4 ms·

Top writers make significantly more (see, for example, the large paydays for Phoebe Waller-Bridge and Quinta Brunson). But everyone else makes significantly le

Top writers make significantly more (see, for example, the large paydays for Phoebe Waller-Bridge and Quinta Brunson). But everyone else makes significantly less. While pay scales have increased on a per-episode basis, TV show seasons are less than half as long as they were before, and streamers don't pay royalties, so absolute pay decreased substantially. For point of comparison: a friend who worked in the writer's room on a FOX broadcast TV show several years ago (5+ years ago) was able to buy a house with the salary from one season and the royalties for writing a single episode broadcast that season (out of approximately 20ish). She currently works on a streaming show for one of the major streaming services and her salary this year as the head writer for that 10-episode show is less than the royalties for that single broadcast episode, despite millions more viewers watching the streaming show.

gruez 4y ago
>But everyone else makes significantly less. While pay scales have increased on a per-episode basis, TV show seasons are less than half as long as they were before, and streamers don't pay royalties, so absolute pay decreased substantially. But if seasons are half as long, can't writers write twice as many seasons, canceling that effect out?
- ketzo 4y ago
  Only if you actually get a gig on another season in that same time. Writing is a very inconsistent job, and stability is really valuable. A contract that guarantees you for half the time, at the same rate, is a lot more uncertainty.
- gamblor956 4y ago
  No, shows actually require more work today. For example, Wednesday, is only 8 episodes but required 8 months of actual production. In comparison, Grey's Anatomy averages over 20 episodes a season (in its heyday, 27 episodes/season) but only required 6 months of production each season. (Writers who are part of the "writing room" are contracted to the show until production ends. They can write film scripts in their free time but can't work in another show's writer's room.) The problem is that everything these days is heavily serialized, and directors and studios are far more willing to demand last-minute script changes. Because of the nature and extent of serialization, this requires significant amounts of work--often more work than the original writing, because changes have to be propagated throughout the season.
  - labster 4y ago
    Writers don’t go to production any more. It’s all mini rooms these days.
    - voltaireodactyl 4y ago
      Which is part of what the strike is about — part of a union’s job is to ensure the next generation is as informed and familiar with the levers of power as the one that came before it. Mini rooms are one example of the tactic studios are using to isolate writers and reduce the union membership (and therefore bargaining power) as significantly as possible.
taway2142 4y ago
--- a friend who worked in the writer's room on a FOX broadcast TV show several years ago was able to buy a house with the salary from one season this seems to make the case that writers were previously overpaid way beyond normal americans, and perhaps salaries are regressing to what average americans make
- JustSomeNobody 4y ago
  > ... normal americans Normal Americans don't generate something that generates many millions of dollars.
  - wiredfool 4y ago
    And they also don't generally have order of magnitude changes in their earnings from year to year.
- omegaworks 4y ago
  >this seems to make the case that writers were previously overpaid What does it say about our society that the regression to the average no longer accommodates classic expectations of American life like homeownership.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    I would assume they meant home (or land) ownership in Southern California, which was not a classic expectation of American life.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    My reading is that they paid for the entire house with less than one year's work. That's a lot more money than the classic homeowner expectation.
    - jjk166 4y ago
      But it's a feast or famine deal - one year you make enough for a house, the next 5 years you are looking for another show to work on, and that's assuming you are at the top of your profession - a lot of people doing writer's work (such as writing spec scripts) have never had a gig, and even among those who do get a paying writing job many won't find a second. I don't know the numbers for TV writers, but 65% of people with a movie writing credit only ever get the one, and only 20% get 3 or more. Residuals might take the edge off, but if you're only expecting to see one solid payday a decade you better be getting enough to buy a house.
LegitShady 4y ago
phoebe waller bridge has a single credit of interest for writing, which is "no time to die", where she is one of 4 writers and doesn't have a story credit unlike the other three writers. The other writers include Neil Purvis and Robert Wade (who both have 20 years of bond film writing credits each). She won awards for Killing Eve which is a show that is "mid" in every way. Sometimes people get large paydays for reasons other than talented writing. If Phoebe Waller-Bridge is getting large paydays for writing its not because of her comprehensive work history and achievements.
- gamblor956 4y ago
  phoebe waller bridge has a single credit of interest for writing This says more about your tastes than your understanding of Hollywood. Ms. Waller-Bridge wrote 2 critically acclaimed TV shows which were hits for their respective distributors: Fleabag (an Amazon Video launch series), and Killing Eve (BBC). She also wrote several smaller series for the BBC, and co-wrote No Time to Die, and provided uncredited rewrites for Solo, Indiana Jones 5, and is currently working on another TV show for Amazon. For her work on both Fleabag and Killing Eve, she was nominated for outstanding writing by her peers (and won for Killing Eve). Taking into account the number of episodes she wrote for both of these series, she actually has more writing credits than her 3 credited NTTD co-writers. doesn't have a story credit unlike the other three writers A story credit is given to a writer that participated in writing the treatment for the film (i.e., the outline), in situations where a treatment is drafted before the script itself is written. A story credit is a lesser credit in Hollywood. Where there is overlap between the story by and screenplay by credits, it means that the original writers' first draft(s) weren't filmable and another writer had to be brought into salvage the script. Some writers will re-write enough things to get sole credit for the final script; others, like PWB, will make just the changes necessary to get it across the finish while still letting the original screenwriters get credited for their contributions.
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    >2 critically acclaimed TV shows I tried to watch them. My opinion is that they were critically acclaimed because the subject matter was popular or outrageous not necessarily because they were good. There aren't any sympathetic characters in fleabag - its a tale of a mentally unstable desperate neurotic woman as she goes from revolting situation to revolting situation through bad decisions she's mostly at fault for. It isn't funny. If you giggle when unlikable people talk about anal sex this may be for you. Killing eve was a tv show that embodies "mid" in every way, except its about lesbian/bisexual bait so it wins awards. >Solo, Indiana Jones 5, Solo was a bad movie and the first star wars film to actually lose money, and indiana jones 5 hasn't been released yet so I'm withholding judgement. >Taking into account the number of episodes she wrote for both of these series, she actually has more writing credits than her 3 credited NTTD co-writers. Writing 1000 episodes of those shows isn't comparable to a single good bond film. This is why quantity and quality are not the same. >A story credit is given to a writer that participated in writing the treatment for the film (i.e., the outline), in situations where a treatment is drafted before the script itself is written. A story credit is a lesser credit in Hollywood. Ya, the other writers have writing credits, and story credits, and 20 years of history writing bond movies. >Where there is overlap between the story by and screenplay by credits, it means that the original writers' first draft(s) weren't filmable and another writer had to be brought into salvage the script. https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/heres-how-phoebe-waller-bridge-polished-the-no-time-to-die-script-1202213218/ https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/heres-how-phoebe-... >“[I was asked to do] dialogue polishes and to offer things really,” she said. “It’s about just offering different alternatives.” >She went on to say “they did give me some scenes and then be like, can you write some alternatives for this or have another idea about where it could go in the middle or how it would end. And then I would just give them options and various scenes and then they would take what they want. But there was a lot people writing — the director [Cary Fukunaga] was a writer on it as well. And there’d been a few writers before.” They didn't bring her in to salvage the script at all. They brought her in to do polishes of dialogue and to give them some ideas about how things could go and they'd take what they wanted. What about this reads salvaging? She got the invited because one of the film's producers, Barbara Brocolli, invited her to contribute. in my opinion because they were looking to add female writing credits to the movie as the academy awards had suddenly introduced diversity requirements to be considered for awards and all the writers up to that point were men.

