21 ms·

Asus UK PR believes it is ‘legal to buy positive reviews’

255 points by dangle1 3y ago

necovek 3y ago
But it is legal. The obligation is on the reviewer to highlight they've been paid for a review, otherwise they are illegally misleading their readers. Whether that's moral is another thing.
- bgidley 3y ago
  It may not be legal depending on how it’s done - this was Asus UK and the rules are on https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/online-reviews-and-endorsements-advice-for-businesses/online-reviews-giving-consumers-the-full-picture https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/online-reviews-an... The UK Government are also in processing tightening this up…
  - c0m 3y ago
    I suspect the CSA’s new ‘rip-off tip-off’ campaign would be interested in this! https://ripoff-tipoff.campaign.gov.uk/ https://ripoff-tipoff.campaign.gov.uk/
- orra 3y ago
  You're right that paid reviews may be legal if they're clearly advertised as adverts, as opposed to framed as impartial reviews. But walking that line is fine, right, because people expect reviews to be impartial. Regardless, the legal obligation[1] to transparently advertise this is on the firm, not (just) the bought reviewer. IIRC the Advertising Standards Authority recently had a case on a social media paid promotion, which reinforced this. Regardless, IMO the statute is quite clear the obligation is on the firm. [1] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1277/part/2/made https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1277/part/2/made
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  I'm not so sure about that: > Don’t commission third parties to write fake reviews – you may be liable for their actions https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/online-reviews-and-endorsements-advice-for-businesses/online-reviews-giving-consumers-the-full-picture https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/online-reviews-an... With proper disclosure there may be some leeway, but I wouldn't just assume paying someone for a fake review is legal. UK advertising laws can be very strict in some cases (and rightfully so, in my opinion).
  - CWuestefeld 3y ago
    I don't know UK law, but at least in the US, there's a clear difference between "illegal" and "liable". There's a lot of stuff that's perfectly legal, but that I may be liable for.
    - chris-orgmenta 3y ago
      IANAL. I understand that fake reviews are indeed against the law in the UK (Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations 2008, etc.)? But perhaps it's viewed as too loosely defined or hard to enforce. In context here, liable: 1) Liable for claims that the fake review makes, i.e. held to the same standards as any other marketing/claims you make about your product, 2) Liable if you mislead consumers by making them think it's a real review. "You are liable, i.e. you are the entity that may break the law" The Digital Markets Bill may affect this in 2024 (?) - Not sure whether it will be more focused on regulating 'platforms'.
- gnopgnip 3y ago
  Almost all new car reviews are paid. It often includes flying reviewers out and paying $500+ a night for their hotel
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mrweasel 3y ago
  It's just always surprising when companies think that legality and morality are the same thing. Either they didn't expect to get caught, or they see nothing wrong with it, that latter being worse. The majority of companies that gets punished by consumers these days seem to me to be those who think that just because something is legal, then it's without consequences.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
As a corollary, then, is it legal to buy negative reviews on competing products?
- orra 3y ago
  That's a pertinent question.
  - mnd999 3y ago
    It almost certainly (in the UK at least) would carry a high risk of a defamation claim for the people writing (or generating) them.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
      Defamation means lying. You can buy negative reviews of your competition where nobody lies. There are certainly a lot of interesting subtleties and implications here though.
      - pevey 3y ago
        In the US, truthfulness of a statement is an affirmative defense to libel/defamation, but believe it or not, that is not the case everywhere. Specifically, it is not the case in the UK.
        mnd999 3y ago
        Truth is a defence here, but you have to prove that what you said is true, not the other way around. If you made up 100 negative reviews that’s going to be tricky.
        rsynnott 3y ago
        Not sure why people believe this so frequently; it’s completely wrong. Truth is an absolute defence under both systems, though there are significant differences around burden of proof and importance of intent.
forgetfreeman 3y ago
Fucking gross. The individuals involved here lack all character and should have been fired the moment they suggested anything like this.
- Veen 3y ago
  You'd be hard pushed to find a PR flack who does have "character".
  - forgetfreeman 3y ago
    Agree categorically.
    - fuzzfactor 3y ago
      Sometimes you need to be "honest" and admit how else are you going to get positive reviews anyway?
      - forgetfreeman 3y ago
        I'm not sure I follow, could you elaborate?
        fuzzfactor 3y ago
        Pretty much as honest as some people get does not reach the level of actual integrity.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
MrGilbert 3y ago
Asus is currently in a bad spot, as they released a BIOS update as Beta, which should address an issue where their boards would cause a CPU to explode. They did, however, leave the usual "this is beta, install on your own risk, this will void your warranty" disclaimer on, which currently backfires, as it seems as if Asus does not want to take responsibility. It is unknown if the statement was intentional , or just the usual disclaimer. Of course, that PR statement doesn’t help. Source: https://youtu.be/cbGfc-JBxlY https://youtu.be/cbGfc-JBxlY (There are more sources to it) //Edit: Another well-known channel stated that they used Asus for a long time, and noticed a decline in quality of the samples provided (as far as receiving boards that have been RMA'ed before), and also noticed that the RMA experience for average Jane and Joe has become worse. Asus also failed to negotiate further sponsoring the channel by simply not getting back to requests. As such, the channel completely canceled all business relations to Asus. Source: https://youtu.be/wZ-QVOKGVyM https://youtu.be/wZ-QVOKGVyM
- tinus_hn 3y ago
  > Asus also failed to negotiate further sponsoring the channel by simply not getting back to requests. This doesn’t really sound like an unbiased source with respect to the quality of Asus products.
