about the truth is not a distraction. You are being taken for a ride. “No don’t look behind the curtain! It’s just a distraction!” The healthy adult thing to do would be to own up to it and work on fixing the problem. “Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.”

slim 3y ago

I know this feeling. It probably just means that you live in different reality than half the people commenting here. Maybe half the people commenting here are not americans ? It's still interesting and on subject, because social networks are probably what is causing this divide, because bubbles are isolated by design

kranke155 3y ago
No, chat bots are a huge problem so are botfarms and sock puppets supported by huge bot farms. They are everywhere and they are degrading content
ajsnigrutin 3y ago
I'm one of those not-americans, and for me it's just another different country getting my data (well.. would-be, if I had tiktok installed... or if i had facebook... so for me personally, it's only google that's problematic right now). Americans, welcome to the club of "the rest of the world"-ers, where foreign governments get access to our data :)
- roenxi 3y ago
  I'm not American, but even for people living in the US - China peering at your TikTok data is less threatening than the Feds peering at your Facebook posts. One of those two groups is much more likely to cause trouble for US citizens. The Chinese won't have so many ex-lovers looking up their old flame for example, simply because there aren't so many cross-country relationships. And China is less likely to brand Americans as domestic terrorists. The Chinese won't tempted to use it to enforce laws retroactively or hunt down minorities as the US government would be if it goes rogue. There are just less opportunities overall to abuse the knowledge.

COGlory 3y ago

Be that as it may.... > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

ipnon 3y ago
[flagged]
- woooooo 3y ago
  I'm not Chinese, hi. The US is collecting vastly more data from our social media companies and using it to launch drone strikes that actually kill people. Nobody is outraged by this, it's "normal". Why should I be more outraged at this story?
  - threeseed 3y ago
    Nobody is asking you to choose which story to be more outraged about. Just that you really should stick to the topic at hand. Otherwise why not bring up that car accidents are a much bigger problem than social media.
    - axxto 3y ago
      "Condemning the actions of a foreign government" and "condemning similar actions by your own government" seem a little more related and on-topic than "social media and car crashes". And in my own personal opinion, that's especially true if those questionable actions by your own government overshadow any other similar effort both in scope, size and funding by several orders of magnitude when compared to the rest of the world. This obsession with shills is unhealthy. I'm glad there's a rule against it. I'm not Chinese either, and I find it quite sad that you have to state that in here sometimes just to be taken seriously, or else be called a shill.

ssnistfajen 3y ago

And you are preemptively accusing without proof against users who are simply voicing their opinions like everyone is allowed to do here. Why are you attempting to act like an arbiter of legitimacy when you are clearly not one?

ajsnigrutin 3y ago

You have to be aware, that many people here are not from USA, and their/our first thought is, that facebook and many others do that too. So for many of us, a foreign entity already has access to our conversations, content, and all the same data now china has from tiktok. For americans it might be different, since until now, it was only their three-letter agencies checking up on them (which technically is even worse, since chinese have a lot less access to those people if they start causing trouble than the local US agencies), and now it's someone else too.. but for "the rest of the world", it's just another country doing the same as has been done before by americans. If you're bothered by social networks having access to a lot of very personal data, you're late to the game... if you're bothered because it's a different country, then welcome to the club.

merek 3y ago
> if you're bothered because it's a different country, then welcome to the club. The issue is which country has access to our very personal data, not simply a "different country". There are many countries whose citizens would trust a foreign government ahead of their own.
- ajsnigrutin 3y ago
  Let's say you're an american... and that you're plotting some anti-government movement at home. Which is more problematic... china knowing that, or your own government knowing that? I live in a small eu country... and as in most other eu countries, any weird request from china (for extradition or whatever) would just get ignored... if US asked... well, just look at assange.
  - gretch 3y ago
    > Let's say you're an american... and that you're plotting some anti-government movement at home. Which is more problematic Okay and for the hundreds of millions of us who are not, do we prefer our govt knowing about us or the CCP. I’m not a fan of the USG by any means - I have many many criticisms of the govt and I’ve participated in protests. To put contemporary USG and CCP in the same league is crazy talk.