5 ms·

This (among other things) makes me wonder why we don't have better metrics and monitoring solutions for the human body. Your option is anecdotal self-diagnosis,

by dcow 3y ago

This (among other things) makes me wonder why we don't have better metrics and monitoring solutions for the human body. Your option is anecdotal self-diagnosis, or a full blood panel after seeing a doctor and convincing them that you need to be tested. It seems there's room for a product that monitors your health and sends you notifications when you need to address any metrics that are falling out of normal tolerances. Or at least something that helps you keep on top of preventative health visits. Holmes showed it can't really be invasive technology. I wonder if some sort of embedded blood monitoring device is feasible.

lynx23 3y ago
I have never digged into the matter, but the closest existing thing which resembles your idea is that apparently, in Japan, there are toilets which do automatic testing and reporting. That seems like a neat idea because it does not require any kind of invasive procedure, but it is likely also a bit limited in what it can test for.
loeg 3y ago
Blood panels are expensive and laborious to do with any frequency. Your body does a reasonably good job of monitoring and remediation on its own.
- dmonitor 3y ago
  > Blood panels are expensive and laborious to do with any frequency I believe their implication is that there should be some engineering effort to reduce the expense and labor
  - loeg 3y ago
    You're faced with a fundamental problem of getting the blood out, though, which is always invasive and labor intensive. Or worse, you could embed a semi-permanent medical implant of some kind which would be obscenely expensive.
DocTomoe 3y ago
Depending on your location, it is virtually impossible to get any real metrics. A few years ago, inspired by some books I've read about nutrition, I tried to get a whole bloodwork done - and then another one after a few weeks of the new nutrition regime. The idea was to have a data-based approach to changing my life. My doctor was less than helpful ('We only do full bloodwork if there is a medical indication, no I won't take your money'), and medical labs refused to do so because 'they only work with medical practitioners'. Apparently, in Germany, there is no way to get some data on my own goddamn body other than my height and my weight (things I can determine myself). I would love to have a service where I send in a blood sample / have a blood sample taken, and get back a report, with all the values, on an easy to understand bar graph, with lower and upper bond of 'healthy'. Startup idea, anyone?
- tick_tock_tick 3y ago
  > Startup idea, anyone? There are a few of these in the USA especially the Bay Area. Hell you can even pay for a full check up that even includes an MRI. Last checked the full service was like ~$5-6k and that includes pretty much everything you could want to know. I've also been told you can get the same work done in Korea for a fraction of the price if your willing to take a vacation.
- baristavibes 3y ago
  "private" or "self-paid" lab blood tests are pretty common here, just across the border in Czech Republic, I'm surprised to find out they're unavailable in Germany, do you have to route every foreigner through a medical professional? Or is the catch that they won't do a "full" blood panel?
lm28469 3y ago
Half of the western world is overweight/obese (75%+ in the US), the vast majority of people are massively malnourished and under exercise The market for that is very small, most of the things that kill are known, the solutions are known, there is nothing cost effective, no magic pill Optimize for the basics, you have a long way to go before individual tests bring anything to the table. If you don't exercise vigorously 5+ times a week, walk 20k steps a day, skip alcohol, stop eating processed food, &c. no amount of vitamins will extend your life. It's like changing your tires every 5000km while skipping oil changes until the engine dies
- dcow 3y ago
  I'm not saying they key to good health is a big secret. I'm saying we're bad as a society or as human beings at objectively tracking this stuff and correcting negative trends often before it's too late. I've experimented with my body and nutrition a lot, with noticeable outcomes. You can't eat and know the next day that what you ate had too much refined sugar, or that it was organic and lacked toxins, just be how you feel. It takes weeks of not eating well before you notice anything and then months to years of the habit to gain enough weight to be obese. And some people eat like shit and feel great and don't get fat yet are wildly unhealthy inside. And some people are bigger than others and in pristine health. Diet is a huge part of health, yes, but there's more to health than diet... and how the heck does a person who's e.g. deficient in Vitamin D even know they are unless it's adversely affecting their mood. And even then how do they diagnose it and correct it when doctors are ~~bribed~~ encouraged with gifts to prescribe designer drugs for every problem. My argument is that this information about your body should be more accessible so people are empowered to learn it and act on it of their own volition. If that were the case I bet we'd see less crack pop science surrounding diets and nutrition. Anyway your car analogy doesn't really hold. I can plug a $100 device into my car and diagnose what's wrong and read any data I want. It will tell me when I need to change the oil. I can look at the tires and see if they've worn past the safe level and replace them as needed. I can't do that with my body. The only consumer devices available are blood glucose and keytone test strips. There's no consumer "full blood panel" what would solve the problem the person I responded to shared. And consider women going through pregnancy, it's very very easy to be missing some key nutrients. It's common practice to supplement with pre-natals for the entire fertile phase of a woman's life. All because a lot of changes happen to your body that are hard to understand subjectively, so just spray and pray with vitamins and iron. I'm sure this is at some level by design by the AMA. If people had access to low cost blood tests then we'd be undercutting a huge component of the medical industrial complex and the AMA does shady shit to keep doctor salaries high enough to justify all the schooling and certification fees. Also where did you get that 75% number? Anecdotally it's not accurate. Obesity is higher than it should be but 3 of every 4 people are not obese even by the > 30 BMI metric. So, again, why would more open access to baseline metabolic metrics be a bad thing?
hombre_fatal 3y ago
You don’t have any wellness centers or clinics around you that offer blood tests? A full panel costs $80–100 but its not expensive for something you can do every few months to make sure you’re in good health. No need to convince a doctor.
- barelycompetent 3y ago
  In certain states the law forbids the unwashed masses from having their own blood tested (a doctor must order the blood test). Land of the free! See (7) and (8) of https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXVI/Chapter111D/Section8 https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXVI/Ch...

