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Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas. I'm a liberal-leaning moderate but many of my favorite people (friends and family

Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas. I'm a liberal-leaning moderate but many of my favorite people (friends and family) are conservative, and many of my hobbies tend to be populated mainly by the conservative demographic. You'll always find people here and there who won't give you the time of day if you're not on Team Blue or Team Red, but my take on it is, if I can't make friends with people who hold beliefs different from my own, then maybe I'm the asshole. That said, if it really matters that much to you, you'll find plenty of swing states with mid-sized cities in the Midwest. Upsides are low cost of living, 20 minutes from the center of the city to cornfields. Downsides are you can't go too far north if you don't like cold winters. No area is thriving right now thanks to the recession, but it sounds like you are aiming for remote work anyway, so why does that matter? If I were in your shoes, I would pick a place that has the geography, climate, and cost of living I am looking for and not worry so much about the politics and economic prospects of the area.

ejb999 3y ago
>> if I can't make friends with people who hold beliefs different from my own, then maybe I'm the asshole. Well said...and true.
- jkubicek 3y ago
  When folks say stuff like this, I feel like they're imagining two buddies arguing over tax reform or something. I'm absolutely fine being friends with someone who has conservative economic beliefs. What I'm not fine with is being friendly with someone who supports policies designed to hurt my friends and family.
  - bityard 3y ago
    It turns out that befriending people who hold opposite and even toxic opinions is actually a great way to bring them back to more moderate and rational thinking. There is a Jordan Harbinger podcast about a black man who single-handedly dismantled multiple KKK clans literally by befriending them. The trick is to approach the other person with curiosity and reason, not with judgement and adversity. Not everyone can be talked out of being a racist (or whateverist) of course but at the end of the day we all have more in common than we have in difference and a surprising number of people are willing to change their views on an entire demographic if they aren't being shouted at, shamed, or just silently shunned.
    - CapstanRoller 3y ago
      Why are you putting the onus on victims to befriend and "convert" their oppressors? Seriously, what the fuck.
      - tayo42 3y ago
        Life is to short to put up with that. If others want to do that and make it something important in their life good for them.
      - ejb999 3y ago
        When someone disagree's with your point of view, you are thus a victim? I think I see the problem here.
        jlokier 3y ago
        "Disagree with a point of view" and "don't want to be beaten up" (an example) are not in the same ballpark. People are undoubtedly victims if they get beaten up or have to live under daily threat of it. (Again, example). That is relevant to the KKK a few comments up. It's not that long ago the KKK wouldn't stop at beating someone up, when they could get away with torture and murder and be let off by juries who approved - in some states. Replace "beaten up" with any other kind of serious harm to get the point. There are plenty of examples today, whether you care to recognise them or not.
        CapstanRoller 3y ago
        >disagree Trans people are having their civil rights stripped away, and some are being murdered.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
Oh I can make friends. What I can't do is get an abortion or in good faith tell my lgbt child that I support them. I deeply believe that unwanted children make society worse so expect abortion banning states to become less desirable in 15-20 years.
- candiddevmike 3y ago
  What's wrong with your kids being LGBT? Why wouldn't you support that?
  - striking 3y ago
    I think the parent comment is suggesting you can't move to such an area and say you're supporting your LGBT child, that it would be in bad faith to tell them you support them having made the choice to move there. Or in other words, perhaps they'd like to say they support their child, but it'd be disingenuous.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    Some red states are beginning to enact legislation that makes it more difficult for lgbt children to come to terms with who they are. I think the abortion issue is a much bigger deal, but I would definitely feel guilty about raising a lgbt child in that environment.
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bugglebeetle 3y ago
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mschuster91 3y ago
> Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas. Of course it is. Imagine your daughter getting pregnant and being unable to abort the pregnancy even if her survival would be at stake, or your son ending up gay or trans? Both of these not-unlikely events can have real, deadly impact depending if you are living in a red vs purple or blue state! > but my take on it is, if I can't make friends with people who hold beliefs different from my own, then maybe I'm the asshole. These people may simply beat you or your children up for not conforming to their narrow worldview. Hate crimes have exploded since 2016, and on top of that comes the everyday gun violence. Beliefs are one thing - I'm a socialist and still enjoy debating with libertarians. But some things - like the right to self-determination about your body, reproduction and sexuality or the freedom to believe in anything else (or nothing) but Jesus - these are existential questions, and I cannot (and do not) reasonably engage in discussion with someone who 'd like to see me or my friends and family dead.
elieri 3y ago
If you're a person who anticipates ever needing reproductive health care, it's not a matter of Team Blue versus Team Red. It's not limited to elective abortion either. See e.g. https://katv.com/news/nation-world/idaho-hospital-to-end-baby-deliveries-over-state-abortion-laws-doctors-leaving-state-bonner-general-health-sandpoint-womens-health-mark-sauter-illana-rubel-megan-blanksma https://katv.com/news/nation-world/idaho-hospital-to-end-bab... https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/04/21/abortion-ban-states-obgyn-residency-applications/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/04/21/abortion-ba...
slg 3y ago
>Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas. I'm a liberal-leaning moderate but many of my favorite people (friends and family) are conservative, and many of my hobbies tend to be populated mainly by the conservative demographic. This is a comment that originates in privilege. The concern for many people is not simply that they would have to be friends with conservative people. The concern is that the government and the local community will be hostile to them. This is true for a variety of targeted groups including LGBT+ people, ethnic minorities, or even just women. For example, it is objectively riskier to be pregnant in places like Kansas City because local abortion laws rule out certain medical procedures that could save the mother's life[1]. That isn't something a woman in a blue state needs to worry about. [1] - https://www.kansascity.com/news/business/health-care/article274915931.html https://www.kansascity.com/news/business/health-care/article...
- justinzollars 3y ago
  This is a very preachy church lady like response.
  - slg 3y ago
