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Parents have not idea whatsoever of the destruction that phones have wrought on the education system, both in the large and in the small. Students who claim oth

Parents have not idea whatsoever of the destruction that phones have wrought on the education system, both in the large and in the small. Students who claim otherwise are gaslighting their parents. Parents are unfortunately all too willing to believe the lies because of course their child is above average and would never completely tune out of class for another hit on the electronic crack pipe. At this point, the problem has become too entrenched to actually do anything. Parents have come to the mistaken conclusion that Johnny needs a smartphone to keep in touch during the day (why exactly is a great question). Administrators have more or less given up. And without backup from administrators, teachers are left to fend for themselves. The ones who step in to take phones away, or deal with the problem in any meaningful way face threats to their physical well-being. The tethering of kids to parents via phones is a tragedy of biblical proportions, but the effects will not be obvious for a few years yet. Education is just the obvious flash point.

GalenErso 3y ago
I didn't get my first real phone until after high school, while everyone else had one. I graduated salutatorian. I was able to focus on my homework after school for hours without distractions. I had a computer at home, but it was pretty crappy.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- tymekpavel 3y ago
  There are also many students who have phones in high school and graduate valedictorian, so I’m not sure we can draw any conclusions.
  - ungamedplayer 3y ago
    Quality measurements and citation needed.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  Sure you're able to complete school work without a phone. You're not able to have a normal social life though and for many parents that is more important than academic success.
  - frumper 3y ago
    This statement makes me question what a normal social life is, or isn’t.
    - hammyhavoc 3y ago
      It is being able to communicate and organize efficiently. It isn't doomscrolling and posting endless selfies for dopamine.
- 11101010001100 3y ago
  How's your focus now?
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  I didn't get a phone until after high school and everyone else had one. I didn't graduate salutatorian, I was miserable and lonely because I got left out of anything outside of school by my friends because I didn't have a phone. I still don't have many friends to this day and I sometimes wonder if my lack of a social experience in high school crippled my ability to develop friendships. So I mean.. maybe there's different outcomes. Not having a phone doesn't automatically make you productive.
zeroonetwothree 3y ago
I didn’t have a phone until college but I still didn’t pay attention in class in high school. It seems like a fantasy to think that if not for smartphones students would be happily sitting quietly listening to teachers, then go home and studiously do their homework. That’s just never been the case at any point in history.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Ya, same. The classes weren’t engaging, I did better just reading the book and doing homework in class. I hope my kid gets more out of the education system than I did, or maybe he will have better options like starting college early.
- thfuran 3y ago
  And people can still get hurt in car accidents, so we should just get rid of seatbelts, airbags, and crumple zones and dispense with the illusion of safety.
- ethbr0 3y ago
  IMHO, there's a big difference between doodling, making paper airplanes, trying to wordlessly communicate with friends, etc. vs cell phones. At minimum, the previous boredom regime taught you how to (a) be okay with nothing happening & (b) use your creativity to amuse yourself using the materials and capabilities at hand. Both of those skills seem to have atrophied in post-smartphone generations.
yamtaddle 3y ago
