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“A major factor contributing to low pay rates is that this work involves spending significant amounts of time waiting or looking for work while logged on to a p

“A major factor contributing to low pay rates is that this work involves spending significant amounts of time waiting or looking for work while logged on to a platform.” Well sure, if you include time not working in the denominator, the pay rate is going to be low! Seems like the title should read that gig workers would make more nominal dollars if they spent their time waiting for gig work working a minimum wage job…

gbanfalvi 3y ago
> Well sure, if you include time not working in the denominator, the pay rate is going to be low! So dragging around tickets in Jira and taking the next one off the backlog isn't working either?
- refulgentis 3y ago
  Are you paid during it? Usually, that's a full-time job, i.e not compensated hourly. Alternatively, if you're not paid...I haven't heard of an employer only compensating for typing into Jira but not dragging tickets. Is there another analogy familiar to us, where we're blocked on waiting for an employer to find us work, and we're not paid during it?
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    > Usually, that's a full-time job, i.e not compensated hourly. This is the subject being discussed. Appealing to current labor conventions doesn't make any sense when talking about the problems with current labor conventions. You might as well say that tipped employees shouldn't be paid minimum wage because the rules for tipped employment allow you to pay them less than minimum wage.
  - bcrosby95 3y ago
    A full time job doesn't mean you're salary. When I worked at Macy's I was still paid when I was not helping a customer or managing stock. I was also paid for simply being there if I were needed.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
malcolmgreaves 3y ago
Should you be paid to be on-call?
- NeoTar 3y ago
  Yes. Maybe not at your full rate, any maybe implicitly as a part of your work contract (you are paid XX for YY hours and ZZ hours on call) but 100 times yes. Anything which an employer asks you to do is work. All work should be compensated for. This include travel required for work, training courses, time spent waiting for work where you are not completely free to engage in what you'd prefer to do.
  - balderdash 3y ago
    So there should only be one model of employee compensation? In this case a time based model? Also aren’t gig workers free to do whatever they like while they are waiting for work?
HDThoreaun 3y ago
Waiting for a ride is part of the job.
danparsonson 3y ago
> Seems like the title should read that gig workers would make more nominal dollars if they spent their time waiting for gig work working a minimum wage job… So... halfway through making a burger they drop what they're doing to go pick up their next Uber passenger? Waiting for the next job is dead time if you have no idea how long you'll have to wait and limited or no choice about when it will start. Edit to clarify: the point is that in this case you're on the clock whether you are nominally 'working' or not - it's still work time.
klyrs 3y ago
If they were working in retail, they'd be getting paid to stand around waiting for customers to arrive. Most employees are paid for downtime resulting from slack in demand for their services.
- jjk166 3y ago
  They'ed be paid if they were on the premises and doing things their employer permitted. Generally they'ed be required to clock out if they wanted to say take a smoke break, or run some personal errands, or take a nap. Hell they won't even generally get paid for the time they spend commuting to work and similar activities that are in practice necessary for the job but during which they are not at the employer's command. There are jobs where you need warm bodies and you are paying for availability. If you hire a security guard, you're hoping you never need them to do their job, but you're paying them to be there in case they are needed. If a gig employer demanded your time regardless of whether or not you were doing a gig, of course they should be paying for your time. But a big part of gig work is that when you're not in the middle of a gig, you have no obligations - you can sit around waiting for the next job, or you can do something else.
- balderdash 3y ago
  You mean if they took a job that paid by the hour?! Yeah they would be paid for their time, or they’d be put to work doing some other menial task. But they didn’t sign up for an hourly wage - so either a) they value the flexibility to use their time in between assignments as they choose. Or b) they misjudged their economic earning ability in the gig economy
davisoneee 3y ago
...and how do you imagine they do that (spend their time waiting for gig work by working minimum wage)? Work at McDonalds, and then walk out to go do an uber run? It's often claimed that the flexibility of gig work benefits workers to 'top up' their wages...but the reality is that companies push this work, and it just ends up with workers earning less than minimum wage, because rather than companies paying you for the 'between time', you now end up earning nothing. Much like other commenters say, should you get paid for the Jira ticket, or just the coding work? Gig work suggests just the actual coding.
- balderdash 3y ago
  Doing whatever they want that’s the point - you can either A) commit to a fixed wage rate per hour regardless of how much actual work you do (working at McDonald’s when it’s slow or busy) or B) effectively commit to knit rate pricing with variable volume (if volumes are low you make less then if you had worked at McDonald’s, if volumes are high you probability make more) and receive the added to benefit of choosing when you are working, and what to do in your down time.
matsemann 3y ago
Being available for work is working. A bartender at a quiet bar is still at work. Or should they only get paid while pouring a drink?
- balderdash 3y ago
  It’s clearly not. It’s only working to the extent you’ve contracted with your employer that you are trading your time and willingness to work for compensation e.g. salary or hourly wage. There are plenty of jobs that have different labor arrangements: commission only (real estate agents), piecework (home cleaners), unit rate rate (truckers), to name a few… is a real estate agent who’s sitting in their backyard working because technically they’re available to go show a house if you call?
sd9 3y ago
But like... how could that be done, practically?

