6 ms·

If anyone thinks for a second that this is done for the children, maybe stop and think to yourself why the government is so overly authoritarian and why they se

If anyone thinks for a second that this is done for the children, maybe stop and think to yourself why the government is so overly authoritarian and why they seek to monitor and control your life in all facets. Secondly, why shouldn't teenagers have access to pornography (which isn't even the case here)? Did the people who grew up with nude magazines, cable pornography... grow up to be dysfunctional members of society? Interest in it is a normal healthy thing, and if you're really worried about it, you as a parent should be the one to do something about it, not the government, because you'll reach a point in time where they are the ones saying how you should and shouldn't raise your kids. Use the tools given to you as a parent and block your children from accessing certain sites, talk to them, and maybe parent a bit instead of letting a computer or tv educate them for you. Also note that I'm not saying that you should monitor them 24/7. If you have a good relationship with your kid/s, if you give them just enough freedom to grow, and more importantly, if you know who they are, maybe you can trust them a bit to make decisions for themselves as they grow.

doublerabbit 3y ago
[flagged]
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  A wise man said regarding pornography: "the problem is not that pornography shows too much of a person, but that it shows too little."
- davidguetta 3y ago
  This is nothing but an opinion. Most people who are pro this law think the same thing of vanilla porn that you think about bdsm and fisting. And for the extreme case, some of them think the same about basic nudity even when not sexual. And worse, the most extreme think that women should not even show their face in public. It's just a degree of rejection of the sexuality of the human as a taboo, which seems to me nothing but cultural. I'm yet to see a compelling argument that "children shouldn't have access to porn". Not that i particularly think they should have access and I'm actually fine with the 'not under 18' rule for the sake of the "Chesterton Fence" argument, but I'm yet to see an explanation that make a vague sense to me.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > This is nothing but an opinion. If you want to be technical about it, "murder is wrong" is also "nothing but an opinion."
    - davidguetta 3y ago
      Well the point is that murder have practical and measurable consequences whereas the effect of "porn accessible" vs "no sex to be ever seen on screen before 18" for teenager is not universally accepted.
  - doublerabbit 3y ago
    Typical I get flagged. --- > why shouldn't teenagers have access to pornography (which isn't even the case here)? Did the people who grew up with nude magazines, cable pornography... grow up to be dysfunctional members of society? Teenagers nowadays are getting access to all types of pornography and some of which shouldn't really be viewed until you really are an adult. BDSM, Fisting et cetera are not content genres that a 16 year old should be able to access. You didn't find those in magazines on the top shelf. Soft and hard core genres have all been made accessible on the same shelf and that itself has some very detrimental psychological effects on the developing mind. Porn doesn't show real life at all. The relationship, bonding, spiritually are never depicted. Pain is treated as pleasure, the list is endless. All in all is that porn is just another type of movie genre; and like all movies, are fake. Pornography addiction is real and warps the mind. It shifts reality, it objectifies. How do you know those models were not raped for someone to watch? It's nature to explore and be curious as a teen but if you're not educated correctly on the topic, porn can very well turn folk in to dysfunctional members of society. --- Are you really promoting the notion that teens should have access to disturbing content to the likes of scat, watersports, beastality, vore, snuff to name a few? Because all of those are all very disturbing and with how it is today, all very easy to get ahold of. Are you really going to tell me theres nothing wrong with viewing any of those as a kid?
    - davidguetta 3y ago
      > Are you really going to tell me theres nothing wrong with viewing any of those as a kid? Well you really are providing 0 actual argument of why not. If we take your examples 1 by 1, first you keep quoting BDSM as extreme but for milions of people it is not extreme (even depicted in mainstream movies like 50 shades). Pain can lead to pleasure in sex, and a lot of people (guys and girls) get more horny when dominated in bed in a safe and trusting environment. I don't see what is so hard or bad to explain / show it to teenagers. On the other hand not speaking about any of it or marking it as taboo can lead to situations where uneducated parties get massively abused in bed by bad people or simply equally uneducated people (how many times the drunk + "oh I discovered last week my girl likes domination" combo has led to something on the rape scale ?). As for scat and bestiality honestly if I take my personal experience i watched 10 seconds of 2 girls 1 cup when I was 16, almost threw up on the computer and then decided that was not my thing and never saw another video despite consuming a lot of port. Same for bestiality.. I'm repulsed by it but not traumatized by it. Im not advocating to put kids in front of porn (and like i said in another comment i'm fine with the status quo of the rule of "not under 18" while not being really enforced). I'm only saying that instead of focusing on fobidding it, which will never work on the first place, we should try to fill the massive gap there (still) is in the mind of many people and many families on how we introduce kids to a form of sexual education that will make them safe later. Because THAT is a currently shit show and most kids learn about it in a very random fashion.
