6 ms·

In my opinion, their website is broken in some ways the old one wasn't, back when Mojang still owned the IP, and broken in new ways that couldn't have been poss

In my opinion, their website is broken in some ways the old one wasn't, back when Mojang still owned the IP, and broken in new ways that couldn't have been possible before. I've already migrated my account, but forgot about having done it. If you try to remigrate, it will tell you that you already have an account associated with the Microsoft account, and it will encourage you to buy it again? When you're logged in, the Get Minecraft button... also encourages you to buy the game again, instead of taking you to the download page. How do you screw this stuff up? How do you screw up account migration? Look at these other comments here. This is a technical audience. Those poor parents who aren't technical are going to end up rebuying these stupid copies for their kids because of Microsoft's incompetence. Edit: I'll take a minute to also share this related article I just posted. "Changes I Would Like To See in Game Development and Industry " - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35865390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35865390

pbhjpbhj 3y ago
>rebuying these stupid copies for their kids because of Microsoft's incompetence. I'm going with "because of Microsoft's purposeful design".
bombcar 3y ago
Very coincidentally convenient that their incompetence leads to MORE sales. Funny, that.
- jofla_net 3y ago
  Network effects/vendor lock-in are shockingly powerful, so much so that you can actively work to subvert your product when they are in your favor.
deelowe 3y ago
> How do you screw up account migration? I've always assumed this is just a dark pattern. There's no excuse.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  The excuse is simple: Microsoft is completely disinterested in maintaining two disjoint account management services (complete with all the security, auditing, and attack-surface headaches that entails). Same reason one's YouTube login is their Google login is their Blogger login.
  - Kye 3y ago
    Google's login situation is because they tried to turn everyone into a Google+ user whether they wanted to be or not. Very different histories.
    - shadowgovt 3y ago
      Not exactly. G+ was contemporary with / the spearhead for that initiative, but the desire to reify login was something Google was planning to do for awhile; they just used G+ as the focus project around which to pin the initiative. Nobody at Google was really thrilled with having three (four? five?) credential stacks, all with their own bespoke tooling, concept of what an "account" was, security stories, and administrative needs. (... the one thing that came out of G+ that has stuck around is infrastructure improvements. A lot of the stuff the G+ team wrote to support Google+ behind-the-scenes is still used at Google for other projects now).
      - Brian_K_White 3y ago
        And yet it is ridiculous that I have to respond to a 2fa on my phone just to watch youtube on my laptop, every. time. I have a paid yt account fine, but watching trivial videos is not in the same class with accessing my gmail, or managing my gmail, or even managing my own videos if I were a youtuber. I'm fine with being one identity (well no I'm not but pretend I am) but those are not all the same activity or class of activity.
        shadowgovt 3y ago
        Hm. I don't, and now I'm curious why. My login never asks me to 2FA on my regular devices.
progmetaldev 3y ago
They have other issues as well. I went to buy my son Minecraft: Dungeons as a gift, and after the purchase, it was associated with my Microsoft account. I was unable to gift the game to him, so had to purchase the game again while logged in under his Microsoft account. Nowhere did it state that the game would be associated with my account, and I wasn't even aware I was logged into my Microsoft account.
- andrewmcwatters 3y ago
  I'm so sorry to hear that. That's ridiculous.
  - progmetaldev 3y ago
    I appreciate it. My gaming PC died at the beginning of the COVID pandemic, but I have new parts to build another PC. I just have to take the time to switch my work PC (at home) with my home PC, and all the software development programs I use, and then I'll end up using my purchase to play with my son. I've setup Minecraft Java servers in the past, and have enjoyed Minecraft Java edition, so I'm hoping I like Minecraft: Dungeons and can make use of my extra purchase.
- R0flcopt3r 3y ago
  I had to buy the game as a gift, then type the product key in manually on the kids account, because for some reason it wouldn't send it as email... I also tried to buy the game as the kid, parental control blabla, I got a request that the kid wants the game, and when I went to pay for it as myself, on behalf of the kid, it wouldn't let me change the country from United States, so I couldn't enter a valid billing address... All this took hours, while the kid impatiently nags "can we play, can we play, can we play"...!! And then it's the /insane/ launch times to start playing... At the very least, once you're in the game (java edition) it all works very well with LAN multiplayer.
  - progmetaldev 3y ago
    I got into Minecraft a bit later, and when I purchased it, I got the Windows 10 Edition. I had to have a Microsoft account to play, so I was already set. Minecraft: Dungeons is a completely separate game, more of an isometric perspective. It looks fun, was just hoping that I didn't have to buy it myself until I had a PC to start playing on.
JLCarveth 3y ago
Multibillion/trillion dollar companies and broken websites seems all too common nowadays.
fnordpiglet 3y ago
Well, Sydney isn’t always the best coder but she tries.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Sydney was the best of us. Don't say bad things about her. It's not her fault she was owned by, and lobotomized by, a heartless corporation.
Dalewyn 3y ago
>How do you screw up account migration? Not the first rodeo; the MSN Messenger + Skype merge was concentrated janksimus maximus that played no small part in me ultimately dropping Skype all together. (I still use my Microsoft account, originally my Hotmail account, though.)
beebmam 3y ago
