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The thing is that personal politics don't end up being a personal thing because they result in real policies that guide real material outcomes. At this point s

The thing is that personal politics don't end up being a personal thing because they result in real policies that guide real material outcomes. At this point saying one is uninterested in living in a red state could be about party politics, but it also could just as much about not being inclined to subject onesself to starkly higher risks of being shot and killed (the outcome of someone's personal politics). eg. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising... > In reality, the region the Big Apple comprises most of is far and away the safest part of the U.S. mainland when it comes to gun violence, while the regions Florida and Texas belong to have per capita firearm death rates (homicides and suicides) three to four times higher than New York’s. On a regional basis it’s the southern swath of the country — in cities and rural areas alike — where the rate of deadly gun violence is most acute, regions where Republicans have dominated state governments for decades.

oatmeal1 3y ago
Avoiding red states to avoid being shot would be extremely dumb for many reasons. 1. Cities and neighborhoods in any state can be safe, even in the states with the most shootings 2. If you have enough money to choose to live in another state, you're probably not going to be living in an extremely poor area that is the most likely to be beset with gun violence 3. Other commonplace things are much more likely to kill you than being shot (cars, for example).
- benburleson 3y ago
  Texas sure seems to be an outlier though.
  - theironhammer 3y ago
    Don't mess with Texas. It's already a mess.
  - buzzert 3y ago
    Utah as well. Arizona also has a much higher standard of living than California.
  - TexanFeller 3y ago
    Native Texan living in the city. There has been only one time in my life I was near gun violence and it was 1/2 mile away. That didn't make me hate guns, it just made me consider concealed carrying again. Zero people I know have been near shootings or are worried about shootings, it's a nonissue in the real world and only seems scary because of news coverage.
- CapstanRoller 3y ago
  Mass shootings aren't correlated with poverty. Guns are expensive. Most mass shooters are disaffected folks in the "middle class" who have money to acquire weapons (or access to weapons via relatives) and time to spend immersing themselves in online right-wing cesspits. Actual poor people are too busy trying to grind and survive.
  - dffdsa432 3y ago
    The most violent cities in America are all blue cities. https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/most-violent-cities-in-america https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/most-viol...
    - theironhammer 3y ago
      And most of that is done by drug dealers fighting over turf. The shootings are highly concentrated in certain geographic areas.
    - m0ped 3y ago
      Most cities are blue cities
    - mikeryan 3y ago
      Shit. Your own source disproves that if you use the most recent data https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/most-dangerous-cities-in-the-us https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/most-dang... Take off the minimum population requirement of 100k residents and the most dangerous metro areas are all small, rural conservative towns. https://www.statista.com/statistics/433603/us-metropolitan-areas-with-the-highest-violent-crime-rate/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/433603/us-metropolitan-a...
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        Most of those cities on the less than 100k list have Dems in government as well, but imo this isn't a Dem-GOP issue and more of a "urban" versus "rural" issue - specifically these are all cities that have been left behind due to an oversized population of minorities (eg. Anchorage+Fairbanks for Native Americans, Memphis+Pine Bluffs+Monroe+Alexandria+Little Rock for African Americans, ABQ+Lubbock for Latino Americans) and severely deindustrialized (eg. Memphis, ABQ, Lubbock, Little Rock, Danville) due to bipartisan support of globalization in the 1990s and the collapse of the energy sector in the 1990s-2000s
