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Having grown up in America and moved to Czechia for college I have to say that I was absolutely shocked by the level of cheating both by Czechs as well as those

Having grown up in America and moved to Czechia for college I have to say that I was absolutely shocked by the level of cheating both by Czechs as well as those from "farther east" like Ukraine and Russia. Just brazen obvious sheeting like taking notes into exams and hiding them. Cooperating during exams. Even collaboration to distract the teacher during exams. When I was at college in the US getting caught cheating once meant an instant fail for the course. Twice meant you were kicked out of school and you'd have a cheating mark added to your credit transfer paper so you couldn't move your college credits elsewhere. In Czechia, getting caught cheating meant having to re-take the test. Nothing bad happened to cheaters and they cheated rampantly.

jagtstronaut 3y ago
I'm gonna have to go with scarface on this one. While your statements could very well be true, it is dangerous to make cultural generalizations without the data to back it.
- wanttocomment 3y ago
  What kind of "data" would you accept for this? Crime data by demographic? Scarface just said "can't generalize to everyone" which is true and not the original point made.
nosianu 3y ago
This contradicts what we read here about cheating being very often tolerated in higher education institutions in the US, because money. Usually I try including at least a few links, but in this case I think anybody who has read these threads right here on HN should remember those numerous posts and discussions? I remember comments from educators who wanted to do something but the higher-ups prevented it, for example, or reversed the decision. Unfortunately I don't know what to search for to find these kinds of comments again. EDIT: Found one very quickly after just a little cross-reading of one cheating related thread, the reply to this linked comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32533086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32533086 Quote: > The amount of cheating was insane. He started academic dishonesty proceedings against many of the students but the department pressured him to "work it out." It's not just the students either: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryancraig/2019/06/21/americas-lying-and-cheating-universities/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryancraig/2019/06/21/americas-l...
- wavefunction 3y ago
  Cheating might be tolerated more in the US if the student is wealthy, which might be a US student or far more likely the scion of some family in a foreign country. It has not been tolerated anywhere I've attended though.
- trgn 3y ago
  Two things can be true at the same time. There is a lot of cheating in america, but nowhere near as much as in low-trust countries. fwiw - I think Americans value integrity a lot more than most other places, and academic cheating is not nearly as common.
  - nosianu 3y ago
    > Two things can be true at the same time. Of course, but the commenter I replied to made a specific statement, first sentence, making it sound to my reading - and I don't think I'm reading something into it that isn't meant to be there? - as if it's a lot less in the US. But even a little bit of searching, and every single time the topic comes up here, which usually is for higher education so I'm not making any statement about anything below, ends up with a lot of comments, and no opposition to them, saying there is a lot of cheating there. Examples: https://academicintegrity.org/resources/facts-and-statistics https://academicintegrity.org/resources/facts-and-statistics > McCabe’s original research and subsequent follow-up studies show that more than 60 percent of university students freely admit to cheating in some form. https://proctoredu.com/blog/tpost/5dk67zrns1-academic-dishonesty-statistics https://proctoredu.com/blog/tpost/5dk67zrns1-academic-dishon... > The level of cheating in high school according to statistics is extremely high. One of the most thorough studies, carried out by Dr. Donald McCabe, reveals that about 95% of polled students (both undergraduates and graduates) admitted to having cheated in some form. https://www.npr.org/2021/08/27/1031255390/reports-of-cheating-at-colleges-soar-during-the-pandemic https://www.npr.org/2021/08/27/1031255390/reports-of-cheatin... Therefore, it surprised my that the original commenter made such a strong statement.
    - trgn 3y ago
      thx for clarification and added links, will read up.

jagtstronaut 3y ago

I'm gonna have to go with scarface on this one. While your statements could very well be true, it is dangerous to make cultural generalizations without the data to back it.

wanttocomment 3y ago
What kind of "data" would you accept for this? Crime data by demographic? Scarface just said "can't generalize to everyone" which is true and not the original point made.

nosianu 3y ago

This contradicts what we read here about cheating being very often tolerated in higher education institutions in the US, because money. Usually I try including at least a few links, but in this case I think anybody who has read these threads right here on HN should remember those numerous posts and discussions? I remember comments from educators who wanted to do something but the higher-ups prevented it, for example, or reversed the decision. Unfortunately I don't know what to search for to find these kinds of comments again. EDIT: Found one very quickly after just a little cross-reading of one cheating related thread, the reply to this linked comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32533086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32533086 Quote: > The amount of cheating was insane. He started academic dishonesty proceedings against many of the students but the department pressured him to "work it out." It's not just the students either: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryancraig/2019/06/21/americas-lying-and-cheating-universities/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryancraig/2019/06/21/americas-l...

wavefunction 3y ago
Cheating might be tolerated more in the US if the student is wealthy, which might be a US student or far more likely the scion of some family in a foreign country. It has not been tolerated anywhere I've attended though.
trgn 3y ago
Two things can be true at the same time. There is a lot of cheating in america, but nowhere near as much as in low-trust countries. fwiw - I think Americans value integrity a lot more than most other places, and academic cheating is not nearly as common.
- nosianu 3y ago
  > Two things can be true at the same time. Of course, but the commenter I replied to made a specific statement, first sentence, making it sound to my reading - and I don't think I'm reading something into it that isn't meant to be there? - as if it's a lot less in the US. But even a little bit of searching, and every single time the topic comes up here, which usually is for higher education so I'm not making any statement about anything below, ends up with a lot of comments, and no opposition to them, saying there is a lot of cheating there. Examples: https://academicintegrity.org/resources/facts-and-statistics https://academicintegrity.org/resources/facts-and-statistics > McCabe’s original research and subsequent follow-up studies show that more than 60 percent of university students freely admit to cheating in some form. https://proctoredu.com/blog/tpost/5dk67zrns1-academic-dishonesty-statistics https://proctoredu.com/blog/tpost/5dk67zrns1-academic-dishon... > The level of cheating in high school according to statistics is extremely high. One of the most thorough studies, carried out by Dr. Donald McCabe, reveals that about 95% of polled students (both undergraduates and graduates) admitted to having cheated in some form. https://www.npr.org/2021/08/27/1031255390/reports-of-cheating-at-colleges-soar-during-the-pandemic https://www.npr.org/2021/08/27/1031255390/reports-of-cheatin... Therefore, it surprised my that the original commenter made such a strong statement.
  - trgn 3y ago
    thx for clarification and added links, will read up.