gruez 4y ago

>But everyone else makes significantly less. While pay scales have increased on a per-episode basis, TV show seasons are less than half as long as they were before, and streamers don't pay royalties, so absolute pay decreased substantially. But if seasons are half as long, can't writers write twice as many seasons, canceling that effect out?

ketzo 4y ago
Only if you actually get a gig on another season in that same time. Writing is a very inconsistent job, and stability is really valuable. A contract that guarantees you for half the time, at the same rate, is a lot more uncertainty.
gamblor956 4y ago
No, shows actually require more work today. For example, Wednesday, is only 8 episodes but required 8 months of actual production. In comparison, Grey's Anatomy averages over 20 episodes a season (in its heyday, 27 episodes/season) but only required 6 months of production each season. (Writers who are part of the "writing room" are contracted to the show until production ends. They can write film scripts in their free time but can't work in another show's writer's room.) The problem is that everything these days is heavily serialized, and directors and studios are far more willing to demand last-minute script changes. Because of the nature and extent of serialization, this requires significant amounts of work--often more work than the original writing, because changes have to be propagated throughout the season.
- labster 4y ago
  Writers don’t go to production any more. It’s all mini rooms these days.
  - voltaireodactyl 4y ago
    Which is part of what the strike is about — part of a union’s job is to ensure the next generation is as informed and familiar with the levers of power as the one that came before it. Mini rooms are one example of the tactic studios are using to isolate writers and reduce the union membership (and therefore bargaining power) as significantly as possible.

taway2142 4y ago

--- a friend who worked in the writer's room on a FOX broadcast TV show several years ago was able to buy a house with the salary from one season this seems to make the case that writers were previously overpaid way beyond normal americans, and perhaps salaries are regressing to what average americans make