    Maybe, but is anything I said inaccurate? Try telling a trans person that the local political environment shouldn't impact their decision on where to live. Your best case scenario is an eye roll. Only certain people are given the freedom to ignore politics.
    - mattcaldwell 3y ago
      Trans woman here, can confirm eye roll.
      - nervlord 3y ago
        [dead]
    - iinnPP 3y ago
      Yes, tell people how they ought behave in order to meet your view of them.
Tiktaalik 3y ago
The thing is that personal politics don't end up being a personal thing because they result in real policies that guide real material outcomes. At this point saying one is uninterested in living in a red state could be about party politics, but it also could just as much about not being inclined to subject onesself to starkly higher risks of being shot and killed (the outcome of someone's personal politics). eg. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising... > In reality, the region the Big Apple comprises most of is far and away the safest part of the U.S. mainland when it comes to gun violence, while the regions Florida and Texas belong to have per capita firearm death rates (homicides and suicides) three to four times higher than New York’s. On a regional basis it’s the southern swath of the country — in cities and rural areas alike — where the rate of deadly gun violence is most acute, regions where Republicans have dominated state governments for decades.
- oatmeal1 3y ago
  Avoiding red states to avoid being shot would be extremely dumb for many reasons. 1. Cities and neighborhoods in any state can be safe, even in the states with the most shootings 2. If you have enough money to choose to live in another state, you're probably not going to be living in an extremely poor area that is the most likely to be beset with gun violence 3. Other commonplace things are much more likely to kill you than being shot (cars, for example).
  - benburleson 3y ago
    Texas sure seems to be an outlier though.
    - theironhammer 3y ago
      Don't mess with Texas. It's already a mess.
    - buzzert 3y ago
      Utah as well. Arizona also has a much higher standard of living than California.
neilv 3y ago
> Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas. > but my take on it is, if I can't make friends with people who hold beliefs different from my own, then maybe I'm the asshole. It's not only about getting along with people on an individual level. "Politics" is why Massachusetts has a social safety net for many, there are abortion rights, the first gay marriage in the US was a short walk away, my trans neighbor can walk down the street without being hassled, there's countless different flavors of churches and other religious meeting places (as well as many seculars), and education and science are generally valued. And when some people traveled to Boston to promote aggressive right-wing ideas, an overwhelming number of locals showed up to tell them to take a hike, and sent the message that they had the backs of the people the clowns were threatening. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Free_Speech_Rally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Free_Speech_Rally This Blue State is far from perfect, but I see plenty of practical reasons for someone like myself to live here rather than in a Red State, no matter how nice and decent the typical Red State resident might be.
CapstanRoller 3y ago
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- refurb 3y ago
  Why can’t a trans person “make friends with someone who hold beliefs different than their own”? Nobody is saying “make friends with someone who hates you”. That’s true of anyone. But can a trans person make friends with someone who disagrees on that minors should be able to start transition therapy without informing their parents? Sure, why not? If you can’t be friends with people who don’t hold 100% of the same political views you do, you’re going to have a very lonely life.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Note the word “maybe” and it might be easier to read charitably.
RavingGoat 3y ago
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dragonwriter 3y ago
> Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas. Policy climate can br a very good reason to avoid living in certain areas. Failure to recognize this in time can be a very bad way to avoid living entirely. > I'm a liberal-leaning moderate but many of my favorite people (friends and family) are conservative, and many of my hobbies tend to be populated mainly by the conservative demographic. I have had friends all over the political spectrum, but “ability to make friends” is not the reason people avoid particular political climates. If you are privileged enough not to need to ubderstand that, congratulations. > No area is thriving right now thanks to the recession What recession?
- dllthomas 3y ago
  > > Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas. > Policy climate can br a very good reason to avoid living in certain areas. While there's clearly substantial overlap, I think there can be an important difference between choosing not to live somewhere because your personal politics disagree with the norm there, and choosing not to live somewhere because of the actual impact of the policies that are or may be implemented there.
mattcaldwell 3y ago
Is it not a good reason to avoid living in red states if your rights are being taken away? I'd love to keep living in my blue city in the south, but I'd also love to keep getting the health care I need.
frozenport 3y ago
Red states fuck up the eduction system. What you going to do if your kid tries to make America Great Again, daughter needs an abortion.
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dumbotron 3y ago
> No area is thriving right now thanks to the recession We're not really in a recession. Tech was probably in a recession in 2022, but Google and Meta both had good earnings reports, so maybe we're through that. Finance is having its own issues. Everyone else is a little nervous, but doing ok, except for inflation.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
> Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas State laws have benefited me or the people I care about in the following ways: -my wife had 8 more weeks of parental leave -16 of my wife’s parental leave weeks were paid leave from the state’s family leave act -state laws provide paid family and medical leave in case I should need it in the future -my wife and daughter have an easy time finding access to all women’s healthcare, and will not have to worry about their body and well being being sacrificed during pregnancy -minimum wage laws require a much higher minimum exempt salary, and overtime laws prevent having to work all day without commensurate pay -non compete bans ensure we have a more balanced playing field against employers -free breakfast and lunch in school for all kids I cannot list them all, and it is not all rainbows and sunshine, but claiming that the way a state is managed has little effect on one’s life is nonsense.
- LeanderK 3y ago
  There are also LGBTQ rights. What if your child ends up coming out to you? Just because you're not part of it is not a valid reason. It's like saying you don't care about racism because you don't personally experience it even though you don't belong to a minority yourself.
  - matthewaveryusa 3y ago
    I think the default is not to care about anything that doesn't affect you personally. I think it's the wrong approach to think folks should care because it's so obvious to you that they should. It's far more effective to explain why someone should care from their point of you than hand-waving 'everyone should care about racism because racism bad'

