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I took my wife out to a fancy steakhouse over the weekend and remembered what "service" is supposed to be. Our waiter poured my wine, cut up our steak table sid

I took my wife out to a fancy steakhouse over the weekend and remembered what "service" is supposed to be. Our waiter poured my wine, cut up our steak table side and served us, cracked pepper over our salad, went above and beyond in every way to ensure that we were comfortable and satisfied. I gladly tipped him 20% on $300 and would do so again. On the other hand, I left $10 on top of a $50 takeout order at a local Italian place and the bored, empty-handed young waitress just sat there watching me while I struggled out the door with pizza boxes and a couple bags. I resented her for her smugness and entitlement. Plus the order was wrong, as I found out later. Why on Earth am I expected to hand money over to people who are doing literally nothing but processing my credit card for payment? I've worked in food service, where I learned how hard it is and to never disparage employees at the point of service, but I cannot wrap my head around this selfish mindset of sit there and do nothing and expect people to hand over cash.

prottog 3y ago
I always understood the rule as unless there's food being brought to you at a table with tableside service, you are not to tip. Feel free not to leave the $10 next time for your takeout order.
- polski-g 3y ago
  If I have to wait in line, I do not tip.
  - ricardobayes 3y ago
    As a programmer, I threw an exception here. If you have to wait in line to be seated for table service, what do you do?
    - AstralStorm 3y ago
      A proper restaurant will have a literal waiter (the name of the job comes from that) ask you to be seated reasonably quickly anyway. And if it's overfilled, inform you of that.
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
        > A proper restaurant will have a literal waiter (the name of the job comes from that) No, it comes from servants waiting for requests from their employers (“waiting on” their employers), not from them optimizing the experience of customers waiting in line.
    - flashgordon 3y ago
      Well then the tip depends on quality of (eventual) service no? And I'd even say one of the determinants of service quality would be how long you had to wait in line.
      - ricardobayes 3y ago
        Maybe, although in my experience in America you almost always need to wait in line, even for a steakhouse. In Europe, much less, in London a few restaurants but I don't recall ever needing to wait in other countries.
      - sharemywin 3y ago
        on top of most servers aren't paid real minimum wage. so there's a big difference between minimum wage and tipped minimum wage.
        flashgordon 3y ago
        So as a foreigner what I don't get tis shouldn't not getting paid the fair wages drive down demand for these kinds of jobs? Am I in the minority in beleiving that customers will pay what they are charged upfront instead of extra sneaky costs. (Btw I will definitely tip for exceptional service but I think bringing me food and not throwing it on the table is kinda bare minimum:) )
robopsychology 3y ago
In Vegas I was asked for a tip when buying smokes from a stand in a casino. Why do shop keepers at regular shops get tips?
- ricardobayes 3y ago
  They are free to ask and you're free to refuse
ricardobayes 3y ago
It's like that in Spain, tipping is not expected at all, it's a reward at best for exceptional service. Just bringing the food and checking on you is not exceptional, that's the job. But sadly, US-style tipping is being imported slowly and some touristic places will now "wait" to enter the amount on the card machine at the table.
Night_Thastus 3y ago
You're looking at it a bit backwards. This is not "employees are greedy, want money for nothing". This is a case of "employees barely paid enough to get food each week, survive off tips". People forget that minimum wage comes out to around $15k a year. Even $15 an hour is only $30k. In almost all of the country, that's not enough for the cheapest rent, upkeep on a cheap car, food, taxes and other bills. Excessive tips are the only way a lot of people working in the service industry survive at all. I hate it, it's a sucky system. I would much rather have their wages be higher and the base product go up a bit in price and then remove tipping from most of these industries altogether. But that's just not happening.
- deverly 3y ago
  I don’t know how much their wages are to calculate their pay discrepancy that their employers are cheating them nor do I have their income statements. The employers’ responsibility is being put on to the customers. And then the customers are the assholes for guessing wrong.
  - wrenky 3y ago
    Its not that employers are cheating them- Thats the job and what it pays. Most waiters/waitresses are payed below minimum wage and make up the difference with tips. Its something like $3/hr on average, its even accounted for in the tax code. Is this your fault that the industry as a whole legally shifts that responsibility onto the consumer? Definitely not! Does that make a person an asshole for knowingly paying less? Yes.
    - mikea1 3y ago
      > Most waiters/waitresses are payed below minimum wage and make up the difference with tips. It's slightly more complicated: hourly wage is the greater of ($3 + tips) or (standard minimum wage). So, the effective minimum wage is still the standard minimum wage.
    - deverly 3y ago
      And the difference in their pay and minimum wage is? And the difference between their pay and living wage is? Maybe the employee it’s well compensated? Again, the customer is asked to guess the restaurant’s payroll and make up the difference with the market wage. How does one know if they are paying too little? Or too much? Or just right? Maybe customers don’t want to play the guessing game. Pay a competitive livable wage and raise the prices on the menu for the customer to determine the value of the product and stop asking/begging for tips. Done!
flashgordon 3y ago
So I have started actively either saying no tip (on takeout orders) or actually taking my time (even muttering my thoughts) by pressing the "other amount" button and entering a very arbitrary but low amount. I am waiting for someone to ask me what I am doing so I can start my diatribe on "well I am not American so I don't get tipping. I thought pizza was X$ so what's with this. Aren't your employers paying your fair share? If not why aren't you revolting? Oh you are a family outfit?...". I have a whole tree of q and a prepared. I am sad no one has triggered the root! The only downside is I avoid going to the same place again Incase they remember me and decide to spit in my food or worse! By the way I will gladly pay more. I just don't want to be surprised by extra costs (not publicizing tax is another thing that irks me too)
CogitoCogito 3y ago
> On the other hand, I left $10 on top of a $50 takeout order at a local Italian place and the bored, empty-handed young waitress just sat there watching me while I struggled out the door with pizza boxes and a couple bags. Why did you leave a tip?

