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Did you actually read the proposed text of the AI act? I certainly want more oversight over a medical startup or airplane manufacturer doing AI in the essential

Did you actually read the proposed text of the AI act? I certainly want more oversight over a medical startup or airplane manufacturer doing AI in the essential system components than otherwise. I think adding a high-risk category is a brilliant move.

jiggywiggy 3y ago
The problem with this type of regulation is that you need to add huge amount of vagueness in the law to be future proof. Leading to huge amounts of uncertainty for companies, unnecessary red tape and higher legal fees. As well as giving the power to a judge to punish companies if the public sentiment goes negative.
- sambeau 3y ago
  Laws can be iterated on. Uncertainty, red tape and legal fees all seem like worth-while brakes on a potentially dangerous industry. Better to be safe than sorry.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    > Laws can be iterated on. For Americans, this concept seems to be almost alien given the (at least from an European POV) more or less constant gridlock between House, Senate, Presidency and whatever the 50 states make out of that regarding enforcement. Or, to put it differently, they prefer the Wild West and barely self-regulated markets because they have completely lost any trust in government to create and modernize laws - a viewpoint that does make sense given the ridiculous age of key players in Congress. Feinstein is 90 years old, both likely Presidential candidates are over 75, Senators' median age is 65. How can anyone expect these people to even understand modern issues?! I think this is also the cause why so many American companies failed or have massive difficulties entering the European market. They simply cannot think that other countries have governments that actually govern and regulatory agencies that don't take it well if foreign companies try to buy their way out of trouble.
    - letmevoteplease 3y ago
      The design of the American system was always based on a distrust for power. The gridlock is the point. Not my favorite person but Scalia put it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggz_gd--UO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggz_gd--UO0
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        Eventually though it leads to a situation where no one has any trust left in government, which is extremely dangerous from a democracy perspective - it breeds resentment, splintering/secession and people taking the law into their own hands (or to put it bluntly, shooting at everything they deem a threat - including children playing hide-and-seek [1]). That's also the reason why there are so many doomsday preppers in the USA vs. everywhere else on the planet that isn't an active warzone. These people simply don't trust the government to keep them alive in a time of crisis. [1] https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/05/09/louisiana-man-shoots-14-year-old-girl-hide-and-seek/70198318007/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/05/09/louisia...
        zeroonetwothree 3y ago
        the US has more of a culture of self sufficiency. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It also has higher incomes that allow for such types of frivolous spending
        mschuster91 3y ago
        > It also has higher incomes that allow for such types of frivolous spending We have the same net income as the Americans in Europe (ludicrous tech salaries aside), we simply pay collectively with our taxes for stuff that Americans have to pay for on their own, first and foremost healthcare and retirement.
        logicchains 3y ago
        > extremely dangerous from a democracy perspective How is it extremely dangerous? Over a hundred million people died in the 20th century from trusting their government too much, nothing compares to that.
  - dantheman 3y ago
    How's the cookie banner going?
    - smarx007 3y ago
      On its way to the dumpster: https://noyb.eu/en/data-protection-authorities-support-noybs-call-fair-yesno-cookie-banners https://noyb.eu/en/data-protection-authorities-support-noybs... https://noyb.eu/en/noyb-aims-end-cookie-banner-terror-and-issues-more-500-gdpr-complaints https://noyb.eu/en/noyb-aims-end-cookie-banner-terror-and-is... Donate to NOYB if you can.
  - jiggywiggy 3y ago
    It's hard to find the line between better safe then sorry. On the surface level you are right. But look at the cost of medicine development, it has exponentially risen to billions in the last decades, stifling innovation. And although it maybe got a bit safer, it didn't get exponentially safer.
- smarx007 3y ago
  TÜV certification is the red tape I want. Just how in the North America people respect appliances with UL marking. But regarding the uncertainty, I agree with you. And I guess, it's inevitable given the pace of change and innovation. I am expecting more ISO standards to be created and updated in response to the AI Act, which will limit the uncertainty to some extent.
eimrine 3y ago
> Did you actually read the proposed text of the AI act? Are these 140 pages [1] the proposed text? [1] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2014_2019/plmrep/COMMITTEES/CJ40/DV/2023/05-11/ConsolidatedCA_IMCOLIBE_AI_ACT_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2014_2019/plmrep/COM...
- smarx007 3y ago
  I think the last draft is under https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CONSIL:ST_15698_2022_INIT&qid=1683901623610 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CONS... (starting with p. 59, the text before is the rationale memo) and the document you linked are the latest amendments suggested to it.