ejb999 3y ago

>> if I can't make friends with people who hold beliefs different from my own, then maybe I'm the asshole. Well said...and true.

jkubicek 3y ago
When folks say stuff like this, I feel like they're imagining two buddies arguing over tax reform or something. I'm absolutely fine being friends with someone who has conservative economic beliefs. What I'm not fine with is being friendly with someone who supports policies designed to hurt my friends and family.
- bityard 3y ago
  It turns out that befriending people who hold opposite and even toxic opinions is actually a great way to bring them back to more moderate and rational thinking. There is a Jordan Harbinger podcast about a black man who single-handedly dismantled multiple KKK clans literally by befriending them. The trick is to approach the other person with curiosity and reason, not with judgement and adversity. Not everyone can be talked out of being a racist (or whateverist) of course but at the end of the day we all have more in common than we have in difference and a surprising number of people are willing to change their views on an entire demographic if they aren't being shouted at, shamed, or just silently shunned.
  - CapstanRoller 3y ago
    Why are you putting the onus on victims to befriend and "convert" their oppressors? Seriously, what the fuck.
    - tayo42 3y ago
      Life is to short to put up with that. If others want to do that and make it something important in their life good for them.
    - ejb999 3y ago
      When someone disagree's with your point of view, you are thus a victim? I think I see the problem here.
      - jlokier 3y ago
        "Disagree with a point of view" and "don't want to be beaten up" (an example) are not in the same ballpark. People are undoubtedly victims if they get beaten up or have to live under daily threat of it. (Again, example). That is relevant to the KKK a few comments up. It's not that long ago the KKK wouldn't stop at beating someone up, when they could get away with torture and murder and be let off by juries who approved - in some states. Replace "beaten up" with any other kind of serious harm to get the point. There are plenty of examples today, whether you care to recognise them or not.
      - CapstanRoller 3y ago
        >disagree Trans people are having their civil rights stripped away, and some are being murdered.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