- doikor 3y ago
  There is an earlier non beta BIOS that has the voltage limit correctly applied. The beta one has a buggy AGESA version that AMD already withdrew. (Well at least for my tuf gaming x670e-plus wifi)
  - MrGilbert 3y ago
    I have been out of the hardware loop for quite a while now. The referenced Beta BIOS in the GN video (the first link) is from May 2nd, and Steve claims that the voltage is still too high, as it is the boards task to set the correct VSOC setpoint, as the EXPO profile doesn’t have one per definition. (Only half valid knowledge, just reiterating what I saw)
- pitaj 3y ago
so-and-so 3y ago
Asus used to be a great company run by great engineers, but in the last couple of years their motherboards have become terrible. By far the worst of the big 4.
- blagie 3y ago
  Who is considered good right now? Asus was my go-to brand for quality, but I haven't looked in a decade or more. I'm glad to pay a modest premium for reliability. I'd like parts which are well-tested, use high-quality capacitors, and have basic safety features (like over-current / over-voltage protection on power supplies). What I'd really like is a review site which steps through the engineering of things like motherboards and power supplies, tests things like short circuits on the output, and checks which passives are used and quality of things like solder joints. Most of this stuff isn't expensive.
  - kiririn 3y ago
    Supermicro if you can find anywhere stocking their boards
  - morjom 3y ago
    I can only recommend TechPowerup, Tom's Hardware and Buildzoid for Motherboard stuff. Those are the ones I check out. I think TPU also has PSU review?
  - MrGilbert 3y ago
    Asrock was so annoyed being called out as "the mainboards to avoid", that they stepped up their game quite a lot. Their products are quite decent.
    - raincole 3y ago
      Fun fact: Asrock was a subsidiary* of ASUS, and its purpose was to specifically produce cheap but worse motherboards. (Just a random fun fact, not implying its product quality now) *EDIT: I mean ASUS funded it and owned it by the time. I'm not sure if "subsidiary" is the correct legal term here.
blibble 3y ago
right, so now any positive reviews about any and all Asus products are automatically suspect and should be disregarded that was easy to deal with
anovikov 3y ago
It is of course not legal, but practiced by everyone nonetheless. I mean, even 20 years ago all "awards" and other nonsense were just paid, different award figurines from different "review" sites arriving with the same sender address... Like after 20 years on a dating sites one may forget that they were supposed to pretend that they were looking for the "true love", people can forget it here too... Not even sure these lies are a benefit to anyone anymore, like people aren't dumb. It's more of a ritual dance.
anigbrowl 3y ago
PR people are a cancer on society.
Havoc 3y ago
Asus is on a roll this week
jsdeveloper 3y ago
Its illegal to cheat! and buying positive reviews is exactly that!
s1k3s 3y ago
So does the entire group of “tech reviews” creators on YouTube. Finding an actual review of a product has become impossible, since most videos are just the guy basically reading the product landing page with some nice angles on camera. Ban this and the entire category disappears from YT.
- Too 3y ago
  Add unboxing. Nobody cares how nicely the user manual was rolled up into premium origami packaging. I care about the product performance and how well it holds up after few weeks abuse. The fight to be first with a review even if you haven’t even reviewed anything is getting ridiculous. Just wait until AI get thrown into this mix.
DizzyDoo 3y ago
My dentist here in Canada has signs up that advertise that you get a free electric tooth brush if you leave a 5 star review on Google. I've not done that, it seems quite wrong, but I would imagine this is also very much against Google's policies? I was surprised how clear and obvious the signage was. Seems to have worked though, the dentist's office has lots of 5 star reviews.
- newsclues 3y ago
  People will give up passwords for a cheap pen. Free stuff is a hack for many peoples minds. There is a reason salespeople will bring you a coffee and donut.
  - petercooper 3y ago
    Bit of a tangent, but there are further psychological reasons why hot drinks are used in sales situations: https://news.yale.edu/2008/10/23/hot-coffee-we-see-warm-heart-yale-researchers-find https://news.yale.edu/2008/10/23/hot-coffee-we-see-warm-hear...
- abyssin 3y ago
  Last week I returned a borrowed suit and I was afraid to be late because it had been more than a week. The owner of the place told me it would be fine if I left a 5 stars review. Now I’m wondering how common this gaming is.
- r3trohack3r 3y ago
  This sign always has the opposite desired effect on me. If I see a sign trading for 5-Star reviews, there isn’t any way for me to tell which reviews were written for a free burrito. So I immediately discredit all 5-star reviews the restaurant receives.
  - mellosouls 3y ago
    I do this anyway, I just don't trust rating systems so tend to remove the top and bottom marks. Obv not a perfect solution and unfair to those who aren't gaming but over the top 5 star and bitchy one star reviews even when genuine aren't always that representative.
scotty79 3y ago
Why exactly is it not legal?
gigatexal 3y ago
Welp never buying Asus. I guess it’s MSI from now on.
swayvil 3y ago
Call it a free speech thing. Like bribing legislators. The business is speaking to the "decision making person" in the language of business : words of money.
kgwxd 3y ago
It absolutely should be legal. But also, if you have to, everyone now knows you're actually garbage. All this does is expose how useless review/rating systems are.
varelse 3y ago
[dead]
throwaway038519 3y ago
The enshittification (of ASUS in this instance) continues, unabated [0]. [0] https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/ https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/
BonoboIO 3y ago
Gigabyte was and is my Mainboard Company. I never had a bad example and never had to RMA anything. Maybe I m lucky.
m-p-3 3y ago
It may not be "illegal" to buy positive reviews, but it definitely undermine the trustworthiness of their whole brand if they do. I'll definitely stay clear of their product for the near future if they undervalue their product so much that they feel inclined to "cheat" their way back. Trust is hard to build and so easy to lose.
williamtrask 3y ago
Fun fact - a good percentage of YouTube and Spotify views are fake.
afking 3y ago
I worked at a startup, that was applying to be a B corp, where the CEO asked everyone to rate the product 5-stars. Gave them guidance on how to fill out the forms and what to write.

