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'We're all worse off': Britain is now paying the price to leave the EU

open-source-ux 3y ago
Non-paywall version: https://archive.is/VSDdb https://archive.is/VSDdb
airbreather 3y ago
Everyone except those that keep their money in the British offshore banking system, the real reason behind Brexit as Eu banking regs would have been a big problem. It is estimated that half of the worlds wealth resides in the British offshore banks.
- quibono 3y ago
  Would you happen to know anything one can read about this? Sounds interesting.
  - alimw 3y ago
    I guess this is the banal reason why most conspiracy theories take off. They "sound interesting".
  - freddybobs 3y ago
    There is a documentary about this called "the spiders web" https://thoughtmaybe.com/the-spiders-web/ https://thoughtmaybe.com/the-spiders-web/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYfnkLurLA8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYfnkLurLA8
- naveen99 3y ago
  Almost half of the worlds wealth is in real estate, which is hard to store offshore or in a bank. British banks probably store less than $5 trillion or less than 1% of global wealth.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    It's possible that a large fraction of outstanding mortgages are owned by intermediaries that ultimately reside in such an arrangement. But half does seem like an exaggeration. 1/10 would be more believable.
    - naveen99 3y ago
      Leverage in residential real estate is minimal. Probably less than 30% globally.
pdimitar 3y ago
Can somebody from the UK confirm? It's been a hugely divisive topic from what I've gathered in the last years. Are things on average worse, or the same, or better?
- throwaway22032 3y ago
  Things are a lot worse but it's difficult to disentangle. The coronavirus pandemic was an absolute shitshow of wasted money. A ton of locals left the workforce as well. We're paying for that on top of Brexit.
  - aix1 3y ago
    Corona, plus the war. Really, really hard to disentangle.
    - throwaway22032 3y ago
      Yes, that too. So we basically have issues with imports, less foreign labour, a ridiculous tax burden and an energy crisis. At the same time.
      - garyfirestorm 3y ago
        I guess one way to compare would be how did the rest of EU do vs Britain? If everyone did poorly Brexit had no measurable effect.
        tonyedgecombe 3y ago
        That assumes Brexit had no affect on the rest of the EU. Seems unlikely to me.
- sesuximo 3y ago
  Can’t think of anything that’s better
jgalt212 3y ago
For me there is value (I'm not sure exactly how much) to avoid having an unelected technocrats in Brussels (and sometimes Strasbourg) write the rules I must abide by.
- alimw 3y ago
  Now you can have an unelected technocrat somewhere in the UK write the standards for your new toaster. Or more likely it'll just be forgotten in the bonfire of regulations and you'll end up dead on your kitchen floor in a warm pool of butter.
  - jdsnape 3y ago
    Or, even more likely, we’ll just adopt the EU rules anyway as it’s the most pragmatic option but have absolutely no say in how they’re made
    - freddybobs 3y ago
      This. The Uk copied large amounts of EU law verbatim. That is not a blip due only having recently left. It's due to their main trading partner is the EU and it will remain the EU. To trade with the EU you have to follow EU laws. I'm afraid the bendy bananas was all FUD. And the "benefit" was chlorinated chickens.
      - ThisIsNotNew 3y ago
        The UK hasn't passed EU laws since Brexit was done Jan 2021 like they did when they were a member. It's just a free trade agreement now. It is up to UK exporters to provide proof of compliance just like Canadian exporters to EU. 42% of total UK exports is to EU, even pre-Brexit it was below 50%. In 2015 it was still just 44% of total UK exports to EU: https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/ukperspectives2016tradewiththeeuandbeyond/2016-05-25 https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationa...
        3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
- 11101010001100 3y ago
  [flagged]
andrewstuart 3y ago
The strangest thing about brexit is that all it took was one single 50% vote to exit. After untold time, money, effort and history put into joining Europe, you’d have thought that tearing the whole thing down would have required best of three votes to exit, or a supermajority, or a 12 month cooldown followed by a deciding second vote, or an “time apart” period before ending the relationship. Instead all it took was some politicking and a vote and it’s over. Seems a huge flaw in the planning of joining Europe in the first place. I suppose they didn't anticipate brexit as a real possibility.
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  The vote wasn't binding, and didn't specify exactly what a vote to leave even meant so there were multiple points at which a functional state could have course corrected.
- nly 3y ago
  That's what people mean when they say don't "take things for granted". Peace, health, relationships. All can be destroyed in minutes.
- quartz 3y ago
  I remain flabbergasted that Brexit happened but wasn't the overwhelming victory of Boris Johnson & the conservative party at the end of 2019 basically a re-statement by the population that they wanted it? IIRC that was basically a single issue election after which Brexit was more or less fast-tracked without continued internal opposition. Up until that point there had been a series of delays and rejections of Brexit plans in parliament and it looked like it might not happen. (I'm not British and have only watched this from afar so I'm actually curious about if this read is accurate.)
  - shawabawa3 3y ago
    It's accurate in that that's what the government said, and they had a huge majority so could do whatever they wanted But due to our awful electoral system, they achieved that with only around 40% of the vote
silisili 3y ago
I'm more curious about how it compares to other Western nations. There's only a sentence or two about that, and neither gives specifics. A lot of the issues listed - high inflation, product shortages, worker shortages, strikes, etc. all happened here in the US and worldwide as far as I'm aware.
fatfingerd 3y ago
I find it puzzling that every suggestion of how to recover relative prosperity for a western society reads like it was written by stage coach drivers or their reluctant employers. UK unemployment is somehow¹ only like 3.5%. To win relative to other countries you need to automate away domestic service and maintenance jobs and put those people in higher paid jobs, jobs related to exports, etc. I'm going to guess Slovenia isn't passing the UK by making impossibly complex privatization scams that need more people to get other people, their communications or their goods from point A to B, domestically or convince them to pay more for that.. ¹ Of course a plan like that excludes the people not seeking work so there are other options.. But the plans you hear from politicians are basically how to make a profit gouging your people for their savings and somehow indefinitely maintain a higher GDP as a result of those internal redistributions of money.
no_butterscotch 3y ago
For Brexit supporters - was it worth it from an autonomy perspective? A lot of the arguments I heard were things like, "we don't want Brussels having such a strong say in our <country/government/people/culture/etc>!" Do you feel the economy is worse but you have better control or options?