Oh I can make friends. What I can't do is get an abortion or in good faith tell my lgbt child that I support them. I deeply believe that unwanted children make society worse so expect abortion banning states to become less desirable in 15-20 years.

candiddevmike 3y ago
What's wrong with your kids being LGBT? Why wouldn't you support that?
- striking 3y ago
  I think the parent comment is suggesting you can't move to such an area and say you're supporting your LGBT child, that it would be in bad faith to tell them you support them having made the choice to move there. Or in other words, perhaps they'd like to say they support their child, but it'd be disingenuous.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  Some red states are beginning to enact legislation that makes it more difficult for lgbt children to come to terms with who they are. I think the abortion issue is a much bigger deal, but I would definitely feel guilty about raising a lgbt child in that environment.
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bugglebeetle 3y ago

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mschuster91 3y ago

> Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas. Of course it is. Imagine your daughter getting pregnant and being unable to abort the pregnancy even if her survival would be at stake, or your son ending up gay or trans? Both of these not-unlikely events can have real, deadly impact depending if you are living in a red vs purple or blue state! > but my take on it is, if I can't make friends with people who hold beliefs different from my own, then maybe I'm the asshole. These people may simply beat you or your children up for not conforming to their narrow worldview. Hate crimes have exploded since 2016, and on top of that comes the everyday gun violence. Beliefs are one thing - I'm a socialist and still enjoy debating with libertarians. But some things - like the right to self-determination about your body, reproduction and sexuality or the freedom to believe in anything else (or nothing) but Jesus - these are existential questions, and I cannot (and do not) reasonably engage in discussion with someone who 'd like to see me or my friends and family dead.

elieri 3y ago

If you're a person who anticipates ever needing reproductive health care, it's not a matter of Team Blue versus Team Red. It's not limited to elective abortion either. See e.g. https://katv.com/news/nation-world/idaho-hospital-to-end-baby-deliveries-over-state-abortion-laws-doctors-leaving-state-bonner-general-health-sandpoint-womens-health-mark-sauter-illana-rubel-megan-blanksma https://katv.com/news/nation-world/idaho-hospital-to-end-bab... https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/04/21/abortion-ban-states-obgyn-residency-applications/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/04/21/abortion-ba...

slg 3y ago

>Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas. I'm a liberal-leaning moderate but many of my favorite people (friends and family) are conservative, and many of my hobbies tend to be populated mainly by the conservative demographic. This is a comment that originates in privilege. The concern for many people is not simply that they would have to be friends with conservative people. The concern is that the government and the local community will be hostile to them. This is true for a variety of targeted groups including LGBT+ people, ethnic minorities, or even just women. For example, it is objectively riskier to be pregnant in places like Kansas City because local abortion laws rule out certain medical procedures that could save the mother's life[1]. That isn't something a woman in a blue state needs to worry about. [1] - https://www.kansascity.com/news/business/health-care/article274915931.html https://www.kansascity.com/news/business/health-care/article...

justinzollars 3y ago
This is a very preachy church lady like response.
- slg 3y ago
  Maybe, but is anything I said inaccurate? Try telling a trans person that the local political environment shouldn't impact their decision on where to live. Your best case scenario is an eye roll. Only certain people are given the freedom to ignore politics.
  - mattcaldwell 3y ago
    Trans woman here, can confirm eye roll.
    - nervlord 3y ago
      [dead]
  - iinnPP 3y ago
    Yes, tell people how they ought behave in order to meet your view of them.

Tiktaalik 3y ago

The thing is that personal politics don't end up being a personal thing because they result in real policies that guide real material outcomes. At this point saying one is uninterested in living in a red state could be about party politics, but it also could just as much about not being inclined to subject onesself to starkly higher risks of being shot and killed (the outcome of someone's personal politics). eg. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising... > In reality, the region the Big Apple comprises most of is far and away the safest part of the U.S. mainland when it comes to gun violence, while the regions Florida and Texas belong to have per capita firearm death rates (homicides and suicides) three to four times higher than New York’s. On a regional basis it’s the southern swath of the country — in cities and rural areas alike — where the rate of deadly gun violence is most acute, regions where Republicans have dominated state governments for decades.