255 points by dangle1 3y ago

But it is legal. The obligation is on the reviewer to highlight they've been paid for a review, otherwise they are illegally misleading their readers. Whether that's moral is another thing.

bgidley 3y ago
It may not be legal depending on how it’s done - this was Asus UK and the rules are on https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/online-reviews-and-endorsements-advice-for-businesses/online-reviews-giving-consumers-the-full-picture https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/online-reviews-an... The UK Government are also in processing tightening this up…
- c0m 3y ago
  I suspect the CSA’s new ‘rip-off tip-off’ campaign would be interested in this! https://ripoff-tipoff.campaign.gov.uk/ https://ripoff-tipoff.campaign.gov.uk/
orra 3y ago
You're right that paid reviews may be legal if they're clearly advertised as adverts, as opposed to framed as impartial reviews. But walking that line is fine, right, because people expect reviews to be impartial. Regardless, the legal obligation[1] to transparently advertise this is on the firm, not (just) the bought reviewer. IIRC the Advertising Standards Authority recently had a case on a social media paid promotion, which reinforced this. Regardless, IMO the statute is quite clear the obligation is on the firm. [1] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1277/part/2/made https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1277/part/2/made
jeroenhd 3y ago
I'm not so sure about that: > Don’t commission third parties to write fake reviews – you may be liable for their actions https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/online-reviews-and-endorsements-advice-for-businesses/online-reviews-giving-consumers-the-full-picture https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/online-reviews-an... With proper disclosure there may be some leeway, but I wouldn't just assume paying someone for a fake review is legal. UK advertising laws can be very strict in some cases (and rightfully so, in my opinion).
- CWuestefeld 3y ago
  I don't know UK law, but at least in the US, there's a clear difference between "illegal" and "liable". There's a lot of stuff that's perfectly legal, but that I may be liable for.
  - chris-orgmenta 3y ago
    IANAL. I understand that fake reviews are indeed against the law in the UK (Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations 2008, etc.)? But perhaps it's viewed as too loosely defined or hard to enforce. In context here, liable: 1) Liable for claims that the fake review makes, i.e. held to the same standards as any other marketing/claims you make about your product, 2) Liable if you mislead consumers by making them think it's a real review. "You are liable, i.e. you are the entity that may break the law" The Digital Markets Bill may affect this in 2024 (?) - Not sure whether it will be more focused on regulating 'platforms'.
gnopgnip 3y ago
Almost all new car reviews are paid. It often includes flying reviewers out and paying $500+ a night for their hotel
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mrweasel 3y ago
It's just always surprising when companies think that legality and morality are the same thing. Either they didn't expect to get caught, or they see nothing wrong with it, that latter being worse. The majority of companies that gets punished by consumers these days seem to me to be those who think that just because something is legal, then it's without consequences.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