Non-paywall version: https://archive.is/VSDdb https://archive.is/VSDdb

Everyone except those that keep their money in the British offshore banking system, the real reason behind Brexit as Eu banking regs would have been a big problem. It is estimated that half of the worlds wealth resides in the British offshore banks.

quibono 3y ago
Would you happen to know anything one can read about this? Sounds interesting.
- alimw 3y ago
  I guess this is the banal reason why most conspiracy theories take off. They "sound interesting".
- freddybobs 3y ago
  There is a documentary about this called "the spiders web" https://thoughtmaybe.com/the-spiders-web/ https://thoughtmaybe.com/the-spiders-web/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYfnkLurLA8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYfnkLurLA8
naveen99 3y ago
Almost half of the worlds wealth is in real estate, which is hard to store offshore or in a bank. British banks probably store less than $5 trillion or less than 1% of global wealth.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  It's possible that a large fraction of outstanding mortgages are owned by intermediaries that ultimately reside in such an arrangement. But half does seem like an exaggeration. 1/10 would be more believable.
  - naveen99 3y ago
    Leverage in residential real estate is minimal. Probably less than 30% globally.

pdimitar 3y ago

Can somebody from the UK confirm? It's been a hugely divisive topic from what I've gathered in the last years. Are things on average worse, or the same, or better?

throwaway22032 3y ago
Things are a lot worse but it's difficult to disentangle. The coronavirus pandemic was an absolute shitshow of wasted money. A ton of locals left the workforce as well. We're paying for that on top of Brexit.
- aix1 3y ago
  Corona, plus the war. Really, really hard to disentangle.
  - throwaway22032 3y ago
    Yes, that too. So we basically have issues with imports, less foreign labour, a ridiculous tax burden and an energy crisis. At the same time.
    - garyfirestorm 3y ago
      I guess one way to compare would be how did the rest of EU do vs Britain? If everyone did poorly Brexit had no measurable effect.
      - tonyedgecombe 3y ago
        That assumes Brexit had no affect on the rest of the EU. Seems unlikely to me.
sesuximo 3y ago
Can’t think of anything that’s better

jgalt212 3y ago

For me there is value (I'm not sure exactly how much) to avoid having an unelected technocrats in Brussels (and sometimes Strasbourg) write the rules I must abide by.