oatmeal1 3y ago
Avoiding red states to avoid being shot would be extremely dumb for many reasons. 1. Cities and neighborhoods in any state can be safe, even in the states with the most shootings 2. If you have enough money to choose to live in another state, you're probably not going to be living in an extremely poor area that is the most likely to be beset with gun violence 3. Other commonplace things are much more likely to kill you than being shot (cars, for example).
- benburleson 3y ago
  Texas sure seems to be an outlier though.
  - theironhammer 3y ago
    Don't mess with Texas. It's already a mess.
  - buzzert 3y ago
    Utah as well. Arizona also has a much higher standard of living than California.

neilv 3y ago

> Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas. > but my take on it is, if I can't make friends with people who hold beliefs different from my own, then maybe I'm the asshole. It's not only about getting along with people on an individual level. "Politics" is why Massachusetts has a social safety net for many, there are abortion rights, the first gay marriage in the US was a short walk away, my trans neighbor can walk down the street without being hassled, there's countless different flavors of churches and other religious meeting places (as well as many seculars), and education and science are generally valued. And when some people traveled to Boston to promote aggressive right-wing ideas, an overwhelming number of locals showed up to tell them to take a hike, and sent the message that they had the backs of the people the clowns were threatening. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Free_Speech_Rally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Free_Speech_Rally This Blue State is far from perfect, but I see plenty of practical reasons for someone like myself to live here rather than in a Red State, no matter how nice and decent the typical Red State resident might be.

CapstanRoller 3y ago

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fundad 3y ago
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bityard 3y ago
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- CapstanRoller 3y ago
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refurb 3y ago
Why can’t a trans person “make friends with someone who hold beliefs different than their own”? Nobody is saying “make friends with someone who hates you”. That’s true of anyone. But can a trans person make friends with someone who disagrees on that minors should be able to start transition therapy without informing their parents? Sure, why not? If you can’t be friends with people who don’t hold 100% of the same political views you do, you’re going to have a very lonely life.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
Note the word “maybe” and it might be easier to read charitably.

RavingGoat 3y ago

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dragonwriter 3y ago

> Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas. Policy climate can br a very good reason to avoid living in certain areas. Failure to recognize this in time can be a very bad way to avoid living entirely. > I'm a liberal-leaning moderate but many of my favorite people (friends and family) are conservative, and many of my hobbies tend to be populated mainly by the conservative demographic. I have had friends all over the political spectrum, but “ability to make friends” is not the reason people avoid particular political climates. If you are privileged enough not to need to ubderstand that, congratulations. > No area is thriving right now thanks to the recession What recession?

dllthomas 3y ago
> > Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas. > Policy climate can br a very good reason to avoid living in certain areas. While there's clearly substantial overlap, I think there can be an important difference between choosing not to live somewhere because your personal politics disagree with the norm there, and choosing not to live somewhere because of the actual impact of the policies that are or may be implemented there.

mattcaldwell 3y ago

Is it not a good reason to avoid living in red states if your rights are being taken away? I'd love to keep living in my blue city in the south, but I'd also love to keep getting the health care I need.

frozenport 3y ago

Red states fuck up the eduction system. What you going to do if your kid tries to make America Great Again, daughter needs an abortion.

dang 3y ago
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

dumbotron 3y ago

> No area is thriving right now thanks to the recession We're not really in a recession. Tech was probably in a recession in 2022, but Google and Meta both had good earnings reports, so maybe we're through that. Finance is having its own issues. Everyone else is a little nervous, but doing ok, except for inflation.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

> Personal politics, IMO, is not a good reason to avoid living in certain areas State laws have benefited me or the people I care about in the following ways: -my wife had 8 more weeks of parental leave -16 of my wife’s parental leave weeks were paid leave from the state’s family leave act -state laws provide paid family and medical leave in case I should need it in the future -my wife and daughter have an easy time finding access to all women’s healthcare, and will not have to worry about their body and well being being sacrificed during pregnancy -minimum wage laws require a much higher minimum exempt salary, and overtime laws prevent having to work all day without commensurate pay -non compete bans ensure we have a more balanced playing field against employers -free breakfast and lunch in school for all kids I cannot list them all, and it is not all rainbows and sunshine, but claiming that the way a state is managed has little effect on one’s life is nonsense.

LeanderK 3y ago
There are also LGBTQ rights. What if your child ends up coming out to you? Just because you're not part of it is not a valid reason. It's like saying you don't care about racism because you don't personally experience it even though you don't belong to a minority yourself.
- matthewaveryusa 3y ago
  I think the default is not to care about anything that doesn't affect you personally. I think it's the wrong approach to think folks should care because it's so obvious to you that they should. It's far more effective to explain why someone should care from their point of you than hand-waving 'everyone should care about racism because racism bad'