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I wouldn't underestimate cultural changes too. The old American WASP culture that dominated the prestigious corners of the academy up until a generation or two

by User23 3y ago

I wouldn't underestimate cultural changes too. The old American WASP culture that dominated the prestigious corners of the academy up until a generation or two ago was very big on honor codes and they were largely adhered to including for things like take home tests. Now it appears everybody, including the descendants of the people who used to take honor codes seriously, considers them to be for chumps and will take any angle that they can. At the end of the day, cheating is a cultural problem and not a technological one. Technology might make cheating easier or help to expose it, but it will never prevent it. As you say, it just becomes a game when you try. Fortunately, people can be taught to change their culture for the better, so it's not as if it's hopeless.

raddan 3y ago
I agree that it is a cultural issue. When cheating is rampant in a class, it is often because an instructor either does not properly motivate the work, or assigns too much work, or both. I work hard to motivate my students. The first point, that I think virtually every student would agree with, is that we all do not want to pay a lot of money to waste our time, right? Cheating is a waste of time and money. I occasionally hear from students that they think a given class is merely an obstacle on their career path. E.g., “if I get a bad grade in this algorithms class then I can’t get that prestigious job.” I try to remind them that they will be expected to do certain things at prestigious jobs. I think the second, and more important point about cheating is that it devalues yourself. We only live once. We should do it excellently, because by doing things excellently, we find the value in our lives. And, in case it isn’t clear, by “excellent” I do not mean “A+ work.” I mean, simply, striving to do our best. I have a lot of respect for a student who takes a challenging course and earns a low grade than one who prefers not to challenge themselves at all. Still, I am not always successful, and students cheat in my class. I understand many of the reasons (time pressure, family pressure, etc), but it is my sincere wish that we could find a way past all of that. College can be—-and is for some—-an opportunity to elevate oneself. If you’ve ever had that before, it’s an experience that you hope others will be able to share.
nradov 3y ago
The WASPs of a generation ago didn't need to cheat; as long as they could graduate they were almost assured of a good job. Now with more students going to college and employers being more selective in hiring the stakes seem higher. Cheating is never right, but I understand why more students are doing it. As for changing the culture, one necessary step would be that employers would have to stop looking at GPA.
- neurobama 3y ago
  >The WASPs of a generation ago didn't need to cheat; as long as they could graduate they were almost assured of a good job. Do you have data to back this up, or is it just lazy racial basis? Also Jared Kushner isn't a WASP.
rqtwteye 3y ago
"The old American WASP culture that dominated the prestigious corners of the academy up until a generation or two ago was very big on honor codes and they were largely adhered to including for things like take home tests. Now it appears everybody, including the descendants of the people who used to take honor codes seriously, considers them to be for chumps and will take any angle that they can." I think that's very romanticized. The high crust was always doing what it took to get ahead. If cheating was the best way to get ahead, they would do that. Them following honor codes is just self-serving propaganda. Nowadays more people are realizing how f...ed up the system is and cheat too.
monksy 3y ago
> Now it appears everybody, including the descendants of the people who used to take honor codes seriously, Aka the ignorance of youth/rejection of experience.

by User23 3y ago

raddan 3y ago

I agree that it is a cultural issue. When cheating is rampant in a class, it is often because an instructor either does not properly motivate the work, or assigns too much work, or both. I work hard to motivate my students. The first point, that I think virtually every student would agree with, is that we all do not want to pay a lot of money to waste our time, right? Cheating is a waste of time and money. I occasionally hear from students that they think a given class is merely an obstacle on their career path. E.g., “if I get a bad grade in this algorithms class then I can’t get that prestigious job.” I try to remind them that they will be expected to do certain things at prestigious jobs. I think the second, and more important point about cheating is that it devalues yourself. We only live once. We should do it excellently, because by doing things excellently, we find the value in our lives. And, in case it isn’t clear, by “excellent” I do not mean “A+ work.” I mean, simply, striving to do our best. I have a lot of respect for a student who takes a challenging course and earns a low grade than one who prefers not to challenge themselves at all. Still, I am not always successful, and students cheat in my class. I understand many of the reasons (time pressure, family pressure, etc), but it is my sincere wish that we could find a way past all of that. College can be—-and is for some—-an opportunity to elevate oneself. If you’ve ever had that before, it’s an experience that you hope others will be able to share.

nradov 3y ago

The WASPs of a generation ago didn't need to cheat; as long as they could graduate they were almost assured of a good job. Now with more students going to college and employers being more selective in hiring the stakes seem higher. Cheating is never right, but I understand why more students are doing it. As for changing the culture, one necessary step would be that employers would have to stop looking at GPA.

neurobama 3y ago
>The WASPs of a generation ago didn't need to cheat; as long as they could graduate they were almost assured of a good job. Do you have data to back this up, or is it just lazy racial basis? Also Jared Kushner isn't a WASP.

rqtwteye 3y ago

"The old American WASP culture that dominated the prestigious corners of the academy up until a generation or two ago was very big on honor codes and they were largely adhered to including for things like take home tests. Now it appears everybody, including the descendants of the people who used to take honor codes seriously, considers them to be for chumps and will take any angle that they can." I think that's very romanticized. The high crust was always doing what it took to get ahead. If cheating was the best way to get ahead, they would do that. Them following honor codes is just self-serving propaganda. Nowadays more people are realizing how f...ed up the system is and cheat too.

monksy 3y ago

> Now it appears everybody, including the descendants of the people who used to take honor codes seriously, Aka the ignorance of youth/rejection of experience.