6 ms·

The man who invented the modern cop novel

73 points by background 3y ago

version_five 3y ago
This says 1971, Martin Beck was earlier. I'd argue Maigret counts as well. The author mentions Chandler but I would never have considered those "police procedurals".
- CharleFKane 3y ago
  I enjoy the Wambaugh I’ve read, but I had some issues with this article. Version_five is right about Martin Beck. (I wouldn’t count Maigret or Chandler as “police procedurals”.) Also on the list and predating Wambaugh: Ed McBain’s “87th Precinct” novels. First one published in 1956, last one in 2005.
  - version_five 3y ago
    I've not read McBain, I'll have to take a look. I'm on the fence about Maigret. There is definitely an element of what I consider police procedural in there, though I agree they wouldn't be exemplars for the genre. What's the one where there is a killer, I think he ends up being some kind of "architect designer" and they get a female cop to lure him out somehow. That's almost the same story as Roseanna. On the other hand, in some of the books he just sits in a bar all day.
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    Do Sherlock Holmes stories not count?
    - Insanity 3y ago
      In spirit, I would agree they should count. But on a technicality, Holmes helps the police but is not part of the police.
    - kadoban 3y ago
      > It is a story of police brutality, racism, public unrest, systemic rot, poverty, and the seemingly everlasting tension between American police departments and the communities they are supposed to protect and serve. Doesn't exactly sound like the Sherlock Holmes I remember. Which is to say that despite both being centered around crime and mystery solving, they're really quite different.
    - rob74 3y ago
      Sherlock Holmes (and Miss Marple, Hercule Poirot and others) are the polar opposite of a "modern cop novel": > The criminals in classic crime novels generally have motives and make plans and think everything through in advance. The crime fighters in those books, on the other hand, generally solve every case. Wambaugh’s cops are faced with a starker reality. They are patrolmen. They don’t investigate murders. But this dichotomy is visible in most crime literature/media until today. For example, the "Law & Order" franchise (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_%26_Order_(franchise) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_%26_Order_(franchise)) is mostly police procedural, but in the "Criminal Intent" spin-off they went back to classic "detective stories".
      - Karellen 3y ago
        > For example, the "Law & Order" franchise [...] is mostly police procedural I think it's worth making more of a distinction between the different shows in the franchise. One thing I really like about "classic" Law & Order is that it's half police procedural, and half... not just courtroom drama, but the drama behind the courtroom drama. And it follows a case all the way through from discovery to conviction/acquittal. Whereas I'm not nearly as much of a fan of SVU, as it is mostly just another police procedural. (With the disturbing "unorthodox cops who have to bend the rules to get the job done" vibes, which really should have non-ironically gone out of fashion for good some time in the mid-'90s.) I'd not checked out Criminal Intent, because I was figured it would just be more like SVU, but if it's more of a "detective story" than "police procedural", I might try to find time to give it a shot.
    - mellosouls 3y ago
      No, I'm a massive Holmes fan but I think he fits almost into the superhero genre. While the more abstract elements of puzzle-cracking are brilliantly elaborated within a legal mystery framing in the Sherlock universe, I would say police procedures themselves are barely to be seen except where he benevolently tolerates or accedes to them at the request of others. Investigative rigor and procedure are common to both forms, but the police procedural itself has a considerably wider remit I think that even the classic lone wolf cop fits into in a way that types like Holmes and modern successors like Jack Reacher do not.
- ojbyrne 3y ago
  It should probably say “modern American cop novel.”
  - m463 3y ago
    I agree. Sort of like how Clint Eastwood redefined Westerns from the cleancut western hero to a more morally ambiguous unshaven guy with a different sort of charisma.
    - borroka 3y ago
      Sergio Leone and the writers of his movies (Leone, Vincenzoni, Di Leo etc.) redefined Westerns, Clint Eastwood acted in the movies that redefined the Western genre.
      - m463 3y ago
        You're right of course, yet I will say that Leone plus Clint Eastwood worked better than some of the other actors Leone chose, like Henry Fonda or Lee Van Cleef.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    Doesn't the word 'cop' do that already? It does for me anyway.
    - ojbyrne 3y ago
      I was going to say that, but a little googling showed me the word “cop” is not of American origin.
    - StrangeSound 3y ago
      I'm not sure "cop" has American origins. http://orvillejenkins.com/words/cops.html http://orvillejenkins.com/words/cops.html
      - Hunpeter 3y ago
Wistar 3y ago
Although I have searched to find any mention of Wambaugh’s correspondence with his first publisher, I have failed to find any mention of what was called the “World’s shortest letter,” or something like that. From memory I recall reading an account of Wambaugh having been invited to submit his first manuscript to a publisher and, after not hearing anything back, he sent a letter to them that consisted entirely of a single question mark typed on a sheet of paper. A few days later, he received a response that consisted of a single exclamation point.