mistrial9 3y ago
p0rn for teens is a emotional molotov cocktail; re-think this
- polski-g 3y ago
  Grand Theft Auto isn't. Postal isn't. Doom isn't. Why would porn?
  - eastof 3y ago
    Because the porn kids can access today is completely different than the titty mags grandparent mentions. Today you watch literal sex slaves abused to near death, vomiting and crying while triple penetrated. I can't imagine how harmful it is for young boys and their relations with the opposite sex growing up watching this shit.
    - throwaway67743 3y ago
      I grew up watching the beginning of this and have healthy (Conservative these days) opinions on sex, it's not an exposure problem it has and always will be a parenting problem, (I see this more now, going into it) - the stark fact is parents are less than useless now, nobody wants any responsibility.
    - throwaway22032 3y ago
      We've had rotten, live leak, GNAA last measure and friends for decades now. Sure, we shared that as kids, but the majority of the internet is not horror gore, you have to really seek it out. We would troll each other with it and then move on. Same for porn. I'm sure I could find that stuff if I wanted but it's not even close to being a default. It was all on limewire or whatever 15 years ago too. I remember trying to download Jackass episodes and getting BDSM gay midget porn. Nice one. And yeah, like the other poster, I grew up with this stuff (late 20s early 30s now) and if anything it made me more conservative and use porn in moderation. The extreme stuff looks like hedonistic bollocks, "everything is ok as long as someone agrees", exactly the opposite of what I need to have a happy and healthy life, relationship and family.
purple20 3y ago
[dead]
hnfong 3y ago
> if you're really worried about it, you as a parent should be the one to do something about it, not the government, because you'll reach a point in time where they are the ones saying how you should and shouldn't raise your kids I suspect part of the reason policies like these have popular support is the twisted idea that I should be able to dictate how you raise your kids...
- tivert 3y ago
  > I suspect part of the reason policies like these have popular support is the twisted idea that I should be able to dictate how you raise your kids... That's not "twisted idea," unless you think it's OK for parents to beat their kids.
  - filoleg 3y ago
    > That's not "twisted idea," unless you think it's OK for parents to beat their kids. The "beating" bit has nothing to do with raising children. It is not ok to beat people in general, so I don't see why one gotta make a special case of "raising kids" when it comes to physical violence. If "beating people" is already illegal (edge cases of self-defense and such obviously apply), then "beating kids" is also illegal. I do think it is a "twisted idea" to dictate how one should raise their kids in all the minor aspects beyond the baseline, and I also believe that beating your own kids is no more ok than beating an adult.
    - tivert 3y ago
      >> That's not "twisted idea," unless you think it's OK for parents to beat their kids. > The "beating" bit has nothing to do with raising children. Says you, but historically a lot of parents have disagreed. Statements like the one I quoted in the GP are often revealed to be equivalent to something like "people totally shouldn't be allowed to impose their beliefs about X on others...except for my beliefs, which totally should be imposed on others because I've confused them with the objective laws of nature or something."
      - 3y ago
1827163 3y ago
I don't think allowing teenagers to access pornography would cause significant harm to them. The only risk is them carrying out unsafe sex practices from the porn, which can be remedied through education. The reason we prohibit teenagers from having porn is likely from religious dogma passed down the generations without people questioning it. Yes, trusting children to make decisions helps them grow, by allowing them to make mistakes and learn from them naturally.
- tivert 3y ago
  > The reason we prohibit teenagers from having porn is likely from religious dogma passed down the generations without people questioning it. That's an ignorant view ignores things like feminist critiques of porn. > Yes, trusting children to make decisions helps them grow, by allowing them to make mistakes and learn from them naturally. You're missing an important aspect of that, which is to give them decision-making power when they're ready for it.
  - johngladtj 3y ago
    People live up to what you expect them to live up to. If you expect a 6 year old to run the grocery store you own while you're away, then they will Let make decisions and give them the agency to make those decisions, then they will. The infantilization of people has caused far greater harm than almost any other thing.
    - tivert 3y ago
      > People live up to what you expect them to live up to. > If you expect a 6 year old to run the grocery store you own while you're away, then they will... One of the problems with our society is the tendency to take a kernel of truth and then oversimplify and take it so far that it just becomes a total falsehood. Like your example of the 6 year old and the grocery store, there are certainly stores/communities where that's reasonable, but also lot of stores/communities where it isn't. There's no general rule there. > The infantilization of people has caused far greater harm than almost any other thing. ...and then there's the the hyperfocus that leads to a total lack of perspective.
shrimp_emoji 3y ago
What's the switch I have to flip to turn your brain off to caring about the fact that I'm taking control of you? It's attached to the things your primordial reptile brain viscerally fears the most: your kids are in danger! And terrorists will kill you!
hulitu 3y ago
> Did the people who grew up with nude magazines, cable pornography... grow up to be dysfunctional members of society? TBH, some of them, yes. Just look at the political "elite".