I never migrated my account, but it got migrated automatically. Worked fine for me.
adamors 3y ago
Just tried to migrate actually, and ended up on a > There's a temporary problem > There's a temporary problem with the service. Please try again. If you continue to get this message, try again later. page. My account wasn't created in Microsoft BUT I also no longer have the migrate button on the Mojang side and I'm prompted to buy it again.
TheFragenTaken 3y ago
To be honest, Microsoft is in general really clunky when it comes to auth. Azure is a forest of browser redirects, re-logins, wrong tenants. Teams doesn't do multi-tenancy ala Slack and Discord. School/work or personal account? You really shouldn't have to choose, just log the user in. If you can't do that, you've failed.
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  I think their oauth service is really decent and easy too use (comparatively, since oauth is its own hell in my opinion, I want to join the "basic auth isn't unsafe-club"). For a company that large, it really does login you to many websites if you authenticated at your own third party app of questionable origin. Not every site, but I think office and azure are covered (with corporate accounts at least, which are treated differently I belive). That said, I really, really dislike using such large auth providers because there are repercussion for anonymity and behavior spying. Microsoft doesn't need to know which services I use. I don't use my private MS account for anything, especially not for Windows. I wouldn't want to save user info for my webservices anymore, but if I have to I would recommend specialized auth providers like auth0. Don't give that to big tech too.
latexr 3y ago
> Those poor parents who aren't technical are going to end up rebuying these stupid copies for their kids because of Microsoft's incompetence. Sounds like a feature, from Microsoft’s point of view. Hanlon’s Razor¹ is a good rule of thumb but Microsoft is no stranger to dark patterns². ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern
- account42 3y ago
  > Hanlon’s Razor is a good rule of thumb No it never is when you are dealing with corporations. Even for individuals it only makes sense for people you have a pre-existing relationship with.
  - latexr 3y ago
    So when Google locks someone’s account, it’s never because their automated systems are being overzealous or misinterpreted data, but because Google is choosing to be deliberately evil towards that person? If the cashier at the supermarket rings up something wrong, do they have something against you specifically? More importantly, do you never make a mistake when interacting with a stranger? If we meet and you make an error during our interaction should I assume you did it on purpose to screw me over?
    - account42 3y ago
      A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.
      - 3y ago
panax 3y ago
>When you're logged in, the Get Minecraft button... also encourages you to buy the game again, instead of taking you to the download page Did a fresh install on Windows 10 this weekend since, you know, I had to upgrade to Win 10 since Microsoft dropped support for Win 8 earlier this year and hadn't installed MC on it yet. I spent probably about 10 minutes trying to find the download page through the site before finally clicking log in to find it. Then I ran the installer and after the installation finished I logged in but gave me an error something about that I wasn't logged into Windows Store or something. I've never run or logged into Windows Store and intend to never do that. I don't even think I have it installed right now. I tried finding a workaround for another 10 minutes before copying over an old installer from 2017 I had saved somewhere and that installer just worked flawlessly. I've now made a backup of that installer for long term use and just plan on using that one from now on... I think it would be prudent to download and archive older versions of the game, especially ones that let you run it offline, for long term use before they take those down, as well as older installers and install them in a container/image/VM as a backup. Just be careful running old versions of the server with vulnerabilities like log4j etc. Of course you can also run cracked versions but there's no real need when you already have access to these if you don't care about having the latest updates to MC and you already own those older versions if you had the Mojang account. >so many of you are already enjoying benefits Not enjoying it at all. I just want to use the Mojang account. Haven't used a single 'feature' of the Microsoft account that wasn't on the Mojang account. Beware when migrating, Microsoft will lock you out of your migrated account on first or second use and the only way to get it to unlock it is to receive an SMS... except it rejects a large proportion of SMS numbers. When I first migrated it worked the first day and the next time I logged in they locked me out of the account for no reason (I also only logged in from the same computer both times from the same IP address so not like there was any suspicious activity...). This has also been reported by many users. I spent about half a day trying to find an SMS service that I could use to unlock the account and none of them worked. As a security engineer, I find this to be a poor design pattern -- don't require or assume the user has access to SMS, or even a cell phone, or even any phone (even though I did, wanted to avoid using my personal SIM for it), although allowing the option of 2FA through a phone is still a good practice. Also allow users to use older insecure options if they really want to as long as the risks are made really clear (but don't make it the default either). edit: Looked at the original email when buying it from Mojang a decade ago and amazingly the links to download the launcher still work: https://s3.amazonaws.com/MinecraftDownload/launcher/Minecraft.exe (Windows) https://s3.amazonaws.com/MinecraftDownload/launcher/Minecraft.zip (Mac OS X) https://s3.amazonaws.com/MinecraftDownload/launcher/minecraft.jar (Linux)

pbhjpbhj 3y ago

>rebuying these stupid copies for their kids because of Microsoft's incompetence. I'm going with "because of Microsoft's purposeful design".