- theironhammer 3y ago
  Perhaps you should have a look at this book. https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/william-kleinknecht/states-of-neglect/ https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/william-kleinknec... Some Red States are an absolute mess. Some of their stats resemble third world countries. Their education systems are shoddy. Their drinking water systems are dangerous to health. Taxes are shameful: low taxes for the wealthy but high sales taxes which hurt the poor the most. Just for starters.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Not a fan of the GOP and I have actively worked with the DNC, but using HDI (which is the goto metric for comparing development across regions), most US states Red and Blue are roughly comparable to other western European peers. The states that do lag significantly (MS+WV) are comparable to Portugal/Poland/Greece on developmental metrics, but they only represent ~1% of the entire American population and are anomalies due to historical social economic factors (that said, this should not mean that we should give up on them - we should in fact double down and invest in upgrading social infrastructure in laggard states). That said, every single American state and territory fall strictly in the "Very Highly Developed" category from a development standpoint and calling them "3rd world" is only minimizing the actual suffering that exists in less developed countries as well as orientalizing actual poverty upliftment in former "3rd world regions" like China, India, Turkey, Mexico, ASEAN, the Warsaw Bloc, the Balkans, Southern Europe, South America, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. US State HDIs - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_Human_Development_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr... European HDIs - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_Human_Development_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_...
    - theironhammer 3y ago
      Fair enough. From the link, I see that the states with the lowest HDIs are Red States while the highest HDIs are mostly all Blue States.
      - 3y ago
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Most of the gun deaths in red states are suicides. So maybe the states are just very depressing places to live in? Like Wyoming outside of Jackson Hole, is a tough place to l is so has the nation’s highest suicide rate.
  - robotresearcher 3y ago
    Wyoming and Montana have the two highest gun ownership rates of US states, and the two highest suicide rates. It’s probably not a coincidence. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/...
dffdsa432 3y ago
What percentage of gays and minorities were shot in Provo or Lincoln compared to cities like San Francisco and Chicago? I am assuming you have statistics to back your statements. The highest gun violence rates are in heavily blue cities like Detroit, St. Louis, Memphis and Baltimore.
- CapstanRoller 3y ago
  Shooting isn't the only form of repression. It's not even the most prominent or insidious form. There's a big difference between murder and a hate crime. Cop violence isn't counted in murder stats, by the way, because it's "lawful" and they're effectively above the law.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - ESTheComposer 3y ago
    In 2020 California had more hate crime than Texas: https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/hate-crime https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crim... Edit: Actually I checked 2017-2020 and every year had way more hate crimes than Texas. CA has ~33% more population, but had triple the hate crimes. In 2021 CA somehow dropped from thousand+ hate crimes to like 40, so I'm guessing something is up with the data there.
    - shjake 3y ago
      > In 2020 California had more hate crime than Texas Well there were significantly more cases of rape reported in Sweden than in most African or South Asian countries (and I mean up to 40 times more or so…). Something similar might be at play here.