doublerabbit 3y ago

[flagged]

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
A wise man said regarding pornography: "the problem is not that pornography shows too much of a person, but that it shows too little."
davidguetta 3y ago
This is nothing but an opinion. Most people who are pro this law think the same thing of vanilla porn that you think about bdsm and fisting. And for the extreme case, some of them think the same about basic nudity even when not sexual. And worse, the most extreme think that women should not even show their face in public. It's just a degree of rejection of the sexuality of the human as a taboo, which seems to me nothing but cultural. I'm yet to see a compelling argument that "children shouldn't have access to porn". Not that i particularly think they should have access and I'm actually fine with the 'not under 18' rule for the sake of the "Chesterton Fence" argument, but I'm yet to see an explanation that make a vague sense to me.
- tivert 3y ago
  > This is nothing but an opinion. If you want to be technical about it, "murder is wrong" is also "nothing but an opinion."
  - davidguetta 3y ago
    Well the point is that murder have practical and measurable consequences whereas the effect of "porn accessible" vs "no sex to be ever seen on screen before 18" for teenager is not universally accepted.
- doublerabbit 3y ago
  Typical I get flagged. --- > why shouldn't teenagers have access to pornography (which isn't even the case here)? Did the people who grew up with nude magazines, cable pornography... grow up to be dysfunctional members of society? Teenagers nowadays are getting access to all types of pornography and some of which shouldn't really be viewed until you really are an adult. BDSM, Fisting et cetera are not content genres that a 16 year old should be able to access. You didn't find those in magazines on the top shelf. Soft and hard core genres have all been made accessible on the same shelf and that itself has some very detrimental psychological effects on the developing mind. Porn doesn't show real life at all. The relationship, bonding, spiritually are never depicted. Pain is treated as pleasure, the list is endless. All in all is that porn is just another type of movie genre; and like all movies, are fake. Pornography addiction is real and warps the mind. It shifts reality, it objectifies. How do you know those models were not raped for someone to watch? It's nature to explore and be curious as a teen but if you're not educated correctly on the topic, porn can very well turn folk in to dysfunctional members of society. --- Are you really promoting the notion that teens should have access to disturbing content to the likes of scat, watersports, beastality, vore, snuff to name a few? Because all of those are all very disturbing and with how it is today, all very easy to get ahold of. Are you really going to tell me theres nothing wrong with viewing any of those as a kid?
  - davidguetta 3y ago
    > Are you really going to tell me theres nothing wrong with viewing any of those as a kid? Well you really are providing 0 actual argument of why not. If we take your examples 1 by 1, first you keep quoting BDSM as extreme but for milions of people it is not extreme (even depicted in mainstream movies like 50 shades). Pain can lead to pleasure in sex, and a lot of people (guys and girls) get more horny when dominated in bed in a safe and trusting environment. I don't see what is so hard or bad to explain / show it to teenagers. On the other hand not speaking about any of it or marking it as taboo can lead to situations where uneducated parties get massively abused in bed by bad people or simply equally uneducated people (how many times the drunk + "oh I discovered last week my girl likes domination" combo has led to something on the rape scale ?). As for scat and bestiality honestly if I take my personal experience i watched 10 seconds of 2 girls 1 cup when I was 16, almost threw up on the computer and then decided that was not my thing and never saw another video despite consuming a lot of port. Same for bestiality.. I'm repulsed by it but not traumatized by it. Im not advocating to put kids in front of porn (and like i said in another comment i'm fine with the status quo of the rule of "not under 18" while not being really enforced). I'm only saying that instead of focusing on fobidding it, which will never work on the first place, we should try to fill the massive gap there (still) is in the mind of many people and many families on how we introduce kids to a form of sexual education that will make them safe later. Because THAT is a currently shit show and most kids learn about it in a very random fashion.