JustSomeNobody 4y ago
> ... normal americans Normal Americans don't generate something that generates many millions of dollars.
- wiredfool 4y ago
  And they also don't generally have order of magnitude changes in their earnings from year to year.
omegaworks 4y ago
>this seems to make the case that writers were previously overpaid What does it say about our society that the regression to the average no longer accommodates classic expectations of American life like homeownership.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  I would assume they meant home (or land) ownership in Southern California, which was not a classic expectation of American life.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  My reading is that they paid for the entire house with less than one year's work. That's a lot more money than the classic homeowner expectation.
  - jjk166 4y ago
    But it's a feast or famine deal - one year you make enough for a house, the next 5 years you are looking for another show to work on, and that's assuming you are at the top of your profession - a lot of people doing writer's work (such as writing spec scripts) have never had a gig, and even among those who do get a paying writing job many won't find a second. I don't know the numbers for TV writers, but 65% of people with a movie writing credit only ever get the one, and only 20% get 3 or more. Residuals might take the edge off, but if you're only expecting to see one solid payday a decade you better be getting enough to buy a house.

LegitShady 4y ago

phoebe waller bridge has a single credit of interest for writing, which is "no time to die", where she is one of 4 writers and doesn't have a story credit unlike the other three writers. The other writers include Neil Purvis and Robert Wade (who both have 20 years of bond film writing credits each). She won awards for Killing Eve which is a show that is "mid" in every way. Sometimes people get large paydays for reasons other than talented writing. If Phoebe Waller-Bridge is getting large paydays for writing its not because of her comprehensive work history and achievements.

gamblor956 4y ago
phoebe waller bridge has a single credit of interest for writing This says more about your tastes than your understanding of Hollywood. Ms. Waller-Bridge wrote 2 critically acclaimed TV shows which were hits for their respective distributors: Fleabag (an Amazon Video launch series), and Killing Eve (BBC). She also wrote several smaller series for the BBC, and co-wrote No Time to Die, and provided uncredited rewrites for Solo, Indiana Jones 5, and is currently working on another TV show for Amazon. For her work on both Fleabag and Killing Eve, she was nominated for outstanding writing by her peers (and won for Killing Eve). Taking into account the number of episodes she wrote for both of these series, she actually has more writing credits than her 3 credited NTTD co-writers. doesn't have a story credit unlike the other three writers A story credit is given to a writer that participated in writing the treatment for the film (i.e., the outline), in situations where a treatment is drafted before the script itself is written. A story credit is a lesser credit in Hollywood. Where there is overlap between the story by and screenplay by credits, it means that the original writers' first draft(s) weren't filmable and another writer had to be brought into salvage the script. Some writers will re-write enough things to get sole credit for the final script; others, like PWB, will make just the changes necessary to get it across the finish while still letting the original screenwriters get credited for their contributions.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  >2 critically acclaimed TV shows I tried to watch them. My opinion is that they were critically acclaimed because the subject matter was popular or outrageous not necessarily because they were good. There aren't any sympathetic characters in fleabag - its a tale of a mentally unstable desperate neurotic woman as she goes from revolting situation to revolting situation through bad decisions she's mostly at fault for. It isn't funny. If you giggle when unlikable people talk about anal sex this may be for you. Killing eve was a tv show that embodies "mid" in every way, except its about lesbian/bisexual bait so it wins awards. >Solo, Indiana Jones 5, Solo was a bad movie and the first star wars film to actually lose money, and indiana jones 5 hasn't been released yet so I'm withholding judgement. >Taking into account the number of episodes she wrote for both of these series, she actually has more writing credits than her 3 credited NTTD co-writers. Writing 1000 episodes of those shows isn't comparable to a single good bond film. This is why quantity and quality are not the same. >A story credit is given to a writer that participated in writing the treatment for the film (i.e., the outline), in situations where a treatment is drafted before the script itself is written. A story credit is a lesser credit in Hollywood. Ya, the other writers have writing credits, and story credits, and 20 years of history writing bond movies. >Where there is overlap between the story by and screenplay by credits, it means that the original writers' first draft(s) weren't filmable and another writer had to be brought into salvage the script. https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/heres-how-phoebe-waller-bridge-polished-the-no-time-to-die-script-1202213218/ https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/heres-how-phoebe-... >“[I was asked to do] dialogue polishes and to offer things really,” she said. “It’s about just offering different alternatives.” >She went on to say “they did give me some scenes and then be like, can you write some alternatives for this or have another idea about where it could go in the middle or how it would end. And then I would just give them options and various scenes and then they would take what they want. But there was a lot people writing — the director [Cary Fukunaga] was a writer on it as well. And there’d been a few writers before.” They didn't bring her in to salvage the script at all. They brought her in to do polishes of dialogue and to give them some ideas about how things could go and they'd take what they wanted. What about this reads salvaging? She got the invited because one of the film's producers, Barbara Brocolli, invited her to contribute. in my opinion because they were looking to add female writing credits to the movie as the academy awards had suddenly introduced diversity requirements to be considered for awards and all the writers up to that point were men.