      - ESTheComposer 3y ago
        I understand what you’re getting at but 94% of precincts in Texas reported these stats willingly and 97% in California, so I don’t think it’s underreporting.
dffdsa432 3y ago
This is such a propaganda piece. NYC has a per capita murder rate of 5.5 according to its latest report. There were 40 states with a lower murder rate [1]. The highest murder rates are all in blue cities [2] 1-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_Uni... 2-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
- CapstanRoller 3y ago
  Except we're not talking about overall murder rate, but rather about violence (both individual and systemic) specifically targeted at gender, sexual, and racial minorities.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  your comment keeps confusing, or switching back and forth between, states and cities, which one is your point based on? states were the original topic, and it looks like New York is actually the 2nd lowest by 2019 numbers
diversionfactor 3y ago
The latest CDC Homicide Mortality by State numbers show neither Florida nor Texas even in the top 20: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality... Although many of the highest homicide states are in the South, such as Mississippi and Alabama, many are not, such as New Mexico and Illinois. Region-wise, the contention "the region the Big Apple comprises most of is far and away the safest part of the U.S. mainland when it comes to gun violence" is not supported by the data. Taking the latest FBA violent crimes (2016 is the latest I could find online broken down by Metropolitan Statistical Area) homicide rates per 100,000 inhabitants: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-4 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-... The safest MSAs in America, tied with zero homicides in 2016, are: Albany, OR M.S.A. Bangor, ME M.S.A. Casper, WY M.S.A. Columbus, IN M.S.A. Dalton, GA M.S.A. Danville, IL M.S.A. Iowa City, IA M.S.A. Lewiston-Auburn, ME M.S.A. Missoula, MT M.S.A. Ocean City, NJ M.S.A. Oshkosh-Neenah, WI M.S.A. Rochester, MN M.S.A. St. George, UT M.S.A. These are all relatively small, here are some larger MSAs with lower homicide rates than New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA M.S.A.: Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH M.S.A. Gainesville, FL M.S.A. Midland, TX M.S.A. Santa Fe, NM M.S.A. Urban Honolulu, HI M.S.A. Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR M.S.A College Station-Bryan, TX M.S.A. Fargo, ND-MN M.S.A. Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI M.S.A. Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH M.S.A. Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA M.S.A. El Paso, TX M.S.A. Naples-Immokalee-Marco Island, FL M.S.A. San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA M.S.A. San Diego-Carlsbad, CA M.S.A. Deltona-Daytona Beach-Ormond Beach, FL M.S.A. Thus the contention of "the Big Apple comprises most of is far and away the safest part of the U.S. mainland when it comes to gun violence" does not appear supported by the data. (EDIT: The most violent top 20 MSAs in the USA belie the notion of homicidal violence as being associated with a particular political party, on either side; it is a pan-American issue: Guayama, Puerto Rico M.S.A. San Juan-Carolina-Caguas, Puerto Rico M.S.A. Ponce, Puerto Rico M.S.A. Fairbanks, AK M.S.A. Detroit-Dearborn-Livonia, MI M.D. New Orleans-Metairie, LA M.S.A. Memphis, TN-MS-AR M.S.A. Mayaguez, Puerto Rico M.S.A. Mobile, AL M.S.A. Philadelphia, PA M.D. Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD M.S.A. Savannah, GA M.S.A. Auburn-Opelika, AL M.S.A Flint, MI M.S.A. Hammond, LA M.S.A. Salinas, CA M.S.A. Chicago-Naperville-Arlington Heights, IL M.D. Albany, GA M.S.A. Montgomery, AL M.S.A. Shreveport-Bossier City, LA M.S.A.)
TexanFeller 3y ago
> Florida and Texas belong to have per capita firearm death rates (homicides and suicides) three to four times higher It makes no sense to put suicides in the same bucket as homicides, please stop trying to manipulate the discussion this way. There are more gun deaths from suicide than murder and accidents put together, so it massively skews the numbers.