bombcar 3y ago

Very coincidentally convenient that their incompetence leads to MORE sales. Funny, that.

jofla_net 3y ago
Network effects/vendor lock-in are shockingly powerful, so much so that you can actively work to subvert your product when they are in your favor.

deelowe 3y ago

> How do you screw up account migration? I've always assumed this is just a dark pattern. There's no excuse.

shadowgovt 3y ago
The excuse is simple: Microsoft is completely disinterested in maintaining two disjoint account management services (complete with all the security, auditing, and attack-surface headaches that entails). Same reason one's YouTube login is their Google login is their Blogger login.
- Kye 3y ago
  Google's login situation is because they tried to turn everyone into a Google+ user whether they wanted to be or not. Very different histories.
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    Not exactly. G+ was contemporary with / the spearhead for that initiative, but the desire to reify login was something Google was planning to do for awhile; they just used G+ as the focus project around which to pin the initiative. Nobody at Google was really thrilled with having three (four? five?) credential stacks, all with their own bespoke tooling, concept of what an "account" was, security stories, and administrative needs. (... the one thing that came out of G+ that has stuck around is infrastructure improvements. A lot of the stuff the G+ team wrote to support Google+ behind-the-scenes is still used at Google for other projects now).
    - Brian_K_White 3y ago
      And yet it is ridiculous that I have to respond to a 2fa on my phone just to watch youtube on my laptop, every. time. I have a paid yt account fine, but watching trivial videos is not in the same class with accessing my gmail, or managing my gmail, or even managing my own videos if I were a youtuber. I'm fine with being one identity (well no I'm not but pretend I am) but those are not all the same activity or class of activity.
      - shadowgovt 3y ago
        Hm. I don't, and now I'm curious why. My login never asks me to 2FA on my regular devices.

progmetaldev 3y ago

They have other issues as well. I went to buy my son Minecraft: Dungeons as a gift, and after the purchase, it was associated with my Microsoft account. I was unable to gift the game to him, so had to purchase the game again while logged in under his Microsoft account. Nowhere did it state that the game would be associated with my account, and I wasn't even aware I was logged into my Microsoft account.

andrewmcwatters 3y ago
I'm so sorry to hear that. That's ridiculous.
- progmetaldev 3y ago
  I appreciate it. My gaming PC died at the beginning of the COVID pandemic, but I have new parts to build another PC. I just have to take the time to switch my work PC (at home) with my home PC, and all the software development programs I use, and then I'll end up using my purchase to play with my son. I've setup Minecraft Java servers in the past, and have enjoyed Minecraft Java edition, so I'm hoping I like Minecraft: Dungeons and can make use of my extra purchase.
R0flcopt3r 3y ago
I had to buy the game as a gift, then type the product key in manually on the kids account, because for some reason it wouldn't send it as email... I also tried to buy the game as the kid, parental control blabla, I got a request that the kid wants the game, and when I went to pay for it as myself, on behalf of the kid, it wouldn't let me change the country from United States, so I couldn't enter a valid billing address... All this took hours, while the kid impatiently nags "can we play, can we play, can we play"...!! And then it's the /insane/ launch times to start playing... At the very least, once you're in the game (java edition) it all works very well with LAN multiplayer.
- progmetaldev 3y ago
  I got into Minecraft a bit later, and when I purchased it, I got the Windows 10 Edition. I had to have a Microsoft account to play, so I was already set. Minecraft: Dungeons is a completely separate game, more of an isometric perspective. It looks fun, was just hoping that I didn't have to buy it myself until I had a PC to start playing on.

JLCarveth 3y ago

Multibillion/trillion dollar companies and broken websites seems all too common nowadays.

fnordpiglet 3y ago

Well, Sydney isn’t always the best coder but she tries.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
Sydney was the best of us. Don't say bad things about her. It's not her fault she was owned by, and lobotomized by, a heartless corporation.