alimw 3y ago
Now you can have an unelected technocrat somewhere in the UK write the standards for your new toaster. Or more likely it'll just be forgotten in the bonfire of regulations and you'll end up dead on your kitchen floor in a warm pool of butter.
- jdsnape 3y ago
  Or, even more likely, we’ll just adopt the EU rules anyway as it’s the most pragmatic option but have absolutely no say in how they’re made
  - freddybobs 3y ago
    This. The Uk copied large amounts of EU law verbatim. That is not a blip due only having recently left. It's due to their main trading partner is the EU and it will remain the EU. To trade with the EU you have to follow EU laws. I'm afraid the bendy bananas was all FUD. And the "benefit" was chlorinated chickens.
    - ThisIsNotNew 3y ago
      The UK hasn't passed EU laws since Brexit was done Jan 2021 like they did when they were a member. It's just a free trade agreement now. It is up to UK exporters to provide proof of compliance just like Canadian exporters to EU. 42% of total UK exports is to EU, even pre-Brexit it was below 50%. In 2015 it was still just 44% of total UK exports to EU: https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/ukperspectives2016tradewiththeeuandbeyond/2016-05-25 https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationa...
      - 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

11101010001100 3y ago
[flagged]

andrewstuart 3y ago

The strangest thing about brexit is that all it took was one single 50% vote to exit. After untold time, money, effort and history put into joining Europe, you’d have thought that tearing the whole thing down would have required best of three votes to exit, or a supermajority, or a 12 month cooldown followed by a deciding second vote, or an “time apart” period before ending the relationship. Instead all it took was some politicking and a vote and it’s over. Seems a huge flaw in the planning of joining Europe in the first place. I suppose they didn't anticipate brexit as a real possibility.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago
The vote wasn't binding, and didn't specify exactly what a vote to leave even meant so there were multiple points at which a functional state could have course corrected.
nly 3y ago
That's what people mean when they say don't "take things for granted". Peace, health, relationships. All can be destroyed in minutes.
quartz 3y ago
I remain flabbergasted that Brexit happened but wasn't the overwhelming victory of Boris Johnson & the conservative party at the end of 2019 basically a re-statement by the population that they wanted it? IIRC that was basically a single issue election after which Brexit was more or less fast-tracked without continued internal opposition. Up until that point there had been a series of delays and rejections of Brexit plans in parliament and it looked like it might not happen. (I'm not British and have only watched this from afar so I'm actually curious about if this read is accurate.)
- shawabawa3 3y ago
  It's accurate in that that's what the government said, and they had a huge majority so could do whatever they wanted But due to our awful electoral system, they achieved that with only around 40% of the vote

silisili 3y ago

I'm more curious about how it compares to other Western nations. There's only a sentence or two about that, and neither gives specifics. A lot of the issues listed - high inflation, product shortages, worker shortages, strikes, etc. all happened here in the US and worldwide as far as I'm aware.

fatfingerd 3y ago

I find it puzzling that every suggestion of how to recover relative prosperity for a western society reads like it was written by stage coach drivers or their reluctant employers. UK unemployment is somehow¹ only like 3.5%. To win relative to other countries you need to automate away domestic service and maintenance jobs and put those people in higher paid jobs, jobs related to exports, etc. I'm going to guess Slovenia isn't passing the UK by making impossibly complex privatization scams that need more people to get other people, their communications or their goods from point A to B, domestically or convince them to pay more for that.. ¹ Of course a plan like that excludes the people not seeking work so there are other options.. But the plans you hear from politicians are basically how to make a profit gouging your people for their savings and somehow indefinitely maintain a higher GDP as a result of those internal redistributions of money.

no_butterscotch 3y ago

For Brexit supporters - was it worth it from an autonomy perspective? A lot of the arguments I heard were things like, "we don't want Brussels having such a strong say in our <country/government/people/culture/etc>!" Do you feel the economy is worse but you have better control or options?