gbanfalvi 3y ago

> Well sure, if you include time not working in the denominator, the pay rate is going to be low! So dragging around tickets in Jira and taking the next one off the backlog isn't working either?

refulgentis 3y ago
Are you paid during it? Usually, that's a full-time job, i.e not compensated hourly. Alternatively, if you're not paid...I haven't heard of an employer only compensating for typing into Jira but not dragging tickets. Is there another analogy familiar to us, where we're blocked on waiting for an employer to find us work, and we're not paid during it?
- pessimizer 3y ago
  > Usually, that's a full-time job, i.e not compensated hourly. This is the subject being discussed. Appealing to current labor conventions doesn't make any sense when talking about the problems with current labor conventions. You might as well say that tipped employees shouldn't be paid minimum wage because the rules for tipped employment allow you to pay them less than minimum wage.
- bcrosby95 3y ago
  A full time job doesn't mean you're salary. When I worked at Macy's I was still paid when I was not helping a customer or managing stock. I was also paid for simply being there if I were needed.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

malcolmgreaves 3y ago

Should you be paid to be on-call?

NeoTar 3y ago
Yes. Maybe not at your full rate, any maybe implicitly as a part of your work contract (you are paid XX for YY hours and ZZ hours on call) but 100 times yes. Anything which an employer asks you to do is work. All work should be compensated for. This include travel required for work, training courses, time spent waiting for work where you are not completely free to engage in what you'd prefer to do.
- balderdash 3y ago
  So there should only be one model of employee compensation? In this case a time based model? Also aren’t gig workers free to do whatever they like while they are waiting for work?

HDThoreaun 3y ago

Waiting for a ride is part of the job.

danparsonson 3y ago

> Seems like the title should read that gig workers would make more nominal dollars if they spent their time waiting for gig work working a minimum wage job… So... halfway through making a burger they drop what they're doing to go pick up their next Uber passenger? Waiting for the next job is dead time if you have no idea how long you'll have to wait and limited or no choice about when it will start. Edit to clarify: the point is that in this case you're on the clock whether you are nominally 'working' or not - it's still work time.

klyrs 3y ago

If they were working in retail, they'd be getting paid to stand around waiting for customers to arrive. Most employees are paid for downtime resulting from slack in demand for their services.

jjk166 3y ago
They'ed be paid if they were on the premises and doing things their employer permitted. Generally they'ed be required to clock out if they wanted to say take a smoke break, or run some personal errands, or take a nap. Hell they won't even generally get paid for the time they spend commuting to work and similar activities that are in practice necessary for the job but during which they are not at the employer's command. There are jobs where you need warm bodies and you are paying for availability. If you hire a security guard, you're hoping you never need them to do their job, but you're paying them to be there in case they are needed. If a gig employer demanded your time regardless of whether or not you were doing a gig, of course they should be paying for your time. But a big part of gig work is that when you're not in the middle of a gig, you have no obligations - you can sit around waiting for the next job, or you can do something else.
balderdash 3y ago
You mean if they took a job that paid by the hour?! Yeah they would be paid for their time, or they’d be put to work doing some other menial task. But they didn’t sign up for an hourly wage - so either a) they value the flexibility to use their time in between assignments as they choose. Or b) they misjudged their economic earning ability in the gig economy

davisoneee 3y ago

...and how do you imagine they do that (spend their time waiting for gig work by working minimum wage)? Work at McDonalds, and then walk out to go do an uber run? It's often claimed that the flexibility of gig work benefits workers to 'top up' their wages...but the reality is that companies push this work, and it just ends up with workers earning less than minimum wage, because rather than companies paying you for the 'between time', you now end up earning nothing. Much like other commenters say, should you get paid for the Jira ticket, or just the coding work? Gig work suggests just the actual coding.

balderdash 3y ago
Doing whatever they want that’s the point - you can either A) commit to a fixed wage rate per hour regardless of how much actual work you do (working at McDonald’s when it’s slow or busy) or B) effectively commit to knit rate pricing with variable volume (if volumes are low you make less then if you had worked at McDonald’s, if volumes are high you probability make more) and receive the added to benefit of choosing when you are working, and what to do in your down time.

matsemann 3y ago

Being available for work is working. A bartender at a quiet bar is still at work. Or should they only get paid while pouring a drink?

balderdash 3y ago
It’s clearly not. It’s only working to the extent you’ve contracted with your employer that you are trading your time and willingness to work for compensation e.g. salary or hourly wage. There are plenty of jobs that have different labor arrangements: commission only (real estate agents), piecework (home cleaners), unit rate rate (truckers), to name a few… is a real estate agent who’s sitting in their backyard working because technically they’re available to go show a house if you call?

sd9 3y ago

But like... how could that be done, practically?