jiggywiggy 3y ago

The problem with this type of regulation is that you need to add huge amount of vagueness in the law to be future proof. Leading to huge amounts of uncertainty for companies, unnecessary red tape and higher legal fees. As well as giving the power to a judge to punish companies if the public sentiment goes negative.

sambeau 3y ago
Laws can be iterated on. Uncertainty, red tape and legal fees all seem like worth-while brakes on a potentially dangerous industry. Better to be safe than sorry.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > Laws can be iterated on. For Americans, this concept seems to be almost alien given the (at least from an European POV) more or less constant gridlock between House, Senate, Presidency and whatever the 50 states make out of that regarding enforcement. Or, to put it differently, they prefer the Wild West and barely self-regulated markets because they have completely lost any trust in government to create and modernize laws - a viewpoint that does make sense given the ridiculous age of key players in Congress. Feinstein is 90 years old, both likely Presidential candidates are over 75, Senators' median age is 65. How can anyone expect these people to even understand modern issues?! I think this is also the cause why so many American companies failed or have massive difficulties entering the European market. They simply cannot think that other countries have governments that actually govern and regulatory agencies that don't take it well if foreign companies try to buy their way out of trouble.
  - letmevoteplease 3y ago
    The design of the American system was always based on a distrust for power. The gridlock is the point. Not my favorite person but Scalia put it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggz_gd--UO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggz_gd--UO0
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      Eventually though it leads to a situation where no one has any trust left in government, which is extremely dangerous from a democracy perspective - it breeds resentment, splintering/secession and people taking the law into their own hands (or to put it bluntly, shooting at everything they deem a threat - including children playing hide-and-seek [1]). That's also the reason why there are so many doomsday preppers in the USA vs. everywhere else on the planet that isn't an active warzone. These people simply don't trust the government to keep them alive in a time of crisis. [1] https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/05/09/louisiana-man-shoots-14-year-old-girl-hide-and-seek/70198318007/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/05/09/louisia...
      - zeroonetwothree 3y ago
        the US has more of a culture of self sufficiency. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It also has higher incomes that allow for such types of frivolous spending
        mschuster91 3y ago
        > It also has higher incomes that allow for such types of frivolous spending We have the same net income as the Americans in Europe (ludicrous tech salaries aside), we simply pay collectively with our taxes for stuff that Americans have to pay for on their own, first and foremost healthcare and retirement.
      - logicchains 3y ago
        > extremely dangerous from a democracy perspective How is it extremely dangerous? Over a hundred million people died in the 20th century from trusting their government too much, nothing compares to that.
- dantheman 3y ago
  How's the cookie banner going?
  - smarx007 3y ago
    On its way to the dumpster: https://noyb.eu/en/data-protection-authorities-support-noybs-call-fair-yesno-cookie-banners https://noyb.eu/en/data-protection-authorities-support-noybs... https://noyb.eu/en/noyb-aims-end-cookie-banner-terror-and-issues-more-500-gdpr-complaints https://noyb.eu/en/noyb-aims-end-cookie-banner-terror-and-is... Donate to NOYB if you can.
- jiggywiggy 3y ago
  It's hard to find the line between better safe then sorry. On the surface level you are right. But look at the cost of medicine development, it has exponentially risen to billions in the last decades, stifling innovation. And although it maybe got a bit safer, it didn't get exponentially safer.
smarx007 3y ago
TÜV certification is the red tape I want. Just how in the North America people respect appliances with UL marking. But regarding the uncertainty, I agree with you. And I guess, it's inevitable given the pace of change and innovation. I am expecting more ISO standards to be created and updated in response to the AI Act, which will limit the uncertainty to some extent.

eimrine 3y ago

> Did you actually read the proposed text of the AI act? Are these 140 pages [1] the proposed text? [1] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2014_2019/plmrep/COMMITTEES/CJ40/DV/2023/05-11/ConsolidatedCA_IMCOLIBE_AI_ACT_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2014_2019/plmrep/COM...

smarx007 3y ago
I think the last draft is under https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CONSIL:ST_15698_2022_INIT&qid=1683901623610 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CONS... (starting with p. 59, the text before is the rationale memo) and the document you linked are the latest amendments suggested to it.