As a corollary, then, is it legal to buy negative reviews on competing products?

orra 3y ago
That's a pertinent question.
- mnd999 3y ago
  It almost certainly (in the UK at least) would carry a high risk of a defamation claim for the people writing (or generating) them.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    Defamation means lying. You can buy negative reviews of your competition where nobody lies. There are certainly a lot of interesting subtleties and implications here though.
    - pevey 3y ago
      In the US, truthfulness of a statement is an affirmative defense to libel/defamation, but believe it or not, that is not the case everywhere. Specifically, it is not the case in the UK.
      - mnd999 3y ago
        Truth is a defence here, but you have to prove that what you said is true, not the other way around. If you made up 100 negative reviews that’s going to be tricky.
      - rsynnott 3y ago
        Not sure why people believe this so frequently; it’s completely wrong. Truth is an absolute defence under both systems, though there are significant differences around burden of proof and importance of intent.

forgetfreeman 3y ago

Fucking gross. The individuals involved here lack all character and should have been fired the moment they suggested anything like this.

Veen 3y ago
You'd be hard pushed to find a PR flack who does have "character".
- forgetfreeman 3y ago
  Agree categorically.
  - fuzzfactor 3y ago
    Sometimes you need to be "honest" and admit how else are you going to get positive reviews anyway?
    - forgetfreeman 3y ago
      I'm not sure I follow, could you elaborate?
      - fuzzfactor 3y ago
        Pretty much as honest as some people get does not reach the level of actual integrity.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

MrGilbert 3y ago

Asus is currently in a bad spot, as they released a BIOS update as Beta, which should address an issue where their boards would cause a CPU to explode. They did, however, leave the usual "this is beta, install on your own risk, this will void your warranty" disclaimer on, which currently backfires, as it seems as if Asus does not want to take responsibility. It is unknown if the statement was intentional , or just the usual disclaimer. Of course, that PR statement doesn’t help. Source: https://youtu.be/cbGfc-JBxlY https://youtu.be/cbGfc-JBxlY (There are more sources to it) //Edit: Another well-known channel stated that they used Asus for a long time, and noticed a decline in quality of the samples provided (as far as receiving boards that have been RMA'ed before), and also noticed that the RMA experience for average Jane and Joe has become worse. Asus also failed to negotiate further sponsoring the channel by simply not getting back to requests. As such, the channel completely canceled all business relations to Asus. Source: https://youtu.be/wZ-QVOKGVyM https://youtu.be/wZ-QVOKGVyM

tinus_hn 3y ago
> Asus also failed to negotiate further sponsoring the channel by simply not getting back to requests. This doesn’t really sound like an unbiased source with respect to the quality of Asus products.
doikor 3y ago
There is an earlier non beta BIOS that has the voltage limit correctly applied. The beta one has a buggy AGESA version that AMD already withdrew. (Well at least for my tuf gaming x670e-plus wifi)
- MrGilbert 3y ago
  I have been out of the hardware loop for quite a while now. The referenced Beta BIOS in the GN video (the first link) is from May 2nd, and Steve claims that the voltage is still too high, as it is the boards task to set the correct VSOC setpoint, as the EXPO profile doesn’t have one per definition. (Only half valid knowledge, just reiterating what I saw)
pitaj 3y ago

so-and-so 3y ago

Asus used to be a great company run by great engineers, but in the last couple of years their motherboards have become terrible. By far the worst of the big 4.

blagie 3y ago
Who is considered good right now? Asus was my go-to brand for quality, but I haven't looked in a decade or more. I'm glad to pay a modest premium for reliability. I'd like parts which are well-tested, use high-quality capacitors, and have basic safety features (like over-current / over-voltage protection on power supplies). What I'd really like is a review site which steps through the engineering of things like motherboards and power supplies, tests things like short circuits on the output, and checks which passives are used and quality of things like solder joints. Most of this stuff isn't expensive.
- kiririn 3y ago
  Supermicro if you can find anywhere stocking their boards
- morjom 3y ago
  I can only recommend TechPowerup, Tom's Hardware and Buildzoid for Motherboard stuff. Those are the ones I check out. I think TPU also has PSU review?
- MrGilbert 3y ago
  Asrock was so annoyed being called out as "the mainboards to avoid", that they stepped up their game quite a lot. Their products are quite decent.
  - raincole 3y ago
    Fun fact: Asrock was a subsidiary* of ASUS, and its purpose was to specifically produce cheap but worse motherboards. (Just a random fun fact, not implying its product quality now) *EDIT: I mean ASUS funded it and owned it by the time. I'm not sure if "subsidiary" is the correct legal term here.

