4 ms·

US senators call Tesla’s safety review a “sham,” demand answers from Musk

17 points by clouddrover 3y ago

givemeethekeys 3y ago
The senators in question: - Richard Blumenthal - Edward J. Markey - Elizabeth Warren - Richard J. Durbin - Sherrod Brown - Jeffrey A. Merkley - Bernard Sanders Why are they resorting to a shaming strategy? Why not let the FTC investigate and lay massive charges if illegal?
- Laaas 3y ago
  Probably because it isn't? Tesla (and Musk) may have their issues, but safety likely isn't one of them. The core of the complaint seems to be "racial slurs "as often as 50 to 100 times" daily" and arbitration.
- kadoban 3y ago
  > Why are they resorting to a shaming strategy? Why not let the FTC investigate and lay massive charges if illegal? Probably because they don't control the FTC, and they want something done.
- TheAlchemist 3y ago
  Maybe they realized that there is something seriously wrong with Tesla business practices ? I love what Tesla did for electric vehicles, but FSD promises are bullshit, and they have been far more than just 'too optimistic' - including their published FSD accident rates comparison vs human drivers - based on a completely biased data.
setr 3y ago
These senators have no actual authority to make these requests, right? They’re really just asking and assigning deadlines that can’t be followed up with any kind of punitive measures? Are they any more relevant than a random redditor demanding the same? This seems really weird
- SilverBirch 3y ago
  What's really happening here is they're just using their bully pulpit as senators, but technically they could have a congressional hearing, invite Musk, subpoena him and find him in contempt if he doesn't turn up or lies. That won't happen though.
- salawat 3y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress There is very little judicial relief for Contempt of Congress, and it is a crime against the United States as a whole. If you aren't the President (who is currently protected by executive privilege, which I personally think is an absolutely terrible idea), you can not only be imprisoned by the Sergeant-at-Arms. Continued willful non-compliance can be referred to the Department of Justice. Also, while unlikely, there is also the possibility of pissing off enough of both Houses of Congress that they can muster a bicameral supermajority to custom tailor legislation just for you, which would be veto proof and carry force of law. You'd have to exceedingly piss off a lot of Congresspeople to an absurd degree, however. Though it must be carefully done to avoid the Constitutional prohibition on Bills of Attainder. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder I.e. there will likely be Judicial due process involved. However, again, the Congresses's discretion in Contempt of Congress is given a wide berth by the Judiciary. Long story short: Wasting Congress's time excessively is a federal crime, can come with infinite detention, and is just very widely considered damn poor form. There's also the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_of_the_United_States_Ho... Which looks like it'd hurt like a bitch.
IntelMiner 3y ago
Perhaps Elon's lawyers will reply with a "poop emoji" or say that the damage was "deepfaked" or some other nonsense The clown seems eternally convinced he can end-run around regulations while pocketing billions from the government pocket. To steal a phrase from existential comics [1] he's the villain from Atlas Shrugged [1] https://existentialcomics.com/comic/other/17 https://existentialcomics.com/comic/other/17
fooker 3y ago
Since when does US senators 'demand answers' from business owners? We have several three letter agencies to distribute the balance of power here.
- SilverBirch 3y ago
  Since the creation of congress? Congressional hearings happen all the time.
  - fooker 3y ago
    This was done outside of a formal hearing.
    - salawat 3y ago
      Doesn't matter. Legislative business. Most people would get a question from a Representative or Senator and Make Time because one of the best ways to ensure your life is made miserable in the future is to give Congress a reason to scrutinize you. It is the Federal Congress. Ya know, those people who regulate Interstate Commerce? The ones who can make and unmake entire Executive Agencies give the political wherewithal? Frankly, seeing Congress start getting off it's laurels and starting to do it's job is kinda refreshing.
      - Kon-Peki 3y ago
        The OP was asking how a group of Senators can demand answers by just writing a letter to someone. The actual letter, linked to in the article, says "We respectfully request a written response to the following questions by June 8, 2023:". So not really a "demand", right? Like Ars just made that part up to create a more clickbaity title? I think we all agree that the Congress has the authority to create committees to conduct investigations, and those committees can definitely make demands for information that you must respond to. But if some random Senator that is not acting on behalf of a committee sends you a letter with some questions, do you really have to answer if you don't feel like it? I'd ask a lawyer, because I spent a few minutes googling and didn't find anything useful.