- bombcar 3y ago
  I've seen that story a number of times, attributed to various people. https://www.countrylife.co.uk/country-life/wars-weddings-boiled-eggs-10-memorable-telegrams-ever-sent-174331 https://www.countrylife.co.uk/country-life/wars-weddings-boi... > This has been attributed to both Victor Hugo and Oscar Wilde. In both cases, the writers are said to have telegrammed their respective publishers to ask about sales of their latest published works. > In both cases, the telegram simply asked ‘?’. The publisher is said to have replied with an equally frugal ‘!’.
  - daniel-cussen 3y ago
    [dead]
tomcam 3y ago
The Choirboys is funny in ways you just can’t imagine seeing in a book these days. It’s a masterpiece, with a Shakespearean mix of comedy, tragedy, and hella good prose. The language is not remotely as sensitive as we expect these days: it’s not racist but everyone is more… frank than we are accustomed to. I’m in my 60s and it was already retrograde in Southern California when it was published. The cops in it sound like New Yorkers, not Angelenos.
WWWWH 3y ago
Any chemists around should read his 'Delta Star' set in the CalTech Chemistry Department. Apparently he was buddies with Harry Grey and spent some time around the school. Grey, the only non-fictional character in the book, spoke highly of his work ethic (something like 'he turned up to all of the classes, which is more than most of our students do').
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
causi 3y ago
You know it's funny; I've seen probably four or five HN submissions about "cop novels" over the years but for all my time spent in book stores and on the internet I have never seen one in person or heard someone talk about one outside of HN.
- coldtea 3y ago
  You haven't seen anybody talk about one of the most popular genres of fiction?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - RugnirViking 3y ago
    I've literally never heard of it either? I feel like your claim can't possibly be true
    - coldtea 3y ago
      Huh? "In the western world, crime fiction – mystery, thrillers, suspense, whodunnits, etc. – makes up somewhere between 25 and 40 percent of all fiction book sales." Famous figures in cop novel fiction include: Alex Cross (from author James Patterson, huge best sellers and several Hollywood movies made). Harry Bosch (Michael Connelly), over 20 best selling books and a TV series. Harry Hole (fictional cop) by Joe Nesbo, "More than 3 million copies of his novels had been sold in Norway as of March 2014; his work has been translated into over 50 languages, and by 2021 had sold some 50 million copies worldwide, making him the most successful Norwegian author of all time" - and a movie made with Fassbender as Hole. "In death" series, following policewoman Eve Dallas. dozens of books, estimated hundreds of millions books sold (seems a lot, but it's mentioned here: https://wordsrated.com/nora-roberts-statistics/ https://wordsrated.com/nora-roberts-statistics/ huge sales either way, including best-selling Kindle author) Jack Reacher by Lee Child (not a street cop, but ex-US Army Military Police investigator), huge sales, several movies. and many other series, including hugely popular non-english authors and their star cops like Inspector Salvo Montalbano, Commissioner Erlendur Sveinsson, Inspector Emilio Rico, Commissioner Jean-Baptiste Adamsberg, and at least 2-3 very popular series in every country (translated and sold internationally). Even the Chinese have their star cops (e.g. Chief Inspector Chen Cao). https://wordsrated.com/thriller-book-sales-stats/ https://wordsrated.com/thriller-book-sales-stats/ https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2018/apr/12/mystery-crime-fiction-bestselling-book-genre-sophie-hannah#:~:text=Crime%20sales%20of%20have%20increased,fiction%20books%20sold%20in%202017 https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2018/apr/12/myst....
hillsboroughman 3y ago
The modern cop novel was a formula popularized in England by Edgar Wallace already in the 1915-20 timeframe. His novels show great command of police procedure incl crime scene analysis, lab work, post mortem, ballistics, finger printing etc.. He is said to have written some 170 novels, not all of them were police thrillers. Later in life, he went to Hollywood and wrote screenplays. I guess his earlier work is not very well-known in the US. Just my 2c
jgalt212 3y ago
The Bernie Gunther series (mostly set in pre-WW2 Berlin) are great cop novels. https://berniegunther.com/ https://berniegunther.com/
- borroka 3y ago
  Philip Kerr was an extraordinary writer, very inventive and with a distinctive prose. One caveat: over the course of the BG series he became, in my opinion, a little too verbose, too good with words for the narrative need. But an excellent, excellent series that I intend to read again. PK also wrote an investigative trilogy set in the world of soccer, which is hugely entertaining. An outstanding author -- who sadly passed away way when too young -- who is not popular enough.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

73 points by background 3y ago

This says 1971, Martin Beck was earlier. I'd argue Maigret counts as well. The author mentions Chandler but I would never have considered those "police procedurals".