> Parents have come to the mistaken conclusion that Johnny needs a smartphone to keep in touch during the day (why exactly is a great question). My wife's had parents call their kids in class. Just to, like, chat.
- ilikecakeandpie 3y ago
  This is absolutely ridiculous to me. There's no way that parent could think that's acceptable. Do they not remember being in school? If you want to see your kid, come have lunch with them one day or something like that
  - dagw 3y ago
    There has developed this consensus over the past few years (which you also see reflected here on HN quite a lot) that school is essentially pointless and waste of time. If that is what you as a parent believe, then why should you take it seriously or care about what rules or wishes the school has?
    - ethbr0 3y ago
      What did these people not learn in school? I know there are autodidactic folks, but I would know substantially less basic math, biology, chemistry, English, and history if I hadn't gone to grade school.
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    This might be viewed as inappropriate to have uninvited adults on-site, even if they are parents.
    - ilikecakeandpie 3y ago
      Possibly, but parents/elders coming to have lunch their child/family member is a pretty common practice. Not every day, for sure, but I always thought it was great whenever my older sister or parent/grandparent came to visit me for lunch when I was younger. I'm sure they coordinated with the office, it's not like they just showed up out of the blue. I would hope the world hasn't changed that much, but maybe it has
mdgrech23 3y ago
Let's be real - parents want their kids to have phones at school b/c of school shootings.
- Brusco_RF 3y ago
  I'm a parent, and no that's not true at all. How would that even help?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- jstarfish 3y ago
  The bullet-stopping ability of the iPhone leaves a lot to be desired.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  Security theater, really. Most mass shooting happen very quickly. Even if that kid can call 911 instantly, it's not gonna stop a buncha people from getting killed. The Virginia Tech shooter, armed with 1 x 9mm pistol and 1 x .22LR pistol, killed 30 people (including himself) in roughly 8 minutes. Even with perfect knowledge and alerting there is no way police would be able to get there in time. Similar timelines for many recent shootings, with Uvalde being a notable and egregious outlier -- the cops were on site very quickly but didn't go in, the bloody cowards. With iPhone or not, the reality is little Timmy is gonna catch two to the chest if something goes down.
ido 3y ago
Is this an American thing? Here in Germany my son is not allowed to have a phone at school. He doesn't have one anyway, but kids that do have to give up their phones in the morning, which are in a locked box and they get them back in the afternoon when they go home. Nobody ever asked us about it, it's simply school policy.
- throwaway50603 3y ago
  It's a worldwide thing. I'm in a country neighboring Germany and it's perfectly normal that everybody has a smartphone. The schools have policies that it has to be turned off but they can't touch the phone at all.
- raarts 3y ago
  Right now this is also subject of debate in The Netherlands.
  - than3 3y ago
    There really isn't much to debate. Kids are developmentally unable to cope with addiction. Even adults have a hard time, with training, support, and wasted life experience with regard to online gaming. They may move past that addiction, but never really get over it. Current times are just the flashpoint where parents and schools have largely abandoned their core responsibilities.
    - raarts 3y ago
      Completely agree.
    - throwaway50603 3y ago
      There is a lot to debate. I don't agree with this "addiction" argument at all. My siblings (much younger, school age) don't have social media by their own volition. Apparently they're immune to this addiction - or perhaps it's not really addiction, but something different. Taking away their phones because others can't handle themselves is wrong. So yeah, a lot to debate.