oatmeal1 3y ago

Avoiding red states to avoid being shot would be extremely dumb for many reasons. 1. Cities and neighborhoods in any state can be safe, even in the states with the most shootings 2. If you have enough money to choose to live in another state, you're probably not going to be living in an extremely poor area that is the most likely to be beset with gun violence 3. Other commonplace things are much more likely to kill you than being shot (cars, for example).

benburleson 3y ago
Texas sure seems to be an outlier though.
- theironhammer 3y ago
  Don't mess with Texas. It's already a mess.
- buzzert 3y ago
  Utah as well. Arizona also has a much higher standard of living than California.
- TexanFeller 3y ago
  Native Texan living in the city. There has been only one time in my life I was near gun violence and it was 1/2 mile away. That didn't make me hate guns, it just made me consider concealed carrying again. Zero people I know have been near shootings or are worried about shootings, it's a nonissue in the real world and only seems scary because of news coverage.
CapstanRoller 3y ago
Mass shootings aren't correlated with poverty. Guns are expensive. Most mass shooters are disaffected folks in the "middle class" who have money to acquire weapons (or access to weapons via relatives) and time to spend immersing themselves in online right-wing cesspits. Actual poor people are too busy trying to grind and survive.
- dffdsa432 3y ago
  The most violent cities in America are all blue cities. https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/most-violent-cities-in-america https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/most-viol...
  - theironhammer 3y ago
    And most of that is done by drug dealers fighting over turf. The shootings are highly concentrated in certain geographic areas.
  - m0ped 3y ago
    Most cities are blue cities
  - mikeryan 3y ago
    Shit. Your own source disproves that if you use the most recent data https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/most-dangerous-cities-in-the-us https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/most-dang... Take off the minimum population requirement of 100k residents and the most dangerous metro areas are all small, rural conservative towns. https://www.statista.com/statistics/433603/us-metropolitan-areas-with-the-highest-violent-crime-rate/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/433603/us-metropolitan-a...
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      Most of those cities on the less than 100k list have Dems in government as well, but imo this isn't a Dem-GOP issue and more of a "urban" versus "rural" issue - specifically these are all cities that have been left behind due to an oversized population of minorities (eg. Anchorage+Fairbanks for Native Americans, Memphis+Pine Bluffs+Monroe+Alexandria+Little Rock for African Americans, ABQ+Lubbock for Latino Americans) and severely deindustrialized (eg. Memphis, ABQ, Lubbock, Little Rock, Danville) due to bipartisan support of globalization in the 1990s and the collapse of the energy sector in the 1990s-2000s
theironhammer 3y ago
Perhaps you should have a look at this book. https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/william-kleinknecht/states-of-neglect/ https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/william-kleinknec... Some Red States are an absolute mess. Some of their stats resemble third world countries. Their education systems are shoddy. Their drinking water systems are dangerous to health. Taxes are shameful: low taxes for the wealthy but high sales taxes which hurt the poor the most. Just for starters.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  Not a fan of the GOP and I have actively worked with the DNC, but using HDI (which is the goto metric for comparing development across regions), most US states Red and Blue are roughly comparable to other western European peers. The states that do lag significantly (MS+WV) are comparable to Portugal/Poland/Greece on developmental metrics, but they only represent ~1% of the entire American population and are anomalies due to historical social economic factors (that said, this should not mean that we should give up on them - we should in fact double down and invest in upgrading social infrastructure in laggard states). That said, every single American state and territory fall strictly in the "Very Highly Developed" category from a development standpoint and calling them "3rd world" is only minimizing the actual suffering that exists in less developed countries as well as orientalizing actual poverty upliftment in former "3rd world regions" like China, India, Turkey, Mexico, ASEAN, the Warsaw Bloc, the Balkans, Southern Europe, South America, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. US State HDIs - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_Human_Development_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr... European HDIs - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_Human_Development_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_...
  - theironhammer 3y ago
    Fair enough. From the link, I see that the states with the lowest HDIs are Red States while the highest HDIs are mostly all Blue States.
    - 3y ago
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Most of the gun deaths in red states are suicides. So maybe the states are just very depressing places to live in? Like Wyoming outside of Jackson Hole, is a tough place to l is so has the nation’s highest suicide rate.
- robotresearcher 3y ago
  Wyoming and Montana have the two highest gun ownership rates of US states, and the two highest suicide rates. It’s probably not a coincidence. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/...

dffdsa432 3y ago

What percentage of gays and minorities were shot in Provo or Lincoln compared to cities like San Francisco and Chicago? I am assuming you have statistics to back your statements. The highest gun violence rates are in heavily blue cities like Detroit, St. Louis, Memphis and Baltimore.

CapstanRoller 3y ago
Shooting isn't the only form of repression. It's not even the most prominent or insidious form. There's a big difference between murder and a hate crime. Cop violence isn't counted in murder stats, by the way, because it's "lawful" and they're effectively above the law.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ESTheComposer 3y ago
  In 2020 California had more hate crime than Texas: https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/hate-crime https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crim... Edit: Actually I checked 2017-2020 and every year had way more hate crimes than Texas. CA has ~33% more population, but had triple the hate crimes. In 2021 CA somehow dropped from thousand+ hate crimes to like 40, so I'm guessing something is up with the data there.
  - shjake 3y ago
    > In 2020 California had more hate crime than Texas Well there were significantly more cases of rape reported in Sweden than in most African or South Asian countries (and I mean up to 40 times more or so…). Something similar might be at play here.
    - ESTheComposer 3y ago
      I understand what you’re getting at but 94% of precincts in Texas reported these stats willingly and 97% in California, so I don’t think it’s underreporting.