mistrial9 3y ago

p0rn for teens is a emotional molotov cocktail; re-think this

polski-g 3y ago
Grand Theft Auto isn't. Postal isn't. Doom isn't. Why would porn?
- eastof 3y ago
  Because the porn kids can access today is completely different than the titty mags grandparent mentions. Today you watch literal sex slaves abused to near death, vomiting and crying while triple penetrated. I can't imagine how harmful it is for young boys and their relations with the opposite sex growing up watching this shit.
  - throwaway67743 3y ago
    I grew up watching the beginning of this and have healthy (Conservative these days) opinions on sex, it's not an exposure problem it has and always will be a parenting problem, (I see this more now, going into it) - the stark fact is parents are less than useless now, nobody wants any responsibility.
  - throwaway22032 3y ago
    We've had rotten, live leak, GNAA last measure and friends for decades now. Sure, we shared that as kids, but the majority of the internet is not horror gore, you have to really seek it out. We would troll each other with it and then move on. Same for porn. I'm sure I could find that stuff if I wanted but it's not even close to being a default. It was all on limewire or whatever 15 years ago too. I remember trying to download Jackass episodes and getting BDSM gay midget porn. Nice one. And yeah, like the other poster, I grew up with this stuff (late 20s early 30s now) and if anything it made me more conservative and use porn in moderation. The extreme stuff looks like hedonistic bollocks, "everything is ok as long as someone agrees", exactly the opposite of what I need to have a happy and healthy life, relationship and family.

purple20 3y ago

[dead]

hnfong 3y ago

> if you're really worried about it, you as a parent should be the one to do something about it, not the government, because you'll reach a point in time where they are the ones saying how you should and shouldn't raise your kids I suspect part of the reason policies like these have popular support is the twisted idea that I should be able to dictate how you raise your kids...

tivert 3y ago
> I suspect part of the reason policies like these have popular support is the twisted idea that I should be able to dictate how you raise your kids... That's not "twisted idea," unless you think it's OK for parents to beat their kids.
- filoleg 3y ago
  > That's not "twisted idea," unless you think it's OK for parents to beat their kids. The "beating" bit has nothing to do with raising children. It is not ok to beat people in general, so I don't see why one gotta make a special case of "raising kids" when it comes to physical violence. If "beating people" is already illegal (edge cases of self-defense and such obviously apply), then "beating kids" is also illegal. I do think it is a "twisted idea" to dictate how one should raise their kids in all the minor aspects beyond the baseline, and I also believe that beating your own kids is no more ok than beating an adult.
  - tivert 3y ago
    >> That's not "twisted idea," unless you think it's OK for parents to beat their kids. > The "beating" bit has nothing to do with raising children. Says you, but historically a lot of parents have disagreed. Statements like the one I quoted in the GP are often revealed to be equivalent to something like "people totally shouldn't be allowed to impose their beliefs about X on others...except for my beliefs, which totally should be imposed on others because I've confused them with the objective laws of nature or something."
    - 3y ago

1827163 3y ago

I don't think allowing teenagers to access pornography would cause significant harm to them. The only risk is them carrying out unsafe sex practices from the porn, which can be remedied through education. The reason we prohibit teenagers from having porn is likely from religious dogma passed down the generations without people questioning it. Yes, trusting children to make decisions helps them grow, by allowing them to make mistakes and learn from them naturally.

tivert 3y ago
> The reason we prohibit teenagers from having porn is likely from religious dogma passed down the generations without people questioning it. That's an ignorant view ignores things like feminist critiques of porn. > Yes, trusting children to make decisions helps them grow, by allowing them to make mistakes and learn from them naturally. You're missing an important aspect of that, which is to give them decision-making power when they're ready for it.
- johngladtj 3y ago
  People live up to what you expect them to live up to. If you expect a 6 year old to run the grocery store you own while you're away, then they will Let make decisions and give them the agency to make those decisions, then they will. The infantilization of people has caused far greater harm than almost any other thing.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > People live up to what you expect them to live up to. > If you expect a 6 year old to run the grocery store you own while you're away, then they will... One of the problems with our society is the tendency to take a kernel of truth and then oversimplify and take it so far that it just becomes a total falsehood. Like your example of the 6 year old and the grocery store, there are certainly stores/communities where that's reasonable, but also lot of stores/communities where it isn't. There's no general rule there. > The infantilization of people has caused far greater harm than almost any other thing. ...and then there's the the hyperfocus that leads to a total lack of perspective.

shrimp_emoji 3y ago

What's the switch I have to flip to turn your brain off to caring about the fact that I'm taking control of you? It's attached to the things your primordial reptile brain viscerally fears the most: your kids are in danger! And terrorists will kill you!

hulitu 3y ago

> Did the people who grew up with nude magazines, cable pornography... grow up to be dysfunctional members of society? TBH, some of them, yes. Just look at the political "elite".