5 ms·

The problem is, and always has been, on the client side. It's easy to dream up all sorts of amazing technologies if you're okay with making users download a new

by staunch 15y ago

The problem is, and always has been, on the client side. It's easy to dream up all sorts of amazing technologies if you're okay with making users download a new browser plugin or app. Flash sucks, but it's on every single PC. Netflix has the power to get users to install Silverlight -- Microsoft made that pretty easy. Unfortunately you probably don't have their library and will live to regret it[1]. Adobe is also working on this idea with RTMFP (their newest streaming protocol)[2] In fact few years there's been a company already doing this with a Flash Plugin (Yes dawg, there's a Plugin in my Plugin).[3] CNN use(d) it for quite a while. I wouldn't bet anything on BitTorrent adding anything interesting here. The technology may be difficult but it's not as difficult as overcoming the huge barriers to entry. The best we can hope for is that they create an open protocol the way they did with BitTorrent that browsers can implement over the next 5+ years. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joost#Application_discontinued http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joost#Application_discontinued 2. http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/cirrus/ http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/cirrus/ 3. http://www.octoshape.com/addin/about.php http://www.octoshape.com/addin/about.php

smokinn 15y ago
On the other hand bittorrent live has great distribution channels: The Pirate Bay et al. There will be many people wanting to "stream bittorrent" and it'll get at least close to critical mass. Whether it can tip over into the mainstream will be the real question. One example I could see is justin.tv that's betting heavily (with their twitch.tv site) on esports which I'm pretty sure has a good overlap with people who know/use bittorrent. Another of course will be megaupload/megavideo v2.0. It's definitely something worth following.
- rabidsnail 15y ago
  MLG used octoshape for a while, and it was notoriously unreliable. That left a bad taste in the mouth of the exports community when it comes to peer-to-peer distribution.
- rabble 15y ago
  To me it seems like the rojadirecta.es folks, who are doing pirate live sports streaming, will love this.
- lambda 15y ago
  But, BitTorrent Live has nothing to do with BitTorrent, besides the inventor and the name. It's a completely new, proprietary protocol. You need to download their proprietary software to view it. You can't view existing torrents with it; so the Pirate Bay doesn't provide it with a distribution channel. One of the reasons that BitTorrent took off as well as it did was that it was an open protocol and free software. People could write competing BitTorrent clients. They could extend the protocol, adding new features like trackerless torrents and magnet links. BitTorrent Live has none of that; it's yet another proprietary streaming service, designed to create a walled garden that the content industry can be happy with. It will succeed or fail based on how well BitTorrent Inc can cut content deals, and cut deals with set-top-box manufacturers to include their software. And that's not really a game that you want to be in, unless you have a lot of leverage like Apple or Amazon, or the backing of big content companies like Hulu.
tar 15y ago
Bittorrent already has a massive amount of users. Couldn't they just bundle their plugin with something like µTorrent?
saulrh 15y ago
On the other hand, we've seen that people are clearly willing to download bittorrent clients to get their stuff. Add in PEX with DHT and tribler-like functionality (versus having to go find a sufficiently non-seedy website, and not having to put credit card details into netflix, and so on) and you've got a winner.
moylan 15y ago
netflix recently came to ireland. but requiring silverlight rules out linux users. but if i want to watch irish tv (god forbid, it's usually terrible) i can use http://www.aertv.ie/ http://www.aertv.ie/ with no plugins or downloads beyond flash to watch all the irish channels. not sure what the legality is but it seems to be rebroadcasting all the channels covered under the irish digital channels that are free to air. many of these channels show u.s. tv shows. wonder what the legality of that is. is aertv blocked outsite ireland?
- rabble 15y ago
  My quick check, from a US ip address, the page loads but the flash doesn't stream. I'm guessing it's a geoip block.
  - patrickk 15y ago
    What you need is a "reverse" version of www.hotspotshield.com A colleague uses hotspot shield to watch Hulu from Ireland (Hulu is currently US-only).
sixcorners 15y ago
What ever happened to that Chrome P2P API? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2315908 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2315908 Think a bittorrent client could be made from this?
- ameyn 15y ago
  It was releazed a few weeks back, and its called the RealTimeCommunication(RTC) API, no longer the P2P API, getting a client from this is possible, especially now that other browsers would be supporting it soon. Windows8's IE10 browser looks promising in this direction. But the API isn't written on stone, which could be a problem in getting a commercial app in the near future.
toyg 15y ago
I have one word for you: websockets. This stuff is going to be baked in your browser very shortly, plugins are yesterday's game. If Cohen can make his stuff work seamlessly with websockets, very interesting things will happen.
- wmf 15y ago
  It's not clear that we'll get P2P websockets (see WebRTC) or whether websockets are going to be plumbed to <video>.