17 points by clouddrover 3y ago

The senators in question: - Richard Blumenthal - Edward J. Markey - Elizabeth Warren - Richard J. Durbin - Sherrod Brown - Jeffrey A. Merkley - Bernard Sanders Why are they resorting to a shaming strategy? Why not let the FTC investigate and lay massive charges if illegal?

Laaas 3y ago
Probably because it isn't? Tesla (and Musk) may have their issues, but safety likely isn't one of them. The core of the complaint seems to be "racial slurs "as often as 50 to 100 times" daily" and arbitration.
kadoban 3y ago
> Why are they resorting to a shaming strategy? Why not let the FTC investigate and lay massive charges if illegal? Probably because they don't control the FTC, and they want something done.
TheAlchemist 3y ago
Maybe they realized that there is something seriously wrong with Tesla business practices ? I love what Tesla did for electric vehicles, but FSD promises are bullshit, and they have been far more than just 'too optimistic' - including their published FSD accident rates comparison vs human drivers - based on a completely biased data.

setr 3y ago

These senators have no actual authority to make these requests, right? They’re really just asking and assigning deadlines that can’t be followed up with any kind of punitive measures? Are they any more relevant than a random redditor demanding the same? This seems really weird

SilverBirch 3y ago
What's really happening here is they're just using their bully pulpit as senators, but technically they could have a congressional hearing, invite Musk, subpoena him and find him in contempt if he doesn't turn up or lies. That won't happen though.
salawat 3y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress There is very little judicial relief for Contempt of Congress, and it is a crime against the United States as a whole. If you aren't the President (who is currently protected by executive privilege, which I personally think is an absolutely terrible idea), you can not only be imprisoned by the Sergeant-at-Arms. Continued willful non-compliance can be referred to the Department of Justice. Also, while unlikely, there is also the possibility of pissing off enough of both Houses of Congress that they can muster a bicameral supermajority to custom tailor legislation just for you, which would be veto proof and carry force of law. You'd have to exceedingly piss off a lot of Congresspeople to an absurd degree, however. Though it must be carefully done to avoid the Constitutional prohibition on Bills of Attainder. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder I.e. there will likely be Judicial due process involved. However, again, the Congresses's discretion in Contempt of Congress is given a wide berth by the Judiciary. Long story short: Wasting Congress's time excessively is a federal crime, can come with infinite detention, and is just very widely considered damn poor form. There's also the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_of_the_United_States_Ho... Which looks like it'd hurt like a bitch.

IntelMiner 3y ago

Perhaps Elon's lawyers will reply with a "poop emoji" or say that the damage was "deepfaked" or some other nonsense The clown seems eternally convinced he can end-run around regulations while pocketing billions from the government pocket. To steal a phrase from existential comics [1] he's the villain from Atlas Shrugged [1] https://existentialcomics.com/comic/other/17 https://existentialcomics.com/comic/other/17

fooker 3y ago

Since when does US senators 'demand answers' from business owners? We have several three letter agencies to distribute the balance of power here.

SilverBirch 3y ago
Since the creation of congress? Congressional hearings happen all the time.
- fooker 3y ago
  This was done outside of a formal hearing.
  - salawat 3y ago
    Doesn't matter. Legislative business. Most people would get a question from a Representative or Senator and Make Time because one of the best ways to ensure your life is made miserable in the future is to give Congress a reason to scrutinize you. It is the Federal Congress. Ya know, those people who regulate Interstate Commerce? The ones who can make and unmake entire Executive Agencies give the political wherewithal? Frankly, seeing Congress start getting off it's laurels and starting to do it's job is kinda refreshing.
    - Kon-Peki 3y ago
      The OP was asking how a group of Senators can demand answers by just writing a letter to someone. The actual letter, linked to in the article, says "We respectfully request a written response to the following questions by June 8, 2023:". So not really a "demand", right? Like Ars just made that part up to create a more clickbaity title? I think we all agree that the Congress has the authority to create committees to conduct investigations, and those committees can definitely make demands for information that you must respond to. But if some random Senator that is not acting on behalf of a committee sends you a letter with some questions, do you really have to answer if you don't feel like it? I'd ask a lawyer, because I spent a few minutes googling and didn't find anything useful.