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I really wish the New York Times would stop this anti-market, anti-labor spin. An article about a talent 'shortage' that mentions workers being compelled to wor

I really wish the New York Times would stop this anti-market, anti-labor spin. An article about a talent 'shortage' that mentions workers being compelled to work long hours deep into the night for modest wages. There are no shortages in a free market - just cheapskates.

js8 3y ago
The idea of "free market" (it's only a model, not reality) has an explicit anti-labor bias. The apple doesn't care about its price, but the worker does; this why it's nonsensical to treat both as commodities. But if the price of labor is determined by a divine entity (the market forces), rather than other people (capitalists), what can you do about it? Are you gonna argue with the God of invisible hand?
- Convolutional 3y ago
  > Are you gonna argue with the God of invisible hand? Especially when you consider modern talk of the invisible hand, and then go back to Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations and see his one reference to the invisible hand in the book is of something that is against free trade between nations.
riffraff 3y ago
But the labour market is artificially constrained by government policy relative to immigration. If you already have full occupation and you cannot import workers you will have shortages no matter how much you get paid, people will not get a 5y degree in one month no matter how much you pay.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  Step one is drawing in workers from other companies that are not willing to pay more. In theory we could reach a point where all the workers are doing so well that even large pay won't draw them in. But companies don't wait to get anywhere near that point to start complaining about how they "can't" hire.
chasil 3y ago
Taiwan expects their engineers to work 60+ hour weeks. Of course they are running short. This is practically slave labor. TSMC will demand unbelievable things of a Ph.D. I cannot understand why there are any employees at all, but for love of the subject. Read this. Read the whole thing. This is unbelievable. Maybe it is an artifact of China; I don't know. "We all take two years to develop one generation, how come you guys can do it in one or one-and-a-half year?" And they asked if some of your customer transfer technology to you or what not? And I told him, "No," I told him that, "That's not true." I think he probably implied we steal technology from customer, the way he talk. And I say, "I'll tell you why." I said that, "When we develop one node, basically you have some learning cycles. First, you do some simulation. And you have some idea, then you run wafers to prove that. So, you run a group of wafers according to simulation and you have some splits. The wafer runs through the fab, they come out and you measure them, you analyze them, and you try to improve and you run this again. This again, you run. So, this is learning cycle." At that time, "It takes about six learning cycle, roughly, to complete one generation." Of course, you had some short loops and not just one. I said that, "My R&D wafer in the fab run much faster than yours, because my R&D engineer works three shifts and you only work one shift. So, your R&D wafer move eight hours a day, my work/move 24-hours a day. So, my wafers go three times faster, even if you are twice smarter than me, I still beat you up." <laughter> https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102792671 https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/10279267...
- melagonster 3y ago
  because they offer crazy salary in Taiwan. most of engineering will leave when they earned enough money and work in small company.
  - ftxbro 3y ago
    I also heard that in Taiwan there is a lot of social prestige in working in semiconductors, like as much or more than FAANG (or whatever that's called now) or finance or university professor in US. In US there is not that same prestige for semiconductors.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
RealityVoid 3y ago
> There are no shortages in a free market - just cheapskates. This is absurd, of course there are shortages. Sometimes, there is not enough of something for all you want to do, sure, some can buy their way out of it, but not all can.

js8 3y ago

The idea of "free market" (it's only a model, not reality) has an explicit anti-labor bias. The apple doesn't care about its price, but the worker does; this why it's nonsensical to treat both as commodities. But if the price of labor is determined by a divine entity (the market forces), rather than other people (capitalists), what can you do about it? Are you gonna argue with the God of invisible hand?

Convolutional 3y ago
> Are you gonna argue with the God of invisible hand? Especially when you consider modern talk of the invisible hand, and then go back to Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations and see his one reference to the invisible hand in the book is of something that is against free trade between nations.

riffraff 3y ago

But the labour market is artificially constrained by government policy relative to immigration. If you already have full occupation and you cannot import workers you will have shortages no matter how much you get paid, people will not get a 5y degree in one month no matter how much you pay.

Dylan16807 3y ago
Step one is drawing in workers from other companies that are not willing to pay more. In theory we could reach a point where all the workers are doing so well that even large pay won't draw them in. But companies don't wait to get anywhere near that point to start complaining about how they "can't" hire.

chasil 3y ago

Taiwan expects their engineers to work 60+ hour weeks. Of course they are running short. This is practically slave labor. TSMC will demand unbelievable things of a Ph.D. I cannot understand why there are any employees at all, but for love of the subject. Read this. Read the whole thing. This is unbelievable. Maybe it is an artifact of China; I don't know. "We all take two years to develop one generation, how come you guys can do it in one or one-and-a-half year?" And they asked if some of your customer transfer technology to you or what not? And I told him, "No," I told him that, "That's not true." I think he probably implied we steal technology from customer, the way he talk. And I say, "I'll tell you why." I said that, "When we develop one node, basically you have some learning cycles. First, you do some simulation. And you have some idea, then you run wafers to prove that. So, you run a group of wafers according to simulation and you have some splits. The wafer runs through the fab, they come out and you measure them, you analyze them, and you try to improve and you run this again. This again, you run. So, this is learning cycle." At that time, "It takes about six learning cycle, roughly, to complete one generation." Of course, you had some short loops and not just one. I said that, "My R&D wafer in the fab run much faster than yours, because my R&D engineer works three shifts and you only work one shift. So, your R&D wafer move eight hours a day, my work/move 24-hours a day. So, my wafers go three times faster, even if you are twice smarter than me, I still beat you up." <laughter> https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102792671 https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/10279267...

melagonster 3y ago
because they offer crazy salary in Taiwan. most of engineering will leave when they earned enough money and work in small company.
- ftxbro 3y ago
  I also heard that in Taiwan there is a lot of social prestige in working in semiconductors, like as much or more than FAANG (or whatever that's called now) or finance or university professor in US. In US there is not that same prestige for semiconductors.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

RealityVoid 3y ago

> There are no shortages in a free market - just cheapskates. This is absurd, of course there are shortages. Sometimes, there is not enough of something for all you want to do, sure, some can buy their way out of it, but not all can.