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Kiss your free returns goodbye
- jfengel 4y agoI'm shocked they lasted this long. It was obviously ripe for abuse. The question is whether brick-and-mortar stores will be able to recover, since that's an advantage they offer.
- ikt 4y agoyou guys got free returns? in australia it's always been pay the return shipping fee as far as i know
- Hamuko 4y agoIn Finland it's a mixed bag. Some offer it, some don't. I think the worst is when I'm asked to pay for shipping when it's a broken product covered under warranty.
- cr1895 4y agoI don’t think that’s allowed in the EU - retailers must remedy or replace a broken product without cost to you. https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers...
- Hamuko 3y agoI'll have to keep that in mind the next time a company like Seagate insists that I pay to return a broken product under warranty.
- thrixton 3y agoI guess with the entrance of Amazon with Prime, this is becoming more normal now. A heap of the shoe brands / retailers at least have free returns and shipping (with minimum spend maybe though).
- balaji1 4y agoFree returns seems like a greedy and arrogant policy. I wish more people were surprised by the free return option; and refuse to buy relying on free returns. My state is that I end up buying very little. I even donate stuff I order without enough thought instead of free returns. Good point also about how various online ordering pushed brick-and-mortar beyond recovery; with many such loss-leading and predatory practices.
- jfengel 3y agoFree returns is kind of necessary when you're buying things sight unseen. Clothes may not fit; electronics may not be compatible; parts may not be appropriate. Obviously that's not everything. It may not even be most things. But it's way easier and more attractive to just say "order it first, then return what doesn't work". It works as long as most people aren't assholes about it. (It didn't help that there were assholes on the seller side, too. Yet another reason to return stuff was fakes, and Amazon decided it was easier to accept returns without complaint than to guarantee that you got what you ordered. Especially since many customers wouldn't notice.)
- emodendroket 4y agoWeren't they just throwing out many returns?
- hammyhavoc 4y agoYes, but anything of significant value has always been sold on customer return pallets in bulk.
- throw93 4y agoIt's interesting that this is happening when market is being consolidated in the hands of a handful of monopolies.
- rhtgrg 4y agoI learned the hard way that smaller vendors may have no clue what customer service is and in many cases will not stand by their own return policies -- the one I dealt with would not even let me return the item on my own dime suggesting that the item was 'used' (even after I told them they didn't have to process a refund until after inspecting the item). In the end I just had to do a chargeback, which I imagine is hurtful to their business. They just left me no choice.
- gnicholas 4y ago> Even Amazon started charging customers $1 for dropping packages at select UPS stores Really? I've never seen this. An issue I have encountered is that sometimes they don't offer UPS dropoff as an option, only a $7 UPS pickup or driving for an hour+ to go to an Amazon warehouse. Usually chatting with an agent will resolve this issue, but it's a PITA and shouldn't happen for an item with "Free Returns" "for any reason".
- thesumofall 4y agoMost discussions about this topic somehow seem to assume that people enjoy returning stuff. They don’t. It’s effort One of the key unresolved problems in fashion retail remains the crazy, unreliable sizing systems. Just because you are size $X at one brand, doesn’t mean you’re size $X at another. Also, the majority of brands only cater to average body proportions. Slim feet? Tall? Good luck!
- teambob 4y agoMy experience exactly
- pharmakom 4y agoI have noticed more stores giving actual garment measurements on their site (as opposed to a near meaningless size that is several inches off due to vanity sizing!)
- danpalmer 4y agoEven measurements aren’t really an accurate indicator for most garments. The manufacturing tolerances for anything below designed fashion are just too large. When stuff is hand made (by experts, not just for the marketing label of “hand made”) then they tend to be accurate enough, but the stuff most people buy in shops is never going to have a reliable fit unless the whole supply chain is overhauled. And that’s not to mention how for changes as the fabrics age and are washed. That’s a whole extra load of complexity. Edit, to give an illustrative example. When cutting out pieces for a garment, the cutting will typically be done on a band saw (or fabric cutting equivalent). For most garments the fabric will be stacked 10-20 sheets high so that many pieces are cut in one go. A person shoving 20 layers of fabric through a saw in a few seconds is never going to be accurate. Contrast this to a high end garment where it might be 2-5 layers carefully guided through a saw by someone who can take a minute to get it right, that’s just far more likely to hit the targets.
- thesumofall 4y agoThat explains a lot! Always wondered why even when given precise measurements garments would still be way off
- htag 4y agoIs the average online return rate really 15%-30%? What are people returning? My personal return rate is closer to 0.15%.
- Brotkrumen 4y agoImage you treat online shopping like brick and mortar: you want a jacket, you pick 3 or 4 that you like, you go to the changing room, try them on and return the jackets you don't like.
- Epskampie 4y agoClothes.
- MengerSponge 4y agoNot sure what size pants will fit you, so you buy a size up and a size down. Return the two that don't fit. We used to do this in fitting rooms, but free returns make your home the fitting room. Much more comfortable.