GalenErso 3y ago

I didn't get my first real phone until after high school, while everyone else had one. I graduated salutatorian. I was able to focus on my homework after school for hours without distractions. I had a computer at home, but it was pretty crappy.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tymekpavel 3y ago
There are also many students who have phones in high school and graduate valedictorian, so I’m not sure we can draw any conclusions.
- ungamedplayer 3y ago
  Quality measurements and citation needed.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
Sure you're able to complete school work without a phone. You're not able to have a normal social life though and for many parents that is more important than academic success.
- frumper 3y ago
  This statement makes me question what a normal social life is, or isn’t.
  - hammyhavoc 3y ago
    It is being able to communicate and organize efficiently. It isn't doomscrolling and posting endless selfies for dopamine.
11101010001100 3y ago
How's your focus now?
bluefirebrand 3y ago
I didn't get a phone until after high school and everyone else had one. I didn't graduate salutatorian, I was miserable and lonely because I got left out of anything outside of school by my friends because I didn't have a phone. I still don't have many friends to this day and I sometimes wonder if my lack of a social experience in high school crippled my ability to develop friendships. So I mean.. maybe there's different outcomes. Not having a phone doesn't automatically make you productive.

zeroonetwothree 3y ago

I didn’t have a phone until college but I still didn’t pay attention in class in high school. It seems like a fantasy to think that if not for smartphones students would be happily sitting quietly listening to teachers, then go home and studiously do their homework. That’s just never been the case at any point in history.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Ya, same. The classes weren’t engaging, I did better just reading the book and doing homework in class. I hope my kid gets more out of the education system than I did, or maybe he will have better options like starting college early.
thfuran 3y ago
And people can still get hurt in car accidents, so we should just get rid of seatbelts, airbags, and crumple zones and dispense with the illusion of safety.
ethbr0 3y ago
IMHO, there's a big difference between doodling, making paper airplanes, trying to wordlessly communicate with friends, etc. vs cell phones. At minimum, the previous boredom regime taught you how to (a) be okay with nothing happening & (b) use your creativity to amuse yourself using the materials and capabilities at hand. Both of those skills seem to have atrophied in post-smartphone generations.

yamtaddle 3y ago

> Parents have come to the mistaken conclusion that Johnny needs a smartphone to keep in touch during the day (why exactly is a great question). My wife's had parents call their kids in class. Just to, like, chat.

ilikecakeandpie 3y ago
This is absolutely ridiculous to me. There's no way that parent could think that's acceptable. Do they not remember being in school? If you want to see your kid, come have lunch with them one day or something like that
- dagw 3y ago
  There has developed this consensus over the past few years (which you also see reflected here on HN quite a lot) that school is essentially pointless and waste of time. If that is what you as a parent believe, then why should you take it seriously or care about what rules or wishes the school has?
  - ethbr0 3y ago
    What did these people not learn in school? I know there are autodidactic folks, but I would know substantially less basic math, biology, chemistry, English, and history if I hadn't gone to grade school.
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  This might be viewed as inappropriate to have uninvited adults on-site, even if they are parents.
  - ilikecakeandpie 3y ago
    Possibly, but parents/elders coming to have lunch their child/family member is a pretty common practice. Not every day, for sure, but I always thought it was great whenever my older sister or parent/grandparent came to visit me for lunch when I was younger. I'm sure they coordinated with the office, it's not like they just showed up out of the blue. I would hope the world hasn't changed that much, but maybe it has

mdgrech23 3y ago

Let's be real - parents want their kids to have phones at school b/c of school shootings.

Brusco_RF 3y ago
I'm a parent, and no that's not true at all. How would that even help?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
jstarfish 3y ago
The bullet-stopping ability of the iPhone leaves a lot to be desired.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
Security theater, really. Most mass shooting happen very quickly. Even if that kid can call 911 instantly, it's not gonna stop a buncha people from getting killed. The Virginia Tech shooter, armed with 1 x 9mm pistol and 1 x .22LR pistol, killed 30 people (including himself) in roughly 8 minutes. Even with perfect knowledge and alerting there is no way police would be able to get there in time. Similar timelines for many recent shootings, with Uvalde being a notable and egregious outlier -- the cops were on site very quickly but didn't go in, the bloody cowards. With iPhone or not, the reality is little Timmy is gonna catch two to the chest if something goes down.

ido 3y ago

Is this an American thing? Here in Germany my son is not allowed to have a phone at school. He doesn't have one anyway, but kids that do have to give up their phones in the morning, which are in a locked box and they get them back in the afternoon when they go home. Nobody ever asked us about it, it's simply school policy.

throwaway50603 3y ago
It's a worldwide thing. I'm in a country neighboring Germany and it's perfectly normal that everybody has a smartphone. The schools have policies that it has to be turned off but they can't touch the phone at all.
raarts 3y ago
Right now this is also subject of debate in The Netherlands.
- than3 3y ago
  There really isn't much to debate. Kids are developmentally unable to cope with addiction. Even adults have a hard time, with training, support, and wasted life experience with regard to online gaming. They may move past that addiction, but never really get over it. Current times are just the flashpoint where parents and schools have largely abandoned their core responsibilities.
  - raarts 3y ago
    Completely agree.
  - throwaway50603 3y ago
    There is a lot to debate. I don't agree with this "addiction" argument at all. My siblings (much younger, school age) don't have social media by their own volition. Apparently they're immune to this addiction - or perhaps it's not really addiction, but something different. Taking away their phones because others can't handle themselves is wrong. So yeah, a lot to debate.