by dcow 3y ago

lynx23 3y ago

I have never digged into the matter, but the closest existing thing which resembles your idea is that apparently, in Japan, there are toilets which do automatic testing and reporting. That seems like a neat idea because it does not require any kind of invasive procedure, but it is likely also a bit limited in what it can test for.

loeg 3y ago

Blood panels are expensive and laborious to do with any frequency. Your body does a reasonably good job of monitoring and remediation on its own.

dmonitor 3y ago
> Blood panels are expensive and laborious to do with any frequency I believe their implication is that there should be some engineering effort to reduce the expense and labor
- loeg 3y ago
  You're faced with a fundamental problem of getting the blood out, though, which is always invasive and labor intensive. Or worse, you could embed a semi-permanent medical implant of some kind which would be obscenely expensive.

DocTomoe 3y ago

Depending on your location, it is virtually impossible to get any real metrics. A few years ago, inspired by some books I've read about nutrition, I tried to get a whole bloodwork done - and then another one after a few weeks of the new nutrition regime. The idea was to have a data-based approach to changing my life. My doctor was less than helpful ('We only do full bloodwork if there is a medical indication, no I won't take your money'), and medical labs refused to do so because 'they only work with medical practitioners'. Apparently, in Germany, there is no way to get some data on my own goddamn body other than my height and my weight (things I can determine myself). I would love to have a service where I send in a blood sample / have a blood sample taken, and get back a report, with all the values, on an easy to understand bar graph, with lower and upper bond of 'healthy'. Startup idea, anyone?

tick_tock_tick 3y ago
> Startup idea, anyone? There are a few of these in the USA especially the Bay Area. Hell you can even pay for a full check up that even includes an MRI. Last checked the full service was like ~$5-6k and that includes pretty much everything you could want to know. I've also been told you can get the same work done in Korea for a fraction of the price if your willing to take a vacation.
baristavibes 3y ago
"private" or "self-paid" lab blood tests are pretty common here, just across the border in Czech Republic, I'm surprised to find out they're unavailable in Germany, do you have to route every foreigner through a medical professional? Or is the catch that they won't do a "full" blood panel?

lm28469 3y ago

Half of the western world is overweight/obese (75%+ in the US), the vast majority of people are massively malnourished and under exercise The market for that is very small, most of the things that kill are known, the solutions are known, there is nothing cost effective, no magic pill Optimize for the basics, you have a long way to go before individual tests bring anything to the table. If you don't exercise vigorously 5+ times a week, walk 20k steps a day, skip alcohol, stop eating processed food, &c. no amount of vitamins will extend your life. It's like changing your tires every 5000km while skipping oil changes until the engine dies

dcow 3y ago
I'm not saying they key to good health is a big secret. I'm saying we're bad as a society or as human beings at objectively tracking this stuff and correcting negative trends often before it's too late. I've experimented with my body and nutrition a lot, with noticeable outcomes. You can't eat and know the next day that what you ate had too much refined sugar, or that it was organic and lacked toxins, just be how you feel. It takes weeks of not eating well before you notice anything and then months to years of the habit to gain enough weight to be obese. And some people eat like shit and feel great and don't get fat yet are wildly unhealthy inside. And some people are bigger than others and in pristine health. Diet is a huge part of health, yes, but there's more to health than diet... and how the heck does a person who's e.g. deficient in Vitamin D even know they are unless it's adversely affecting their mood. And even then how do they diagnose it and correct it when doctors are ~~bribed~~ encouraged with gifts to prescribe designer drugs for every problem. My argument is that this information about your body should be more accessible so people are empowered to learn it and act on it of their own volition. If that were the case I bet we'd see less crack pop science surrounding diets and nutrition. Anyway your car analogy doesn't really hold. I can plug a $100 device into my car and diagnose what's wrong and read any data I want. It will tell me when I need to change the oil. I can look at the tires and see if they've worn past the safe level and replace them as needed. I can't do that with my body. The only consumer devices available are blood glucose and keytone test strips. There's no consumer "full blood panel" what would solve the problem the person I responded to shared. And consider women going through pregnancy, it's very very easy to be missing some key nutrients. It's common practice to supplement with pre-natals for the entire fertile phase of a woman's life. All because a lot of changes happen to your body that are hard to understand subjectively, so just spray and pray with vitamins and iron. I'm sure this is at some level by design by the AMA. If people had access to low cost blood tests then we'd be undercutting a huge component of the medical industrial complex and the AMA does shady shit to keep doctor salaries high enough to justify all the schooling and certification fees. Also where did you get that 75% number? Anecdotally it's not accurate. Obesity is higher than it should be but 3 of every 4 people are not obese even by the > 30 BMI metric. So, again, why would more open access to baseline metabolic metrics be a bad thing?

hombre_fatal 3y ago

You don’t have any wellness centers or clinics around you that offer blood tests? A full panel costs $80–100 but its not expensive for something you can do every few months to make sure you’re in good health. No need to convince a doctor.

barelycompetent 3y ago
In certain states the law forbids the unwashed masses from having their own blood tested (a doctor must order the blood test). Land of the free! See (7) and (8) of https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXVI/Chapter111D/Section8 https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXVI/Ch...