CharleFKane 3y ago
I enjoy the Wambaugh I’ve read, but I had some issues with this article. Version_five is right about Martin Beck. (I wouldn’t count Maigret or Chandler as “police procedurals”.) Also on the list and predating Wambaugh: Ed McBain’s “87th Precinct” novels. First one published in 1956, last one in 2005.
- version_five 3y ago
  I've not read McBain, I'll have to take a look. I'm on the fence about Maigret. There is definitely an element of what I consider police procedural in there, though I agree they wouldn't be exemplars for the genre. What's the one where there is a killer, I think he ends up being some kind of "architect designer" and they get a female cop to lure him out somehow. That's almost the same story as Roseanna. On the other hand, in some of the books he just sits in a bar all day.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  Do Sherlock Holmes stories not count?
  - Insanity 3y ago
    In spirit, I would agree they should count. But on a technicality, Holmes helps the police but is not part of the police.
  - kadoban 3y ago
    > It is a story of police brutality, racism, public unrest, systemic rot, poverty, and the seemingly everlasting tension between American police departments and the communities they are supposed to protect and serve. Doesn't exactly sound like the Sherlock Holmes I remember. Which is to say that despite both being centered around crime and mystery solving, they're really quite different.
  - rob74 3y ago
    Sherlock Holmes (and Miss Marple, Hercule Poirot and others) are the polar opposite of a "modern cop novel": > The criminals in classic crime novels generally have motives and make plans and think everything through in advance. The crime fighters in those books, on the other hand, generally solve every case. Wambaugh’s cops are faced with a starker reality. They are patrolmen. They don’t investigate murders. But this dichotomy is visible in most crime literature/media until today. For example, the "Law & Order" franchise (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_%26_Order_(franchise) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_%26_Order_(franchise)) is mostly police procedural, but in the "Criminal Intent" spin-off they went back to classic "detective stories".
    - Karellen 3y ago
      > For example, the "Law & Order" franchise [...] is mostly police procedural I think it's worth making more of a distinction between the different shows in the franchise. One thing I really like about "classic" Law & Order is that it's half police procedural, and half... not just courtroom drama, but the drama behind the courtroom drama. And it follows a case all the way through from discovery to conviction/acquittal. Whereas I'm not nearly as much of a fan of SVU, as it is mostly just another police procedural. (With the disturbing "unorthodox cops who have to bend the rules to get the job done" vibes, which really should have non-ironically gone out of fashion for good some time in the mid-'90s.) I'd not checked out Criminal Intent, because I was figured it would just be more like SVU, but if it's more of a "detective story" than "police procedural", I might try to find time to give it a shot.
  - mellosouls 3y ago
    No, I'm a massive Holmes fan but I think he fits almost into the superhero genre. While the more abstract elements of puzzle-cracking are brilliantly elaborated within a legal mystery framing in the Sherlock universe, I would say police procedures themselves are barely to be seen except where he benevolently tolerates or accedes to them at the request of others. Investigative rigor and procedure are common to both forms, but the police procedural itself has a considerably wider remit I think that even the classic lone wolf cop fits into in a way that types like Holmes and modern successors like Jack Reacher do not.
ojbyrne 3y ago
It should probably say “modern American cop novel.”
- m463 3y ago
  I agree. Sort of like how Clint Eastwood redefined Westerns from the cleancut western hero to a more morally ambiguous unshaven guy with a different sort of charisma.
  - borroka 3y ago
    Sergio Leone and the writers of his movies (Leone, Vincenzoni, Di Leo etc.) redefined Westerns, Clint Eastwood acted in the movies that redefined the Western genre.
    - m463 3y ago
      You're right of course, yet I will say that Leone plus Clint Eastwood worked better than some of the other actors Leone chose, like Henry Fonda or Lee Van Cleef.
- OJFord 3y ago
  Doesn't the word 'cop' do that already? It does for me anyway.
  - ojbyrne 3y ago
    I was going to say that, but a little googling showed me the word “cop” is not of American origin.
  - StrangeSound 3y ago
    I'm not sure "cop" has American origins. http://orvillejenkins.com/words/cops.html http://orvillejenkins.com/words/cops.html
    - Hunpeter 3y ago

Wistar 3y ago

Although I have searched to find any mention of Wambaugh’s correspondence with his first publisher, I have failed to find any mention of what was called the “World’s shortest letter,” or something like that. From memory I recall reading an account of Wambaugh having been invited to submit his first manuscript to a publisher and, after not hearing anything back, he sent a letter to them that consisted entirely of a single question mark typed on a sheet of paper. A few days later, he received a response that consisted of a single exclamation point.

