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The illegal thing about bribery is that you give money to an individual for them to do something on behalf of an organisation. Paying someone to do something is

The illegal thing about bribery is that you give money to an individual for them to do something on behalf of an organisation. Paying someone to do something isn't illegal, but you're harming the organisation by encouraging the individual to act differently than in the best interests of the organisation.

hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
Is bribery legal when the two parties are entirely private entities (not law enforcement, not publicly listed, etc)? Is it still illegal if you own the entity? Presumably it would often be tax fraud, but an intangible assets maybe not so much? Aren’t intangible assets and ‘horse trading’ the fundamental underpinnings of politics?
- OscarCunningham 3y ago
  As far as I know, the word 'bribery' is defined by the fact that the person you're paying has some duty to someone else. Otherwise it's just normal paying someone for something.
mannykannot 3y ago
In this analogy, it is the official demanding the bribe who corresponds to a blackmailer, and that is generally a crime. In many cases, a bribe is demanded in order to have done what should be done anyway. More generally, one cannot, in practice, blackmail someone over a harmless fact. This is so even if no one but the victim regards the fact as having any importance.
- OscarCunningham 3y ago
  For example a border officer could demand a bribe to let you into the country. In that case they are threatening not to let you in unless you pay them. But not letting you in is in fact illegal, since they have an obligation to their employer (the government) to let people in or not based on whatever criteria the government set, rather than their own interest. So they are in fact threatening you with something illegal, unlike blackmail where they have the legal right to reveal embarrassing information about you.
  - mannykannot 3y ago
    Point taken; your have improved your argument by basing it on the illegality of the bribe-taker's acts of omission or commission - though there is a third class of bribery (perhaps the most common of all), where the bribe-taker is legally allowed to exercise their own discretion, and in such cases, the bribe acceptance itself is the only illegal act by the bribe-taker.† This brings us right back to the central fallacy (the composition fallacy - thanks, cinq!) of the paper we are discussing. †Such as the recent college-admissions scandal in the US. That it is illegal, in some jurisdictions, to pay a bribe, is a point in your favor against the bribery analogy.

hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago

Is bribery legal when the two parties are entirely private entities (not law enforcement, not publicly listed, etc)? Is it still illegal if you own the entity? Presumably it would often be tax fraud, but an intangible assets maybe not so much? Aren’t intangible assets and ‘horse trading’ the fundamental underpinnings of politics?

OscarCunningham 3y ago
As far as I know, the word 'bribery' is defined by the fact that the person you're paying has some duty to someone else. Otherwise it's just normal paying someone for something.

mannykannot 3y ago

In this analogy, it is the official demanding the bribe who corresponds to a blackmailer, and that is generally a crime. In many cases, a bribe is demanded in order to have done what should be done anyway. More generally, one cannot, in practice, blackmail someone over a harmless fact. This is so even if no one but the victim regards the fact as having any importance.

OscarCunningham 3y ago
For example a border officer could demand a bribe to let you into the country. In that case they are threatening not to let you in unless you pay them. But not letting you in is in fact illegal, since they have an obligation to their employer (the government) to let people in or not based on whatever criteria the government set, rather than their own interest. So they are in fact threatening you with something illegal, unlike blackmail where they have the legal right to reveal embarrassing information about you.
- mannykannot 3y ago
  Point taken; your have improved your argument by basing it on the illegality of the bribe-taker's acts of omission or commission - though there is a third class of bribery (perhaps the most common of all), where the bribe-taker is legally allowed to exercise their own discretion, and in such cases, the bribe acceptance itself is the only illegal act by the bribe-taker.† This brings us right back to the central fallacy (the composition fallacy - thanks, cinq!) of the paper we are discussing. †Such as the recent college-admissions scandal in the US. That it is illegal, in some jurisdictions, to pay a bribe, is a point in your favor against the bribery analogy.