prottog 3y ago

I always understood the rule as unless there's food being brought to you at a table with tableside service, you are not to tip. Feel free not to leave the $10 next time for your takeout order.

polski-g 3y ago
If I have to wait in line, I do not tip.
- ricardobayes 3y ago
  As a programmer, I threw an exception here. If you have to wait in line to be seated for table service, what do you do?
  - AstralStorm 3y ago
    A proper restaurant will have a literal waiter (the name of the job comes from that) ask you to be seated reasonably quickly anyway. And if it's overfilled, inform you of that.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      > A proper restaurant will have a literal waiter (the name of the job comes from that) No, it comes from servants waiting for requests from their employers (“waiting on” their employers), not from them optimizing the experience of customers waiting in line.
  - flashgordon 3y ago
    Well then the tip depends on quality of (eventual) service no? And I'd even say one of the determinants of service quality would be how long you had to wait in line.
    - ricardobayes 3y ago
      Maybe, although in my experience in America you almost always need to wait in line, even for a steakhouse. In Europe, much less, in London a few restaurants but I don't recall ever needing to wait in other countries.
    - sharemywin 3y ago
      on top of most servers aren't paid real minimum wage. so there's a big difference between minimum wage and tipped minimum wage.
      - flashgordon 3y ago
        So as a foreigner what I don't get tis shouldn't not getting paid the fair wages drive down demand for these kinds of jobs? Am I in the minority in beleiving that customers will pay what they are charged upfront instead of extra sneaky costs. (Btw I will definitely tip for exceptional service but I think bringing me food and not throwing it on the table is kinda bare minimum:) )

robopsychology 3y ago

In Vegas I was asked for a tip when buying smokes from a stand in a casino. Why do shop keepers at regular shops get tips?

ricardobayes 3y ago
They are free to ask and you're free to refuse

ricardobayes 3y ago

It's like that in Spain, tipping is not expected at all, it's a reward at best for exceptional service. Just bringing the food and checking on you is not exceptional, that's the job. But sadly, US-style tipping is being imported slowly and some touristic places will now "wait" to enter the amount on the card machine at the table.

Night_Thastus 3y ago

You're looking at it a bit backwards. This is not "employees are greedy, want money for nothing". This is a case of "employees barely paid enough to get food each week, survive off tips". People forget that minimum wage comes out to around $15k a year. Even $15 an hour is only $30k. In almost all of the country, that's not enough for the cheapest rent, upkeep on a cheap car, food, taxes and other bills. Excessive tips are the only way a lot of people working in the service industry survive at all. I hate it, it's a sucky system. I would much rather have their wages be higher and the base product go up a bit in price and then remove tipping from most of these industries altogether. But that's just not happening.

deverly 3y ago
I don’t know how much their wages are to calculate their pay discrepancy that their employers are cheating them nor do I have their income statements. The employers’ responsibility is being put on to the customers. And then the customers are the assholes for guessing wrong.
- wrenky 3y ago
  Its not that employers are cheating them- Thats the job and what it pays. Most waiters/waitresses are payed below minimum wage and make up the difference with tips. Its something like $3/hr on average, its even accounted for in the tax code. Is this your fault that the industry as a whole legally shifts that responsibility onto the consumer? Definitely not! Does that make a person an asshole for knowingly paying less? Yes.
  - mikea1 3y ago
    > Most waiters/waitresses are payed below minimum wage and make up the difference with tips. It's slightly more complicated: hourly wage is the greater of ($3 + tips) or (standard minimum wage). So, the effective minimum wage is still the standard minimum wage.
  - deverly 3y ago
    And the difference in their pay and minimum wage is? And the difference between their pay and living wage is? Maybe the employee it’s well compensated? Again, the customer is asked to guess the restaurant’s payroll and make up the difference with the market wage. How does one know if they are paying too little? Or too much? Or just right? Maybe customers don’t want to play the guessing game. Pay a competitive livable wage and raise the prices on the menu for the customer to determine the value of the product and stop asking/begging for tips. Done!

flashgordon 3y ago

So I have started actively either saying no tip (on takeout orders) or actually taking my time (even muttering my thoughts) by pressing the "other amount" button and entering a very arbitrary but low amount. I am waiting for someone to ask me what I am doing so I can start my diatribe on "well I am not American so I don't get tipping. I thought pizza was X$ so what's with this. Aren't your employers paying your fair share? If not why aren't you revolting? Oh you are a family outfit?...". I have a whole tree of q and a prepared. I am sad no one has triggered the root! The only downside is I avoid going to the same place again Incase they remember me and decide to spit in my food or worse! By the way I will gladly pay more. I just don't want to be surprised by extra costs (not publicizing tax is another thing that irks me too)

CogitoCogito 3y ago

> On the other hand, I left $10 on top of a $50 takeout order at a local Italian place and the bored, empty-handed young waitress just sat there watching me while I struggled out the door with pizza boxes and a couple bags. Why did you leave a tip?