bombcar 3y ago
I've seen that story a number of times, attributed to various people. https://www.countrylife.co.uk/country-life/wars-weddings-boiled-eggs-10-memorable-telegrams-ever-sent-174331 https://www.countrylife.co.uk/country-life/wars-weddings-boi... > This has been attributed to both Victor Hugo and Oscar Wilde. In both cases, the writers are said to have telegrammed their respective publishers to ask about sales of their latest published works. > In both cases, the telegram simply asked ‘?’. The publisher is said to have replied with an equally frugal ‘!’.
- daniel-cussen 3y ago
  [dead]

tomcam 3y ago

The Choirboys is funny in ways you just can’t imagine seeing in a book these days. It’s a masterpiece, with a Shakespearean mix of comedy, tragedy, and hella good prose. The language is not remotely as sensitive as we expect these days: it’s not racist but everyone is more… frank than we are accustomed to. I’m in my 60s and it was already retrograde in Southern California when it was published. The cops in it sound like New Yorkers, not Angelenos.

WWWWH 3y ago

Any chemists around should read his 'Delta Star' set in the CalTech Chemistry Department. Apparently he was buddies with Harry Grey and spent some time around the school. Grey, the only non-fictional character in the book, spoke highly of his work ethic (something like 'he turned up to all of the classes, which is more than most of our students do').

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

causi 3y ago

You know it's funny; I've seen probably four or five HN submissions about "cop novels" over the years but for all my time spent in book stores and on the internet I have never seen one in person or heard someone talk about one outside of HN.

coldtea 3y ago
You haven't seen anybody talk about one of the most popular genres of fiction?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- RugnirViking 3y ago
  I've literally never heard of it either? I feel like your claim can't possibly be true
  - coldtea 3y ago
    Huh? "In the western world, crime fiction – mystery, thrillers, suspense, whodunnits, etc. – makes up somewhere between 25 and 40 percent of all fiction book sales." Famous figures in cop novel fiction include: Alex Cross (from author James Patterson, huge best sellers and several Hollywood movies made). Harry Bosch (Michael Connelly), over 20 best selling books and a TV series. Harry Hole (fictional cop) by Joe Nesbo, "More than 3 million copies of his novels had been sold in Norway as of March 2014; his work has been translated into over 50 languages, and by 2021 had sold some 50 million copies worldwide, making him the most successful Norwegian author of all time" - and a movie made with Fassbender as Hole. "In death" series, following policewoman Eve Dallas. dozens of books, estimated hundreds of millions books sold (seems a lot, but it's mentioned here: https://wordsrated.com/nora-roberts-statistics/ https://wordsrated.com/nora-roberts-statistics/ huge sales either way, including best-selling Kindle author) Jack Reacher by Lee Child (not a street cop, but ex-US Army Military Police investigator), huge sales, several movies. and many other series, including hugely popular non-english authors and their star cops like Inspector Salvo Montalbano, Commissioner Erlendur Sveinsson, Inspector Emilio Rico, Commissioner Jean-Baptiste Adamsberg, and at least 2-3 very popular series in every country (translated and sold internationally). Even the Chinese have their star cops (e.g. Chief Inspector Chen Cao). https://wordsrated.com/thriller-book-sales-stats/ https://wordsrated.com/thriller-book-sales-stats/ https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2018/apr/12/mystery-crime-fiction-bestselling-book-genre-sophie-hannah#:~:text=Crime%20sales%20of%20have%20increased,fiction%20books%20sold%20in%202017 https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2018/apr/12/myst....

hillsboroughman 3y ago

The modern cop novel was a formula popularized in England by Edgar Wallace already in the 1915-20 timeframe. His novels show great command of police procedure incl crime scene analysis, lab work, post mortem, ballistics, finger printing etc.. He is said to have written some 170 novels, not all of them were police thrillers. Later in life, he went to Hollywood and wrote screenplays. I guess his earlier work is not very well-known in the US. Just my 2c

jgalt212 3y ago

The Bernie Gunther series (mostly set in pre-WW2 Berlin) are great cop novels. https://berniegunther.com/ https://berniegunther.com/

borroka 3y ago
Philip Kerr was an extraordinary writer, very inventive and with a distinctive prose. One caveat: over the course of the BG series he became, in my opinion, a little too verbose, too good with words for the narrative need. But an excellent, excellent series that I intend to read again. PK also wrote an investigative trilogy set in the world of soccer, which is hugely entertaining. An outstanding author -- who sadly passed away way when too young -- who is not popular enough.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]