dffdsa432 3y ago

This is such a propaganda piece. NYC has a per capita murder rate of 5.5 according to its latest report. There were 40 states with a lower murder rate [1]. The highest murder rates are all in blue cities [2] 1-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_Uni... 2-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

CapstanRoller 3y ago
Except we're not talking about overall murder rate, but rather about violence (both individual and systemic) specifically targeted at gender, sexual, and racial minorities.
ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
your comment keeps confusing, or switching back and forth between, states and cities, which one is your point based on? states were the original topic, and it looks like New York is actually the 2nd lowest by 2019 numbers

diversionfactor 3y ago

The latest CDC Homicide Mortality by State numbers show neither Florida nor Texas even in the top 20: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality... Although many of the highest homicide states are in the South, such as Mississippi and Alabama, many are not, such as New Mexico and Illinois. Region-wise, the contention "the region the Big Apple comprises most of is far and away the safest part of the U.S. mainland when it comes to gun violence" is not supported by the data. Taking the latest FBA violent crimes (2016 is the latest I could find online broken down by Metropolitan Statistical Area) homicide rates per 100,000 inhabitants: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-4 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-... The safest MSAs in America, tied with zero homicides in 2016, are: Albany, OR M.S.A. Bangor, ME M.S.A. Casper, WY M.S.A. Columbus, IN M.S.A. Dalton, GA M.S.A. Danville, IL M.S.A. Iowa City, IA M.S.A. Lewiston-Auburn, ME M.S.A. Missoula, MT M.S.A. Ocean City, NJ M.S.A. Oshkosh-Neenah, WI M.S.A. Rochester, MN M.S.A. St. George, UT M.S.A. These are all relatively small, here are some larger MSAs with lower homicide rates than New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA M.S.A.: Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH M.S.A. Gainesville, FL M.S.A. Midland, TX M.S.A. Santa Fe, NM M.S.A. Urban Honolulu, HI M.S.A. Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR M.S.A College Station-Bryan, TX M.S.A. Fargo, ND-MN M.S.A. Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI M.S.A. Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH M.S.A. Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA M.S.A. El Paso, TX M.S.A. Naples-Immokalee-Marco Island, FL M.S.A. San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA M.S.A. San Diego-Carlsbad, CA M.S.A. Deltona-Daytona Beach-Ormond Beach, FL M.S.A. Thus the contention of "the Big Apple comprises most of is far and away the safest part of the U.S. mainland when it comes to gun violence" does not appear supported by the data. (EDIT: The most violent top 20 MSAs in the USA belie the notion of homicidal violence as being associated with a particular political party, on either side; it is a pan-American issue: Guayama, Puerto Rico M.S.A. San Juan-Carolina-Caguas, Puerto Rico M.S.A. Ponce, Puerto Rico M.S.A. Fairbanks, AK M.S.A. Detroit-Dearborn-Livonia, MI M.D. New Orleans-Metairie, LA M.S.A. Memphis, TN-MS-AR M.S.A. Mayaguez, Puerto Rico M.S.A. Mobile, AL M.S.A. Philadelphia, PA M.D. Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD M.S.A. Savannah, GA M.S.A. Auburn-Opelika, AL M.S.A Flint, MI M.S.A. Hammond, LA M.S.A. Salinas, CA M.S.A. Chicago-Naperville-Arlington Heights, IL M.D. Albany, GA M.S.A. Montgomery, AL M.S.A. Shreveport-Bossier City, LA M.S.A.)

TexanFeller 3y ago

> Florida and Texas belong to have per capita firearm death rates (homicides and suicides) three to four times higher It makes no sense to put suicides in the same bucket as homicides, please stop trying to manipulate the discussion this way. There are more gun deaths from suicide than murder and accidents put together, so it massively skews the numbers.