by staunch 15y ago

smokinn 15y ago

On the other hand bittorrent live has great distribution channels: The Pirate Bay et al. There will be many people wanting to "stream bittorrent" and it'll get at least close to critical mass. Whether it can tip over into the mainstream will be the real question. One example I could see is justin.tv that's betting heavily (with their twitch.tv site) on esports which I'm pretty sure has a good overlap with people who know/use bittorrent. Another of course will be megaupload/megavideo v2.0. It's definitely something worth following.

rabidsnail 15y ago
MLG used octoshape for a while, and it was notoriously unreliable. That left a bad taste in the mouth of the exports community when it comes to peer-to-peer distribution.
rabble 15y ago
To me it seems like the rojadirecta.es folks, who are doing pirate live sports streaming, will love this.
lambda 15y ago
But, BitTorrent Live has nothing to do with BitTorrent, besides the inventor and the name. It's a completely new, proprietary protocol. You need to download their proprietary software to view it. You can't view existing torrents with it; so the Pirate Bay doesn't provide it with a distribution channel. One of the reasons that BitTorrent took off as well as it did was that it was an open protocol and free software. People could write competing BitTorrent clients. They could extend the protocol, adding new features like trackerless torrents and magnet links. BitTorrent Live has none of that; it's yet another proprietary streaming service, designed to create a walled garden that the content industry can be happy with. It will succeed or fail based on how well BitTorrent Inc can cut content deals, and cut deals with set-top-box manufacturers to include their software. And that's not really a game that you want to be in, unless you have a lot of leverage like Apple or Amazon, or the backing of big content companies like Hulu.

tar 15y ago

Bittorrent already has a massive amount of users. Couldn't they just bundle their plugin with something like µTorrent?

saulrh 15y ago

On the other hand, we've seen that people are clearly willing to download bittorrent clients to get their stuff. Add in PEX with DHT and tribler-like functionality (versus having to go find a sufficiently non-seedy website, and not having to put credit card details into netflix, and so on) and you've got a winner.

moylan 15y ago

netflix recently came to ireland. but requiring silverlight rules out linux users. but if i want to watch irish tv (god forbid, it's usually terrible) i can use http://www.aertv.ie/ http://www.aertv.ie/ with no plugins or downloads beyond flash to watch all the irish channels. not sure what the legality is but it seems to be rebroadcasting all the channels covered under the irish digital channels that are free to air. many of these channels show u.s. tv shows. wonder what the legality of that is. is aertv blocked outsite ireland?

rabble 15y ago
My quick check, from a US ip address, the page loads but the flash doesn't stream. I'm guessing it's a geoip block.
- patrickk 15y ago
  What you need is a "reverse" version of www.hotspotshield.com A colleague uses hotspot shield to watch Hulu from Ireland (Hulu is currently US-only).

sixcorners 15y ago

What ever happened to that Chrome P2P API? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2315908 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2315908 Think a bittorrent client could be made from this?

ameyn 15y ago
It was releazed a few weeks back, and its called the RealTimeCommunication(RTC) API, no longer the P2P API, getting a client from this is possible, especially now that other browsers would be supporting it soon. Windows8's IE10 browser looks promising in this direction. But the API isn't written on stone, which could be a problem in getting a commercial app in the near future.

toyg 15y ago

I have one word for you: websockets. This stuff is going to be baked in your browser very shortly, plugins are yesterday's game. If Cohen can make his stuff work seamlessly with websockets, very interesting things will happen.

wmf 15y ago
It's not clear that we'll get P2P websockets (see WebRTC) or whether websockets are going to be plumbed to <video>.