- danpalmer 4y agoIt varies wildly by product, industry, and gender. Electronics return rates are low, <5% I believe. I have a feeling books return rates are similarly very low. Clothing bought from brands is low, 5-10%, clothing bought from retailers is higher, 20-50%. Womenswear is much higher than menswear.
- expertentipp 4y agoNot at all in my case, even something around 20-30%. Why all trousers nowadays are so tight? Why every upper garment is so baggy? You know that sunglasses come in sizes? This smartphone absolutely does not look as in the marketing photos, it's all cheap plastic. American M, Italian M, and European M are completely different sizes.
- Broken_Hippo 4y agoAmerican M, Italian M, and European M are completely different sizes. I wish it were that simple. A European M is a different size between stores. Sometimes you get slightly different sizes between the same style garment, in the same color manufactured by the same company.
- readthenotes1 4y agoBorrowing clothes is definitely a thing among the women I've known (across generations). Buy it Thursday, wear it Saturday, return it Sunday.
- expertentipp 4y agoI live in EU country and confirm this is a thing among women. They use online returns to show off in something new that they cannot afford.
- CaliforniaKarl 4y agoWelp, that's really annoying on LL Bean's part. They don't have any stores in California, so I guess I won't be purchasing any size-dependent things from them. Honestly, for things that are sized, and how inconsistent sizes can be (even across multiple batches of one product), I would expect businesses to expect returns for wrong sizes. As an example, I recently purchased a hat from Goorin Bros.. I ordered two sizes, and returned the one did not fit. Doing the return was easy, using the box the hat originally came in. The hat was not cheap, but I expected that.
- ss1996 4y agoThe title had me thinking TurboTax lobbied some more, but it's not that kind of returns.
- slaymaker1907 4y agoI’m ok with this since it means people who rarely/never return something won’t have to subsidize those who do. How in the world are return rates 15-30%! The only way those kinds of rates make sense to me is if a product is just highly unreliable (as in, does not work at all). Yes, sizing varies for clothing, but this says to me people are being perfectionists when it comes to fit.
- FearNotDaniel 4y ago> this says to me people are being perfectionists when it comes to fit I guess this is one of those times when we have to recognize that humans are not a totally homogenous species with identical habits and desires. Believe it or not, there are many people in the world who couldn't care less which OS or text editor they use nor even how the configuration should be adjusted to suit their tastes and workflow. They would be absolutely mystified by all the discussion that goes on in these parts about different Linux flavours, tabs v spaces, vim v emacs etc etc. Now imagine that kind of complexity and nuance applied to products that you are relatively indifferent towards. There are thousands of people out there who care about every single detail about a piece of clothing, not just being the perfect fit (yes, that does matter to a lot of people, rather than "it'll do"), but also the exact colour, texture, fabric, stitching patterns, quality of manufacture, the style of the cut which may look good on a model on the website but just doesn't suit the person's own body at all. Have you ever wondered why so many people (often, but not exclusively women) can spend an entire day shopping for a single garment, visiting so many different stores, trying on so many apparently similar items before being satisfied with just one (and even then, sometimes still regretting the purchase afterwards). Buying clothes, for many people, requires trying on so many different alternatives and making a considered decision. And in all the details above, there is often a big difference between what is perceived from the website images vs the reality of the garment when it is held in the hands, examined in detail, tried on the individual person. "Free returns" has enabled a behaviour I have often seen in friends and family: order lots of different items with the clear intention of sending at least half of them back, perhaps more, knowing in advance due to the nature of online retail that at least some of those clothes will simply be disappointing when seen up close, others will be a terrible fit, and yet others will sort-of fit in a way that pleases many people but somehow doesn't yet feel right. They are using their homes as the changing room at the store. The paradigm is not "decide what to buy before ordering, choose only one item and only send it back if it is egregiously disappointing", rather "order a whole range of items to try on and assess, then keep only the ones that really please me." I'm not saying this is good or bad, simply trying to provide some explanation to address your "how in the world" question. Free returns has, until now, enabled this behaviour in consumers which probably drove a lot of growth among skeptical buyers by allowing them to mimic the live shopping experience (try on lots of stuff, keep only a few) at home. If this isn't economically viable, then I guess consumers who are now a lot more acclimatised to online clothes shopping will have to adjust having some of the risk and inconvenience pushed back in their direction. Or, they will choose stores that offer them the service they have become used to while other consumers like you will probably choose a different retailer with lower prices overall but a stricter return policy. Or someone will invent some new kind of financial model, like an opt-in "returns insurance" or Prime-style subscription fee that allows unlimited "free" returns only for those customers who value that experience. Who knows? It's a shift in the market which as ever will be fun to watch.
- irrational 4y agoRecently I needed a pair of pants for an event. I ordered about 10 pairs in different sizes and styles from Amazon, knowing I would be returning most or all of them. It was nice being able to try them on at home with my wife telling me her thoughts. I ended up keeping one pair and returning the rest. But, this only works with free and easy returns.
- ag_hn 4y agoThis trend could inadvertently play into the hands of giants like Amazon with Prime, Walmart with W+, and Costco, who can afford to offer free returns as part of their subscription packages. Not only does this keep their customers happy, but it also helps track potential return abusers more efficiently.