blibble 3y ago

right, so now any positive reviews about any and all Asus products are automatically suspect and should be disregarded that was easy to deal with

anovikov 3y ago

It is of course not legal, but practiced by everyone nonetheless. I mean, even 20 years ago all "awards" and other nonsense were just paid, different award figurines from different "review" sites arriving with the same sender address... Like after 20 years on a dating sites one may forget that they were supposed to pretend that they were looking for the "true love", people can forget it here too... Not even sure these lies are a benefit to anyone anymore, like people aren't dumb. It's more of a ritual dance.

anigbrowl 3y ago

PR people are a cancer on society.

Havoc 3y ago

Asus is on a roll this week

jsdeveloper 3y ago

Its illegal to cheat! and buying positive reviews is exactly that!

s1k3s 3y ago

So does the entire group of “tech reviews” creators on YouTube. Finding an actual review of a product has become impossible, since most videos are just the guy basically reading the product landing page with some nice angles on camera. Ban this and the entire category disappears from YT.

Too 3y ago
Add unboxing. Nobody cares how nicely the user manual was rolled up into premium origami packaging. I care about the product performance and how well it holds up after few weeks abuse. The fight to be first with a review even if you haven’t even reviewed anything is getting ridiculous. Just wait until AI get thrown into this mix.

DizzyDoo 3y ago

My dentist here in Canada has signs up that advertise that you get a free electric tooth brush if you leave a 5 star review on Google. I've not done that, it seems quite wrong, but I would imagine this is also very much against Google's policies? I was surprised how clear and obvious the signage was. Seems to have worked though, the dentist's office has lots of 5 star reviews.

newsclues 3y ago
People will give up passwords for a cheap pen. Free stuff is a hack for many peoples minds. There is a reason salespeople will bring you a coffee and donut.
- petercooper 3y ago
  Bit of a tangent, but there are further psychological reasons why hot drinks are used in sales situations: https://news.yale.edu/2008/10/23/hot-coffee-we-see-warm-heart-yale-researchers-find https://news.yale.edu/2008/10/23/hot-coffee-we-see-warm-hear...
abyssin 3y ago
Last week I returned a borrowed suit and I was afraid to be late because it had been more than a week. The owner of the place told me it would be fine if I left a 5 stars review. Now I’m wondering how common this gaming is.
r3trohack3r 3y ago
This sign always has the opposite desired effect on me. If I see a sign trading for 5-Star reviews, there isn’t any way for me to tell which reviews were written for a free burrito. So I immediately discredit all 5-star reviews the restaurant receives.
- mellosouls 3y ago
  I do this anyway, I just don't trust rating systems so tend to remove the top and bottom marks. Obv not a perfect solution and unfair to those who aren't gaming but over the top 5 star and bitchy one star reviews even when genuine aren't always that representative.

scotty79 3y ago

Why exactly is it not legal?

gigatexal 3y ago

Welp never buying Asus. I guess it’s MSI from now on.

swayvil 3y ago

Call it a free speech thing. Like bribing legislators. The business is speaking to the "decision making person" in the language of business : words of money.

kgwxd 3y ago

It absolutely should be legal. But also, if you have to, everyone now knows you're actually garbage. All this does is expose how useless review/rating systems are.

varelse 3y ago

[dead]

throwaway038519 3y ago

The enshittification (of ASUS in this instance) continues, unabated [0]. [0] https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/ https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/

BonoboIO 3y ago

Gigabyte was and is my Mainboard Company. I never had a bad example and never had to RMA anything. Maybe I m lucky.

m-p-3 3y ago

It may not be "illegal" to buy positive reviews, but it definitely undermine the trustworthiness of their whole brand if they do. I'll definitely stay clear of their product for the near future if they undervalue their product so much that they feel inclined to "cheat" their way back. Trust is hard to build and so easy to lose.

williamtrask 3y ago

Fun fact - a good percentage of YouTube and Spotify views are fake.

afking 3y ago

I worked at a startup, that was applying to be a B corp, where the CEO asked everyone to rate the product 5-stars. Gave them guidance on how to fill out the forms and what to write.