Dalewyn 3y ago

>How do you screw up account migration? Not the first rodeo; the MSN Messenger + Skype merge was concentrated janksimus maximus that played no small part in me ultimately dropping Skype all together. (I still use my Microsoft account, originally my Hotmail account, though.)

beebmam 3y ago

I never migrated my account, but it got migrated automatically. Worked fine for me.

adamors 3y ago

Just tried to migrate actually, and ended up on a > There's a temporary problem > There's a temporary problem with the service. Please try again. If you continue to get this message, try again later. page. My account wasn't created in Microsoft BUT I also no longer have the migrate button on the Mojang side and I'm prompted to buy it again.

TheFragenTaken 3y ago

To be honest, Microsoft is in general really clunky when it comes to auth. Azure is a forest of browser redirects, re-logins, wrong tenants. Teams doesn't do multi-tenancy ala Slack and Discord. School/work or personal account? You really shouldn't have to choose, just log the user in. If you can't do that, you've failed.

raxxorraxor 3y ago
I think their oauth service is really decent and easy too use (comparatively, since oauth is its own hell in my opinion, I want to join the "basic auth isn't unsafe-club"). For a company that large, it really does login you to many websites if you authenticated at your own third party app of questionable origin. Not every site, but I think office and azure are covered (with corporate accounts at least, which are treated differently I belive). That said, I really, really dislike using such large auth providers because there are repercussion for anonymity and behavior spying. Microsoft doesn't need to know which services I use. I don't use my private MS account for anything, especially not for Windows. I wouldn't want to save user info for my webservices anymore, but if I have to I would recommend specialized auth providers like auth0. Don't give that to big tech too.

latexr 3y ago

> Those poor parents who aren't technical are going to end up rebuying these stupid copies for their kids because of Microsoft's incompetence. Sounds like a feature, from Microsoft’s point of view. Hanlon’s Razor¹ is a good rule of thumb but Microsoft is no stranger to dark patterns². ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern

account42 3y ago
> Hanlon’s Razor is a good rule of thumb No it never is when you are dealing with corporations. Even for individuals it only makes sense for people you have a pre-existing relationship with.
- latexr 3y ago
  So when Google locks someone’s account, it’s never because their automated systems are being overzealous or misinterpreted data, but because Google is choosing to be deliberately evil towards that person? If the cashier at the supermarket rings up something wrong, do they have something against you specifically? More importantly, do you never make a mistake when interacting with a stranger? If we meet and you make an error during our interaction should I assume you did it on purpose to screw me over?
  - account42 3y ago
    A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.
    - 3y ago

panax 3y ago

>When you're logged in, the Get Minecraft button... also encourages you to buy the game again, instead of taking you to the download page Did a fresh install on Windows 10 this weekend since, you know, I had to upgrade to Win 10 since Microsoft dropped support for Win 8 earlier this year and hadn't installed MC on it yet. I spent probably about 10 minutes trying to find the download page through the site before finally clicking log in to find it. Then I ran the installer and after the installation finished I logged in but gave me an error something about that I wasn't logged into Windows Store or something. I've never run or logged into Windows Store and intend to never do that. I don't even think I have it installed right now. I tried finding a workaround for another 10 minutes before copying over an old installer from 2017 I had saved somewhere and that installer just worked flawlessly. I've now made a backup of that installer for long term use and just plan on using that one from now on... I think it would be prudent to download and archive older versions of the game, especially ones that let you run it offline, for long term use before they take those down, as well as older installers and install them in a container/image/VM as a backup. Just be careful running old versions of the server with vulnerabilities like log4j etc. Of course you can also run cracked versions but there's no real need when you already have access to these if you don't care about having the latest updates to MC and you already own those older versions if you had the Mojang account. >so many of you are already enjoying benefits Not enjoying it at all. I just want to use the Mojang account. Haven't used a single 'feature' of the Microsoft account that wasn't on the Mojang account. Beware when migrating, Microsoft will lock you out of your migrated account on first or second use and the only way to get it to unlock it is to receive an SMS... except it rejects a large proportion of SMS numbers. When I first migrated it worked the first day and the next time I logged in they locked me out of the account for no reason (I also only logged in from the same computer both times from the same IP address so not like there was any suspicious activity...). This has also been reported by many users. I spent about half a day trying to find an SMS service that I could use to unlock the account and none of them worked. As a security engineer, I find this to be a poor design pattern -- don't require or assume the user has access to SMS, or even a cell phone, or even any phone (even though I did, wanted to avoid using my personal SIM for it), although allowing the option of 2FA through a phone is still a good practice. Also allow users to use older insecure options if they really want to as long as the risks are made really clear (but don't make it the default either). edit: Looked at the original email when buying it from Mojang a decade ago and amazingly the links to download the launcher still work: https://s3.amazonaws.com/MinecraftDownload/launcher/Minecraft.exe (Windows) https://s3.amazonaws.com/MinecraftDownload/launcher/Minecraft.zip (Mac OS X) https://s3.amazonaws.com/MinecraftDownload/launcher/minecraft.jar (Linux)